Columbia EIP 2014 Forum

[Anonymous User]

I went to Marsha Diamond and several law students disagreed with the bidding advice she gave me.

I've also heard good things about her beforehand though.

Maybe it's an echo chamber effect and her advice isn't that great, or maybe her advice was solid and law students don't know anything.

Basically I have no answers for anyone, much less myself.

Marsha Diamond told someone I know that the top firms would not have a problem pushing CBs to September, so...there was that.

[jbagelboy]

So which counselors are the good ones (or the least bad)? I had some general interview questions but it's not worth it if the net result is negative.

June Su suggested that I not use all of my bids.

Wth? How did she rationalize giving that sort of advice??

Unbelievable.

I've heard Marsha Diamond is good.

I actually thought June was decent (obviously cautious, but that's the point of OCS). She also said I didn't need to use all my bids, and I think that made sense in context, although I still will. She definitely didn't give advise nearing the patently ridiculous statements posted ITT

[Anonymous User]

I went to Marsha Diamond, and several law students disagreed with the bidding advice she gave me.

I've also heard good things about her beforehand though.

Maybe it's an echo chamber effect and her advice isn't that great, or maybe her advice was solid and law students don't know anything.

Basically I have no answers for anyone, much less myself.

Yeah. I think a large part of how we assess their advice has to do with personal preferences though (granted OCS does give some genuinely shit advice- see June Su). If you're more of a risk taker, you might not like the advice that an OCS gives if she's more risk averse than you, and if you're more risk averse, an OCS counselor's advice might seem overly optimistic.

But OP I think if you just want answers to questions about interviewing then Marsha should be fine.

[jbagelboy]

Also, just to clarify, once we've assigned bid #'s to the firms and uploaded the appropriate resume, we're done right? there's no final confirmatory step to make sure OCS puts them in?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Lois Jeffers was pretty good. I can at least say I never heard some of the terrible things others have heard on here.

She was the one who said usually only Kent people bid on CA firms, just as an FYI. I dunno though, maybe she was having an off day.

[Anonymous User]

Lois Jeffers was pretty good. I can at least say I never heard some of the terrible things others have heard on here.

She was the one who said usually only Kent people bid on CA firms, just as an FYI. I dunno though, maybe she was having an off day.

I still can't believe that someone from OCS said that. There are probably less than 5 Kents trying to go to CA.

[Anonymous User]

Do we need to prepare references going into EIP?
I didn't see any firm require it, but just wondering.

[Anonymous User]

Do we need to prepare references going into EIP?
I didn't see any firm require it, but just wondering.

Apparently Convington is known for calling all references.

[Anonymous User]

Do we need to prepare references going into EIP?
I didn't see any firm require it, but just wondering.

Arnold & Porter and Covington ask for a list of references, so if you're bidding them I would.

Wilmer, White & Case, Simpson Thacher ask for a writing sample, Cravath asks for UG grades, ect. Some others ask for cover letters, which is the most irritating.

ETA: Munger also asks for references.

[Anonymous User]

Do we need to prepare references going into EIP?
I didn't see any firm require it, but just wondering.

Arnold & Porter and Covington ask for a list of references, so if you're bidding them I would.

Wilmer, White & Case ask for a writing sample, Cravath asks for UG grades, ect. Some others ask for cover letters, which is the most irritating.

Sorry about confusion, I meant none of the firms I'm bidding on requires a list of references on Symplicity. I was wondering if I should have one nonetheless just in case.

[Anonymous User]

Do we need to prepare references going into EIP?
I didn't see any firm require it, but just wondering.

Arnold & Porter and Covington ask for a list of references, so if you're bidding them I would.

Wilmer, White & Case ask for a writing sample, Cravath asks for UG grades, ect. Some others ask for cover letters, which is the most irritating.

Sorry about confusion, I meant none of the firms I'm bidding on requires a list of references on Symplicity. I was wondering if I should have one nonetheless just in case.

Really can't hurt. I've heard former employer, one law professor, and 1L employer are the norm.

[Anonymous User]

Do we need to prepare references going into EIP?
I didn't see any firm require it, but just wondering.

Arnold & Porter and Covington ask for a list of references, so if you're bidding them I would.

Wilmer, White & Case ask for a writing sample, Cravath asks for UG grades, ect. Some others ask for cover letters, which is the most irritating.

Sorry about confusion, I meant none of the firms I'm bidding on requires a list of references on Symplicity. I was wondering if I should have one nonetheless just in case.

Really can't hurt. I've heard former employer, one law professor, and 1L employer are the norm.

If K-JD, is two profs and 1L employer the norm? I don't want to stretch back to my last internship in summer of 2012.

[Anonymous User]

That sounds reasonable to me. The email OCS just sent out has links to sample references pages and it includes an undergraduate professor as one of them.

[Anonymous User]

what if your employer is a 1L SA? is it still appropriate to ask?

also, are college professors totally out even if you still keep in touch with them and they know you much better than any of your law profs?

[Anonymous User]

At median. Wondering if I'm being too safe - considering adding Kirkland or Proskauer to number 1 and bumping everything else down accordingly. Let me know if there's any egregious ordering or anything glaringly missing!

1. Shearman & Sterling LLP
2. sidley austin llp
3. paul hastings llp
4. hogan lovells US LLP
5. Kaye Scholer LLP
6. White & Case LLP
7. Clifford Chance US LLP
8. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy LLP
9. Arnold Porter
10. Latham & Watkins LLP
11. Allen & Overy LLP
12. Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
13. Ropes & Gray
14. Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
15. Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
16. Morrison & Foerster LLP
17. Fried Frank
18. Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft LLP
19. Skadden (LA)
20. Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP
21. O'Melveny & Myers LLP
22. Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP
23. Sheppard Muillin (LA)
24. Dechert LLP
25. DLA Piper US LLP
26. Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP
27. sidley austin llp (LA)
28. Skadden (Palo Alto)
29. Seward & Kissel LLP
30. troutman sanders llp

[Anonymous User]

At median. Wondering if I'm being too safe - considering adding Kirkland or Proskauer to number 1 and bumping everything else down accordingly. Let me know if there's any egregious ordering or anything glaringly missing!

1. Shearman & Sterling LLP
2. Sidley Austin LLP
3. Paul Hastings LLP
4. Hogan Lovells US LLP
5. Kaye Scholer LLP
6. White & Case LLP
7. Clifford Chance US LLP
8. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy LLP
9. Arnold Porter
10. Latham & Watkins LLP
11. Allen & Overy LLP
12. Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
13. Ropes & Gray
14. Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
15. Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
16. Morrison & Foerster LLP
17. Fried Frank
18. Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft LLP
19. Skadden (LA)
20. Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP
21. O'Melveny & Myers LLP
22. Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP
23. Sheppard Muillin (LA)
24. Dechert LLP
25. DLA Piper US LLP
26. Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP
27. Sidley Austin LLP (LA)
28. Skadden (Palo Alto)
29. Seward & Kissel LLP
30. Troutman Sanders LLP

Are you interested in litigation or transactional work? Do you have any interesting softs or WE? If you do, then I think you might want to add a few reach firms. Your grades are pretty good, so I think you might have a shot at some grade-conscious firms if you have an interesting background/diversity/WE/relevant industry experience/other softs.

I don't know enough to speak to your LA bids, but I will just mention that contrary to what a certain OCS counselor said, you don't need to be Kent to bid for CA lol...

[Anonymous User]

Do it, dude. If you really do think you'd like to work at either firm, you're competitive enough for it. Proskauer will take median, no problem, and as far as I know, Kirkland will, too.

You bid four LA firms. Any reasoning to the four you chose, over Paul Hastings, Manatt, etc.? Also curious about the solo hail mary to Skadden Palo Alto, with no other NorCal firms.

[Anonymous User]

When people in this thread say or read median, what are we assuming it is? I'm slightly below a 3.3 and terrified that I'll be perceived as the dreaded "below median" by firms, once they whip out the calculators.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in the same situation (veryyyy slightly below a 3.3) and I assume I am below median, but how far below is hard to tell exactly.

Do we think firms also assume 3.3 is median?

[Anonymous User]

I'm in the same situation (veryyyy slightly below a 3.3) and I assume I am below median, but how far below is hard to tell exactly.

Do we think firms also assume 3.3 is median?

From what I hear and to my understanding, 3.3 is generally seen as median even though nobody knows for sure. I don't think being slightly below will affect you negatively if it's a negligible difference.

[Anonymous User]

Are you interested in litigation or transactional work? Do you have any interesting softs or WE? If you do, then I think you might want to add a few reach firms. Your grades are pretty good, so I think you might have a shot at some grade-conscious firms if you have an interesting background/diversity/WE/relevant industry experience/other softs.

Minor diversity but not too many softs. K-jd. I have a 1L SA, though, for what it's worth. As far as litigation or transaction, I'm honestly pretty flexible. I liked what I've done of litigation so far, but I've also had zero exposure to transaction and would be pretty interested in exploring it.

Do it, dude. If you really do think you'd like to work at either firm, you're competitive enough for it. Proskauer will take median, no problem, and as far as I know, Kirkland will, too.

You bid four LA firms. Any reasoning to the four you chose, over Paul Hastings, Manatt, etc.? Also curious about the solo hail mary to Skadden Palo Alto, with no other NorCal firms.

I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but it was partially because those were the least grade selective judging by the honors report. Then again, maybe that's a bad way to go about it, since there were such small class sizes. If I'm way off base, I'll definitely look into Paul Hastings and Manatt too. Sort of similar reason for Skadden Palo Alto, with the other NorCal firms looking way too selective. I'd love to live in either NorCal or SoCal, for different reasons, but just playing it safe.

And thanks, I'll probably add Proskauer. One of my hesitations was the whole first failed bid thing being at 1, but nothing risked is nothing gained.

When people in this thread say or read median, what are we assuming it is? I'm slightly below a 3.3 and terrified that I'll be perceived as the dreaded "below median" by firms, once they whip out the calculators.

I've always assumed it's around a 3.33 (B+) but I'm not entirely sure. I don't think you have anything to worry about though - I'm sure most just look to see the general range. There are exceptions, but I doubt a tiny fraction will make or break anything.

[Anonymous User]

Are you interested in litigation or transactional work? Do you have any interesting softs or WE? If you do, then I think you might want to add a few reach firms. Your grades are pretty good, so I think you might have a shot at some grade-conscious firms if you have an interesting background/diversity/WE/relevant industry experience/other softs.

Minor diversity but not too many softs. K-jd. I have a 1L SA, though, for what it's worth. As far as litigation or transaction, I'm honestly pretty flexible. I liked what I've done of litigation so far, but I've also had zero exposure to transaction and would be pretty interested in exploring it.

Do it, dude. If you really do think you'd like to work at either firm, you're competitive enough for it. Proskauer will take median, no problem, and as far as I know, Kirkland will, too.

You bid four LA firms. Any reasoning to the four you chose, over Paul Hastings, Manatt, etc.? Also curious about the solo hail mary to Skadden Palo Alto, with no other NorCal firms.

I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but it was partially because those were the least grade selective judging by the honors report. Then again, maybe that's a bad way to go about it, since there were such small class sizes. If I'm way off base, I'll definitely look into Paul Hastings and Manatt too. Sort of similar reason for Skadden Palo Alto, with the other NorCal firms looking way too selective. I'd love to live in either NorCal or SoCal, for different reasons, but just playing it safe.

And thanks, I'll probably add Proskauer. One of my hesitations was the whole first failed bid thing being at 1, but nothing risked is nothing gained.

When people in this thread say or read median, what are we assuming it is? I'm slightly below a 3.3 and terrified that I'll be perceived as the dreaded "below median" by firms, once they whip out the calculators.

I've always assumed it's around a 3.33 (B+) but I'm not entirely sure. I don't think you have anything to worry about though - I'm sure most just look to see the general range. There are exceptions, but I doubt a tiny fraction will make or break anything.

Given the curve, I think it's probably between a B+ (3.33) and a B, but closer to a B+ because more than half of any given class gets a B+ or above. But in reality, our transcripts don't actually show our GPA and firms only see the actual letter grades on our transcripts. I doubt anyone's actually going to break out a calculator and figure out your exact GPA. I think what probably happens is that firms look at your transcripts, and if they see an even mix of Bs and B+s they'll assume you're around median, and if they see way more Bs/B-s than B+s they'll categorize you as below median.

[Anonymous User]

When people in this thread say or read median, what are we assuming it is? I'm slightly below a 3.3 and terrified that I'll be perceived as the dreaded "below median" by firms, once they whip out the calculators.

If you are below a B+ average that will *probably* be treated as below median (even if median isn't exactly 3.3), but just barely. Plenty of firms feed heavily on CLS students in the third quartile; they want you, as long as you interview confidently and non-awkwardly. That's one of the key advantages of going here - there are some other schools where it would be terrifying to be median. Don't worry: a plurality of the class probably hovers around where you are.

[Anonymous User]

I think is my final effort at bid list. 3.7+, no work experience, all New York offices. Anything laughably wrong here?

1. Proskauer
2. Shearman & Sterling
3. Sidley Austin
4. Skadden
5. Paul Hastings
6. Debevoise & Plimpton
7. White & Case
8. Wilmer Hale
9. Weil
10. Jones Day
11. Clifford Chance
12. Sullivan & Cromwell
13. Milbank
14. Ropes & Gray
15. Paul Weiss
16. Willkie
17. Freshfields
18. Schulte
19. Davis Polk
20. Akin Gump
21. Cadwalader
22. Chadbourne & Parke
23. Cravath
24. Goodwin Procter
25. O’Melveny & Myers LLP
26. Dechert LLP
27. Hughes Hubbard
28. Wachtell
29. Boies Schiller
30. Simpson Thacher

- Ned Stark

[Anonymous User]

If ~3.33 is median, is it still accurate that Stone, 3.41, represents the top ~30% of the class?

"As a result of the law school's grading curve, Stone Scholar honors are generally awarded to 35 percent of the class (as low as 29 percent of 1Ls and as high as 45 percent of 3Ls).[2] This would make it roughly equivalent to cum laude honors."

http://www.wikicu.com/Law_School_Honors#cite_note-1

Does a 0.08 difference in GPA cover ~20% of the class?