New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

[Danger Zone]

I seriously can never tell when people want stuff by (especially when they email me late at night/after I've left the office). Asking is getting old and I feel it like it makes me sound like I'm lazy. Ugh.

Same, I was just thinking about this when someone called me at 7 last night and gave me an assignment. Like, I'll do it tonight I guess, but... do I have to?

[PennBull]

Asking should never get old and you shouldn't have to worry about being lazy. I often push back when they say they want stuff that night.

[patentlitigatrix]

I seriously can never tell when people want stuff by (especially when they email me late at night/after I've left the office). Asking is getting old and I feel it like it makes me sound like I'm lazy. Ugh.

Same, I was just thinking about this when someone called me at 7 last night and gave me an assignment. Like, I'll do it tonight I guess, but... do I have to?

If someone doesn't otherwise tell you, I wouldn't be afraid to ask. A simple "when would you like this by?" would do. No reason to assume that the answer is "now" when it could very well be "next week." As someone who assigns work, I try to remember to say when I want something by, but sometimes I forget.

Even better, make a proposal of when you will get something done, particularly if you have a sense of when the final product is due. Calculate back from that, building in time for sr.assoc/partner/client review, cite-checking, etc.

[Danger Zone]

Good to know

[fats provolone]

i usually propose a time

like is tuesday AM OK?

if you just ask "when do you need this by" you're risking an answer that is some variant of "asap"

[Desert Fox]

[fats provolone]

Something that seems sorta time sensitve - propose time

something that seems ASAP - ask

something that seems not time sensetive - just assume whenever. Otherwise you set a time and then something else comes up and assfucks yea.

work halfheartedly on project until partner asks for eta, then propose time

[patentlitigatrix]

i usually propose a time

like is tuesday AM OK?

if you just ask "when do you need this by" you're risking an answer that is some variant of "asap"

At my old firm, people would say this all the f*cking time, even if you proposed a time. Terrible, particularly when you when drill down and find out "ASAP" actually meant "in the next two weeks."

[PennBull]

ah but you guys are lit, right? so ASAP can be a total fuckery because you don't know how long they anticipate it taking

[rpupkin]

ah but you guys are lit, right? so ASAP can be a total fuckery because you don't know how long they anticipate it taking

I'm not seeing the connection between your observation and lit.

[PennBull]

ah but you guys are lit, right? so ASAP can be a total fuckery because you don't know how long they anticipate it taking

I'm not seeing the connection between your observation and lit.

My understanding is that lit projects often are larger and require many more hours. So an ASAP request can be a big fucking ask. To a partner/tyrannical midlevel, their ASAP request could mean a week.

In transactional, ASAP has never meant anything more than "by tonight" or "first thing in the morning", and the work almost always can be completed in that timeframe.

[rpupkin]

ah but you guys are lit, right? so ASAP can be a total fuckery because you don't know how long they anticipate it taking

I'm not seeing the connection between your observation and lit.

My understanding is that lit projects often are larger and require many more hours. So an ASAP request can be a big fucking ask. To a partner/tyrannical midlevel, their ASAP request could mean a week.

In transactional, ASAP has never meant anything more than "by tonight" or "first thing in the morning", and the work almost always can be completed in that timeframe.

I understand. That's a fair point. For what it's worth, I haven't gotten many "I want this ASAP" for something like a long brief or motion. Usually, you know what the filing date is, so you can work backwards from that and propose a date if the partner hasn't provided one.

[Desert Fox]

[Killingly]

I once got something at night, assumed it had to be done, did it, sent it and then got "oh, you didn't have to do this tonight" back.

Thanks. Super useful.

[krads153]

The "you'd just waste your time anyway" associates are the biggest uncle toms.

There are associates who actually say that?

Yes, usually they are single with no hobbies or talents....it doesn't even make any sense. If it's your own business, I can understand wanting to invest a lot of time, since you'd reap the benefits. What are you getting out of working to death as a salaried employee with no shares and a like 2% shot at even making partner? These people should just go get a relationship/hobby. And if your only goal in life is to make lots of money, you're in the wrong profession. The vast, vast majority of lawyers are not rich. Go open your own business or go into finance if you want a better shot at making lots of money.

[20160810]

I mean one of two things is going to happen:

A.) You ask when something is needed (or propose a time, or whatever) and feel however that makes you feel or
B.) You get caught with your pants down because pathern needs it and it isn't done

Option A seems best.

[rpupkin]

I mean one of two things is going to happen:

A.) You ask when something is needed (or propose a time, or whatever) and feel however that makes you feel or
B.) You get caught with your pants down because pathern needs it and it isn't done

Option A seems best.

There's at least one other option:

C.) Partner forgets about assignment because he didn't really need it in the first place and he forgot about it.

With certain partners, this is not uncommon.

[fats provolone]

I mean one of two things is going to happen:

A.) You ask when something is needed (or propose a time, or whatever) and feel however that makes you feel or
B.) You get caught with your pants down because pathern needs it and it isn't done

Option A seems best.

There's at least one other option:

C.) Partner forgets about assignment because he didn't really need it in the first place and he forgot about it.

With certain partners, this is not uncommon.

yea this move can pay dividends especially if it's an assignment you could do quickly if called on it

[20160810]

I mean one of two things is going to happen:

A.) You ask when something is needed (or propose a time, or whatever) and feel however that makes you feel or
B.) You get caught with your pants down because pathern needs it and it isn't done

Option A seems best.

There's at least one other option:

C.) Partner forgets about assignment because he didn't really need it in the first place and he forgot about it.

With certain partners, this is not uncommon.

yea this move can pay dividends especially if it's an assignment you could do quickly if called on it

"Brief 15 cases on this tangential issue that might not actually come up."

[patentlitigatrix]

Do people at law firms actually brief cases and write many memos?

[rpupkin]

Do people at law firms actually brief cases and write many memos?

Brief cases? Not really. Depending on what you're working on and what the partner/client wants, you may be asked to summarize a line of cases. That's kind of like briefing, I guess.

In my experience, long memos aren't common but clients sometimes want them. Usually, you're just putting a few paragraphs of research and analysis into an email.

[Anonymous User]

Do people at law firms actually brief cases and write many memos?

Government employee here, and we basically brief cases. Every few months we have someone go and look at all the recent appellate decisions in our area of law and summarize them. We don't really write that many memos though. A lot of our work is cut and paste (I can see why people say law firm jobs make people better writers than government jobs do) because our volume is so high.

[Anonymous User]

If you do bad substantive work you will get a much worse reputation and piss ppl off much more bc they actually have to do work to fix your shit

I think the concept of what is good substantive work can be so nebulous at times that bad lawyers will think your argument is bad because of dumb things like typos rather than the merits of said arguments.

This. I work for some people where I could literally make up what the cases say and they would have no idea. But spot a typo - especially the day of the filing - and you'll get a sharp call.

[fats provolone]

u guys need better bosses

[patentlitigatrix]

u guys need better bosses

Ha, yes they do. Experienced a law firm with generally good senior attorneys, and one with generally bad senior attorneys. Good meaning intelligent, insightful, clear, and respectful of associates' time. Bad meaning missing a good many of those features. It obviously really influenced how much I liked practicing. At one I love it, and the other I hated it. I always wonder if some people inherently don't like practicing, or if the parters/sr. assoc they work with are just terrible.