NY to 200k?! Forum

[Anonymous User]

Maybe Hogan's corporate group would be devastated if they didn't match, but it's worth remembering that Covington and Hogan are HUGE in DC, like 400+ associates or something, whereas the Skaddens and Gibsons of the world I think are 100-200 in DC, so it's not like all the DC firm associates could flee to DC outposts of national firms if/when their employers cheap out and refuse to match.

But they may flee to other markets. I guess some people can be that dead-set on DC, but there is definitely a nonnegligible number of people who would choose, for example, S&C in NY rather than Hogan or Cov DC if there is actually a $15k difference in compensation. I would be shocked if at least Cov did not match--it ultimately just toes the median line despite grumbling about it.

I am skeptical that a single person exists who would choose Hogan/Covington/Big DC Firm over S&C NY/Big NY Firm if compensation were equal, but who also would choose the NY firm if they paid $15k more a year before taxes and without any COL adjustments.

[Anonymous User]

I’m 98% positive this Skadden thing is a flame or a remote pizza party for those annualizing 3K hours or more, but I’m holding out hope

[Anonymous User]

I’m 98% positive this Skadden thing is a flame or a remote pizza party for those annualizing 3K hours or more, but I’m holding out hope

Yea kinda late in the day. Maybe there were plans to do something but scuppered given Dpw raises.

[Anonymous User]

I am skeptical that a single person exists who would choose Hogan/Covington/Big DC Firm over S&C NY/Big NY Firm if compensation were equal, but who also would choose the NY firm if they paid $15k more a year before taxes and without any COL adjustments.

I know people who were debating between NY and DC firms based on more minute financial criteria than that.

[Anonymous User]

I’m 98% positive this Skadden thing is a flame or a remote pizza party for those annualizing 3K hours or more, but I’m holding out hope

If it's a flame the partners are in on it and trolling associates, or like dozens of skadden associates have all read TLS and are falling for the flame while also making up stories to one another about discussions they've personally had with partners..

[Anonymous User]

Covington firm chair just committed to matching market once it settles.

[Anonymous User]

yawn, another slow day it seems

[Anonymous User]

Covington firm chair just committed to matching market once it settles.

What market did CovingTTTon commit to matching?

[Anonymous User]

Covington firm chair just committed to matching market once it settles.

What market did CovingTTTon commit to matching?

NY market.

[Anonymous User]

Covington confirms they will match market, but will wait for the market to settle (so waiting to see if other firms raise DPW).

Source: A brave summer associate asking in a roundtable with Chair of Covington’s Management Committee.

[Anonymous User]

Covington confirms they will match market, but will wait for the market to settle (so waiting to see if other firms raise DPW).

Source: A brave summer associate asking in a roundtable with Chair of Covington’s Management Committee.

If true, I can't believe the summers scooped actual associates on this. JFC. (Anon because I'm a Cov associate.)

[Bosque]

I am skeptical that a single person exists who would choose Hogan/Covington/Big DC Firm over S&C NY/Big NY Firm if compensation were equal, but who also would choose the NY firm if they paid $15k more a year before taxes and without any COL adjustments.

I know people who were debating between NY and DC firms based on more minute financial criteria than that.

That sounds like these people have never been to at least one of those cities, if not both.

[Anonymous User]

I am skeptical that a single person exists who would choose Hogan/Covington/Big DC Firm over S&C NY/Big NY Firm if compensation were equal, but who also would choose the NY firm if they paid $15k more a year before taxes and without any COL adjustments.

I know people who were debating between NY and DC firms based on more minute financial criteria than that.

That sounds like these people have never been to at least one of those cities, if not both.

The people in question have lived in both.

[Bosque]

I am skeptical that a single person exists who would choose Hogan/Covington/Big DC Firm over S&C NY/Big NY Firm if compensation were equal, but who also would choose the NY firm if they paid $15k more a year before taxes and without any COL adjustments.

I know people who were debating between NY and DC firms based on more minute financial criteria than that.

That sounds like these people have never been to at least one of those cities, if not both.

The people in question have lived in both.

Then I queston the people in question's decision making skills.

(Which to be clear, don't want to turn this into a DC v. NYC debate. I just find it hard to believe anyone would have a small enough difference in preference that a tiny difference in compensation would be the deciding factor. Usually found people pretty clearly prefer one or the other.)

[Anonymous User]

Covington confirms they will match market, but will wait for the market to settle (so waiting to see if other firms raise DPW).

Source: A brave summer associate asking in a roundtable with Chair of Covington’s Management Committee.

If true, I can't believe the summers scooped actual associates on this. JFC. (Anon because I'm a Cov associate.)

As a fellow summer in that meeting, can confirm the commitment to match.

[Anonymous User]

Covington confirms they will match market, but will wait for the market to settle (so waiting to see if other firms raise DPW).

Source: A brave summer associate asking in a roundtable with Chair of Covington’s Management Committee.

If true, I can't believe the summers scooped actual associates on this. JFC. (Anon because I'm a Cov associate.)

Not just Cov. An SA apparently scooped WSGR, see below. Gotta love that blustery self-confidence.

Wilson Sonsini will match whatever market rate is. Can confirm from the summer associate who asked the managing partner during orientation.

[Anonymous User]

Mayer Brown match

(Very interesting because they’re usually slow to match)

[Anonymous User]

When I was a law student, I was pretty excited to see raises from 160K to 180K to 190K...now while I definitely like more money, the raise doesn't excite me at all. Like a few hundred bucks more a month...for the asaps and all-nighters and 250 billable hrs, while charging clients this much for an hour of my time?

And this is why people are still leaving. The actual thing that would improve retention especially for mid-level and senior associates (but which firms don't want to do because it would affect their profitability), is to provide associates with a clear path to equity partnership that they could at least follow and understand rather than making it an opaque and confusing process that feels like a mix of Game of Thrones and a lottery. People don't put up with biglaw for an extra $800 per month after taxes when average PPP is $4m. It also wouldn't be such a bad idea to, you know, not work people to death to fill the profits of a partnership that, as things currently stand, they realize they have almost no chance of joining.

Even with a 100% contractually binding guarantee of partnership, they'd still lose a decent amount of people who just don't want to live that biglaw lifestyle anymore.

To be fair, there are probably different incentives at play depending on where at attorneys are in their career path. For juniors and midlevels, many of whom aren't necessarily going to stay in biglaw forever, more money straight up probably does the trick -- it gets that marginal extra 6 months or year or two years. But for more senior associates I think a lot of the attrition comes from just being burned out by the prospect of doing this forever without a clear path; more money is always nice but is going from 500k all-in to 520k all-in that meaningful for a 9th year associate? Not really. If biglaw cared that much about long-term attrition they'd have to address both problems. The open secret of course is that they don't really (so far) and that in ordinary times attrition is built into the model; it's only during extraordinary times like COVID and its aftermath that the partnerships are forced to get off their collective assess and try to figure out what to do to keep people in the face of extraordinary departures (and profits).

[Anonymous User]

No movement from Cravath is very good at this point IMO. Makes me think they are waiting to see if another firm comes over the top of DPW before coming over the top themselves to settle the market.

[Anonymous User]

I’m 98% positive this Skadden thing is a flame or a remote pizza party for those annualizing 3K hours or more, but I’m holding out hope

For billing 100+ hours of pro bono they gave me a small, stone cutting board for cheese that had a "SKADDEN" inlay. It was already broken in two pieces when I took it out of the packaging, so I used the stone chunk as a door stopper. Oh the memories.

[Anonymous User]

No movement from Cravath is very good at this point IMO. Makes me think they are waiting to see if another firm comes over the top of DPW before coming over the top themselves to settle the market.

Cravath to 210 has a very nice ring to it and I could see that happening especially since they've taken flack in the past couple comp rounds in COVID for not setting the market any longer. Keep in mind that means you're pushing 8th years to probably close to 400 base (which is well deserved considering their profitability).

[Anonymous User]

As the Skadden annon who previously said I hadn't heard of anything, I do think something is up. Partner I work for just asked if a Friedman video had been sent to associates today, to which I replied no. This person would not mention this if it were a typical return-to-office update or something similar.

[Anonymous User]

Skadden to 205k from what I understand.

[Anonymous User]

Skadden to 205k from what I understand.

LMAO if this is the big Skadden news after all the Skadden associate handwringing ITT about special retention bonuses etc.

[Anonymous User]

Covington confirms they will match market, but will wait for the market to settle (so waiting to see if other firms raise DPW).

Source: A brave summer associate asking in a roundtable with Chair of Covington’s Management Committee.

If true, I can't believe the summers scooped actual associates on this. JFC. (Anon because I'm a Cov associate.)

As a fellow summer in that meeting, can confirm the commitment to match.

Yeah sorry but I ain't buying it. I'll believe an SA matched and that that's how the Chair answered, but sounds like a wishy-washy response. This is the same firm that in 2018 proudly declared that there's the "NY Market" and the "DC Market" and don't you dare think they are equal. Of course they did eventually match the real market, and maybe they've learned their lesson and won't pull the same stunt again, who knows, but I'll believe it when I see it.