School OCI Data Forum

[drake]

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[lawschoollll]

Don't you need connections/ties to get secondary markets? So isn't saying M or V is better than P because of attracting firms from secondary markets kind of irrelevant for most people?

Who is saying M or V is better than P and based on what data?

[showNprove]

Who is saying M or V is better than P . . . ?

Everyone.

[Core]

Who is saying M or V is better than P . . . ?

Everyone.

No.

[showNprove]

Who is saying M or V is better than P . . . ?

Everyone.

No.

Yes.

[lawschoollll]

Who is saying M or V is better than P . . . ?

Everyone.

No.

The kid from UVA might not be the best source of unbiased opinion.

[bwv812]

.

[on_ne_sait_jamais]

I imagine the 224# doesn't include transfers... Damn Transfers

[rayiner]

I imagine the 224# doesn't include transfers... Damn Transfers

Duke keeps it's class size around 200 pre transfers (graduated 209 last year) so that number should include transfers.

[markymark]

Who is saying M or V is better than P . . . ?

Everyone.

No.

Yes.

I'm pretty sure you're confused, all the big posters/people with access to both sets of data show that P outperforms M and V for NYC biglaw at least.

[wiseowl]

Since this seems to have (ridiculously) become a major sticking point in this thread, everyone please submit working definitions for the following words:

Job:
Summer Associate:
Placed:
OCI:
Biglaw:
Data:
Official:
Shitlaw:

[UnitarySpace]

This guy seems to have seen Harvard's OCI numbers.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=119919

First sign this guy didnt know what he was talking about, which somehow went unmentioned in the thread, is that he uses "chance of getting a high paying job in nyc" to somehow approximate total hiring at Columbia and Harvard. Since, you know, there is a fence around nyc that prevents them from leaving or accepting jobs that dont pay a lot.

Well he got the CLS and NYU EIP/EIW numbers right.

[DerrickRose]

Since this seems to have (ridiculously) become a major sticking point in this thread, everyone please submit working definitions for the following words:

Job: Full-time employment
Summer Associate: A paying 2L job at a private firm
Placed: ?
OCI: Pre-arranged interviews that take place on the campus of the school you attend.
Biglaw: Any private firm with a 6-figure starting salary
Data: ?
Official: ?
Shitlaw: Anything that doesn't allow you to service your debt

[Black-Blue]

Job: Full time employment - not an internship or a part time job
Summer Associate: agree with above post
Placed: As a transitive verb (school x placed y): having the students at the school receive offers from a certain job or internship
OCI: agree with above post
Biglaw: (1) Strict definition: An NLJ 250 firm (one of the 250 biggest firms, although salaries not necessarily 100k starting salary), (2) Looser definition: a 100k+ starting salary (although can be at a small-law or midlaw firm)
Data: Information reported on this forum by various users
Official:
Shitlaw: (1) Practice area definition: practices such as domestic relations, insurance defense, personal injury, etc.; (2) money definition: private law firms that pay low salaries

[keg411]

Since this seems to have (ridiculously) become a major sticking point in this thread, everyone please submit working definitions for the following words:

Job: Full-time employment
Summer Associate: Paid summer job at Market-Paying or close-to-Market paying Law Firm
Placed: Job was obtained through school career services (i.e. not through connections, networking, etc.)
OCI: On Campus formal interview program
Biglaw: Market Paying job at Private Firm
Data: Reported information
Official: Formally sent by the school to the students
Shitlaw: Private law firms that pay low salaries and expect high billables; any and all "contract attorney" and "temporary" positions

[lawhawk]

Anybody else want to share? There are a lot of schools we haven't heard from...

[sundevil77]

You can delete the ASU number. It seemed high...and it was. The person giving me the number was looking at 2008 numbers (and I still think that # likely includes multiple offices and resume collects).

[Bosque]

Job: Full-time employment
Summer Associate: Summer employment at any place where the full time employees are called "Associates."
Placed: Not sure, don't use this one much. I guess the action of getting a job through OCI or an equivalent program.
OCI: Interviews set up by your school, usually involving Symplicity and a bidding system. Equivalent programs for specialties like PLIP are not refered to as OCI, but are essentially the same thing.
Biglaw: Any firm which pays over six figures to starting associates, although this boundry can be higher depending on the city. E.g., in New York it would be closer to 160k, while in Dallas it might be closer to 100K.
Data: Context? Information I guess.
Official: Again, context?
Shitlaw: Undesirable private practice jobs, i.e., ambulance chasers and document review temp gigs. Government and nonprofit work might sometimes pay like Shitlaw, but it is different.

[romothesavior]

Shitlaw: (1) Practice area definition: practices such as domestic relations, insurance defense, personal injury, etc.;

Not sure why these are "shitlaw" necessarily. Depends a lot on the firm.

[Bosque]

Shitlaw: (1) Practice area definition: practices such as domestic relations, insurance defense, personal injury, etc.;

Not sure why these are "shitlaw" necessarily. Depends a lot on the firm.

Which is why I said "ambulance chaser" instead of "personal injury." A lot of really good firms do some personal injury stuff, especially in smaller markets. But they don't go around handing out buisness cards in hospitals and working the bare minimum on as many cases as they can in the hopes that one will pan out big for them.

[Anonymous User]

I don't want to reveal who I am, but I can say that University of Kentucky has 35 OCIs, of which 30 are firms. This does not include multiple locations, and many of the firms are hiring for at least 2-4 locations. This also does not include resume collections.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if this is the thread where this belongs but:

Top 1/3 at a T25, secondary journal. Bid on 30 firms and got 5 preselects (plus 4 alternates). 2 in the primary market of my school's graduates, and 3 in secondary markets, despite a lack of personal ties. Found that interesting.

[RVP11]

Don't you need connections/ties to get secondary markets? So isn't saying M or V is better than P because of attracting firms from secondary markets kind of irrelevant for most people?

You don't necessarily need ties for secondary markets. It depends on your school and it depends on the market.

Attending UVA or Michigan can be a "tie" in itself to many secondary markets.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if this is the thread where this belongs but:

Top 1/3 at a T25, secondary journal. Bid on 30 firms and got 5 preselects (plus 4 alternates). 2 in the primary market of my school's graduates, and 3 in secondary markets, despite a lack of personal ties. Found that interesting.

good work. i'm top 10-15%, T25, law review. FOUR preselects.

[270910]

Not sure if this is the thread where this belongs but:

Top 1/3 at a T25, secondary journal. Bid on 30 firms and got 5 preselects (plus 4 alternates). 2 in the primary market of my school's graduates, and 3 in secondary markets, despite a lack of personal ties. Found that interesting.

good work. i'm top 10-15%, T25, law review. FOUR preselects.

This is my new official response to any thread where somebody wonders if they should take a full ride at a lower ranked school or pay sticker for a T14.