The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[gwuorbust]

Got a pretty awesome Vale of Tears story.

This firm has a practice group that I'd love to work in, and they put a position up on Symplicity last Wednesday. I'm psyched because I know a guy who works there in that group pretty well, so I make a note to apply for it when I get time over the weekend (posted application deadline was Jan. 30).

They took the posting down the day after they posted it.

Well, friend of mine at school copped an interview and was being interviewed by my friend at the firm. Firm-friend asked him if he knew me, and since he did, I guess I was a topic of conversation. Firm-friend had school-friend text me from the interview (or right after the interview) some inside joke.

In short, my friend at this firm thought it would be a good idea to have someone who is interviewing for a job I wanted text me from the interview.

that is just cruel and disgusting

[Anonymous User]

Just applied to like 10 jerbs on symplicity. Expecting more of DAT RADIO SILENCE.

I'm just impressed that there that many 3L positions even posted.

[Anonymous User]

It's been roughly 4 months since I interviewed with a federal judge in the district I'd like to practice. I know the judge hasn't made a decision because I called the judge again today. Please decide.

Interviewed with another judge in early January and said he'd make a decision in "about two months." Whatever happened to judges forcing you to decide at interviews?

Oh well, sent some more apps out and have a meeting with the practice group leader of a firm I'd love to work for. Progress is progress...

[Anonymous User]

Time to take stock of this semester's job search efforts:

Didn't do a mass mail campaign. Hit up some stuff on Symplicity and tried to work some of the contacts I knew. Didn't bother with the federal govt. scramble because I don't have the resume for it. Concentrated mainly on firms, who didn't seem to really be doing a lot of hiring in the fall.

1) Callback at Waller's fall program. Rejected.
2) Phone screener off Symplicity submission to Midsize firm in home market. Got CB. Made it to final 2 people. Still waiting.
3) On-campus screener with PD in home market. Callback. Haven't heard.
4) IRS Honors. Survived a round of cuts to get an interview. No word on any further interviews or rejection.
5) Interview with white collar boutique in home market happening when I get back from break.

So still shit waiting to hear back from. I don't know if 5 interviews is good or not, but I'm really trying not to be discouraged.

Whelp, got some results. Was second choice at #2. Was first choice at #5, but they don't have the work. Still waiting on #3. Best bet now seems to be using some personal connections to try to snag DA in home market.

I regret law school.

[Anonymous User]

recent email from CLS OCS

to undisclosed recipients
Hi There. Hope you are well.

Here is the link to an article from the NY Times today that underscores the importance of our networks in a job search regardless of the sector in which we are searching.


"Employers Increasingly Rely on Internal Referrals in Hiring" »

Here are a few other reminders:

1. LinkedIn:
(a) If you do not already have a LinkedIn Profile, we advise that you set one up. Your network is bigger and can be more helpful to you in your search than you may realize. It includes: your friends and acquaintances from high school, college, summer positions, any positions you may have held between college and law school, members of clubs or sports teams to which you belong or belonged, professors, old neighbors, relatives, close family friends, supervisors, friends in the non-legal world, etc. The broader and more diverse your connections, the more powerful your network.

(b) If you would like to participate in a workshop to have your current LinkedIn profile reviewed and improved, please send an e-mail.

(c) If you did not attend the presentation last semester by Doug Mandell, former GC of LinkedIn, you can view it here: LinkedIn Presentation
or
http://media.law.columbia.edu/career/sp ... 120416.mp4


(d) LinkedIn itself has tutorials and guidelines for maximizing the power of your network so you may want to spend some time on its website as well.


2. Spring Internships
Several employers have postings for Spring internships. Consider applying for these internships if your schedule permits. Working as an intern is a great way to get valuable practice experience, broaden your network and "get your foot in the door".

3. 3L Listings on Symplicity
There are several postings for entry level lawyers on Symplicity. Not only should you apply to any that interest you, you should keep your counselor abreast of your applications so that she/he can assist you in following up with employers.

4. Stay on our Radar
Please continue to meet with your counselor regularly. If you have not been doing so, we strongly advise you to make an appointment as soon as possible.
If we are working with you, we can quickly help you to respond to or create opportunities.
]]

The LinkedIn thing is one of the biggest scams I've ever seen. Don't know anyone that it actually has helped get a job, esp straight out of law school, and the stupid speaker never really came up w/ anything decent. At this point, LinkedIn has become a second facebook if connecting to everyone you know.

Nothing has popped up on our school's symplicity in at least the last month or so, so not sure what they are talking about except for some very specific postings that few qualify for. I'm feeling really thrown under the bus here, which I'm worried will get worse since will be graduating in the next couple weeks while still searching for a fellowship position to provide some sort of safety net. Unfortunately, employers don't seem to be consider such requests as seriously as I need them to. Worse are applications for actual jobs, where the employers are showing a complete lack of respect for entry level applicants with sloppy rejection letters or rather mean-spirited interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Employers don't need to do much because there is simply so much supply of top talent. I feel sorry for those is the 20%-33% at T2s, let alone those below. In the past, there were always good places to take those graduates - but not anymore.

[Anonymous User]

Almost cried with happiness after being offered a first-round interview this week. I seriously am so pathetic. I'm like, searching for housing in this city just to average the QoL, given the salary. On a daily basis I think about how much I wish I never went to law school.

[Anonymous User]

I know a 3L who did some project work for a boutique 15 attorney firm over the break and it ended up in a full time offer. It made me mad in addition to being jealous, which I know is not right but I am rather mad about everything right now.

[Anonymous User]

Hey bros, don't give up yet. Been poasting ITT for quite some time but managed to snag 2 interviews this next week. Both are with smaller firms , but hey, 2 interviews, both with law firms, I'll take it.

[Myself]

.

[rad lulz]

Hey bros, don't give up yet. Been poasting ITT for quite some time but managed to snag 2 interviews this next week. Both are with smaller firms , but hey, 2 interviews, both with law firms, I'll take it.

Any tips on how to do the same?

[Anonymous User]

I know a 3L who did some project work for a boutique 15 attorney firm over the break and it ended up in a full time offer. It made me mad in addition to being jealous, which I know is not right but I am rather mad about everything right now.

I think trying to do the same thing would be good too. I know someone who worked part-time since last semester as a 3L. Got a full-time offer near the end of winter break. I think one of the advantages to working part-time at a smallerish law firm is that they see your work product and know you're a sociable guy who is not a complete weirdo.

I tried to do some project work during my current study for the bar. The lawyer showed some initial interest, and then just decided to never get back to and no longer reply. Quite annoyed.

[Anonymous User]

Hey bros, don't give up yet. Been poasting ITT for quite some time but managed to snag 2 interviews this next week. Both are with smaller firms , but hey, 2 interviews, both with law firms, I'll take it.

Any tips on how to do the same?

Actually 3 interviews now, one large firm (but in a market I don't like) and the two smaller ones (one in a great market, one in a market I don't like). Got them all through good old fashioned Symplicity. It's been radio silence for months on there, and then I got like 3 interviews in 4 days. When it rains it pours, I guess. Point is, keep spamming those resumes. No offers yet, but I'm a lot less stressed than I was a week ago.

[Anonymous User]

I've been following this thread for a while. Like many of you, I've been on the mass mailing grind since last fall. I had some immediate results, including 5 screener interviews in the early fall-- all with mid-size firms. For six months, I kept following up, but all I got was that good ol' radio silence. Finally heard back from one of them last week, a partner offered me an interview this Friday with the heads of several practice groups. I know it isn't much, but the only advice I can offer is that you keep grinding. At this point, that's all you can control.

[Bikeflip]

Any advice with re-connecting with an alum I contacted 1L yr but never stayed in touch with?

[Anonymous User]

I did that recently. I had started working on a kind of work in my clinic that the alum did, so there was a natural hook to write them and say they had popped into my mind and I wanted to catch up. If they recently worked on a high profile matter or won an award recently you can say you saw the article, etc. But the main thing I said was I couldn't believe how fast the last two years had gone by and had really enjoyed talking to/learning from the person and wanted to reconnect. Ask to get their perspective on something you discussed before or just say you had found their advice helpful before and have a few questions, or if it was more of a social thing just say you wanted to see how they were doing. The person I wrote to wrote back immediately and made plans to get together. If you had a good connection before and sincerely have a reason (or can come up with a reason) to get in touch now they should be happy to hear from you. They are lawyers and know we can disappear into the law school rabbit hole. Just acknowledge it's been awhile and build off of whatever connection you had before.

[Bikeflip]

I did that recently. I had started working on a kind of work in my clinic that the alum did, so there was a natural hook to write them and say they had popped into my mind and I wanted to catch up. If they recently worked on a high profile matter or won an award recently you can say you saw the article, etc. But the main thing I said was I couldn't believe how fast the last two years had gone by and had really enjoyed talking to/learning from the person and wanted to reconnect. Ask to get their perspective on something you discussed before or just say you had found their advice helpful before and have a few questions, or if it was more of a social thing just say you wanted to see how they were doing. The person I wrote to wrote back immediately and made plans to get together. If you had a good connection before and sincerely have a reason (or can come up with a reason) to get in touch now they should be happy to hear from you. They are lawyers and know we can disappear into the law school rabbit hole. Just acknowledge it's been awhile and build off of whatever connection you had before.

Thanks. That sounds like a solid enough plan. I have no real hook, save, "Hi, know of anyone hiring?"

Here's what I'm going to write:


Dear Mr [Blah],

First of all, thank you for giving me some course advice for my upper level courses. I ended up taking [blah and the law and blerg legal studies] like you mentioned, and I did well in both. Both were solid courses. Second, my apologies for not keeping in touch as closely as I should have. Finally, I was wondering how you've dealt with the issues you learned in [blah and the law and blerg legal studies]. One thing one of my professors stated in those courses last semester is not to do [X]; how would you do it in practice?

I'd love to sit down and talk with you regarding these matters. My contact info is still [bikeflip@gunner.stfu], and you can reach me by phone at [555-867-5309]. I hope to hear from you soon.

Best,

Bikeflip.

[de5igual]

I did that recently. I had started working on a kind of work in my clinic that the alum did, so there was a natural hook to write them and say they had popped into my mind and I wanted to catch up. If they recently worked on a high profile matter or won an award recently you can say you saw the article, etc. But the main thing I said was I couldn't believe how fast the last two years had gone by and had really enjoyed talking to/learning from the person and wanted to reconnect. Ask to get their perspective on something you discussed before or just say you had found their advice helpful before and have a few questions, or if it was more of a social thing just say you wanted to see how they were doing. The person I wrote to wrote back immediately and made plans to get together. If you had a good connection before and sincerely have a reason (or can come up with a reason) to get in touch now they should be happy to hear from you. They are lawyers and know we can disappear into the law school rabbit hole. Just acknowledge it's been awhile and build off of whatever connection you had before.

Thanks. That sounds like a solid enough plan. I have no real hook, save, "Hi, know of anyone hiring?"

Here's what I'm going to write:


Dear Mr [Blah],

First of all, thank you for giving me some course advice for my upper level courses. I ended up taking [blah and the law and blerg legal studies] like you mentioned, and I did well in both. Both were solid courses. Second, my apologies for not keeping in touch as closely as I should have. Finally, I was wondering how you've dealt with the issues you learned in [blah and the law and blerg legal studies]. One thing one of my professors stated in those courses last semester is not to do [X]; how would you do it in practice?

I'd love to sit down and talk with you regarding these matters. My contact info is still [bikeflip@gunner.stfu], and you can reach me by phone at [555-867-5309]. I hope to hear from you soon.

Best,

Bikeflip.

This letter doesn't sound natural/sincere at all. Maybe use some other, more informal transition than "first, second, finally."

[Bikeflip]

Well damn. Good thing I haven't sent it yet. I hate writing networking emails; mine always seem to come across awkward.

[Anonymous User]

Dear Mr [Blah],

How are you? I hope that you are doing well and [still enjoying developing your practice at lawfirm]. We met at [networking event] when I was a 1L. I can't believe how fast the last two years have gone by, but I have used and appreciated your advice, so wanted to get back in touch. First off, thank you for the guidance you gave me on taking upper level courses. I ended up taking [blah and the law and blerg legal studies] like you mentioned, and I did well in both and [took a lot away from them/be specific]. I was wondering how you've dealt with some of the issues you learned in [blah and the law and blerg legal studies]. One thing one of my professors stated in those courses last semester is not to do [X]. I'm interested to hear how you handle these issues in practice and would appreciate the chance to talk with you about it and get some general advice as graduation approaches. [Are you available to go for a cup of coffee in the next few weeks?/Would you be willing to speak with me by phone in the next few weeks?/I am near your office for an internship on x days and would love to meet you for a cup of coffee/other best fit for communicating with this person but be specific].

My contact info is still [bikeflip@gunner.stfu], and you can reach me by phone at [555-867-5309]. Thanks so much for your time.

Best,

Bikeflip.

Anonymous because sending out similar e-mails and best to be careful.

[Anonymous User]

Fellowship application just got dinged (think EJW, Soros, etc.). I'm really glad I spent like 60 hours working on that.

[rad lulz]

Fellowship application just got dinged (think EJW, Soros, etc.). I'm really glad I spent like 60 hours working on that.

Shit sorry bro/girl.

It's a sad reflection on lawl skool when the 3LOL thread has 7 pages and this one has 24.

[Anonymous User]

Fellowship application just got dinged (think EJW, Soros, etc.). I'm really glad I spent like 60 hours working on that.

Shit sorry bro/girl.

It's a sad reflection on lawl skool when the 3LOL thread has 7 pages and this one has 24.

Yes, this thread reads like a dingathon. With all our letters going out this month and next, there will be a lot more. Sorry bro, but we have to grin and bear it.

[rad lulz]

Fellowship application just got dinged (think EJW, Soros, etc.). I'm really glad I spent like 60 hours working on that.

Shit sorry bro/girl.

It's a sad reflection on lawl skool when the 3LOL thread has 7 pages and this one has 24.

Yes, this thread reads like a dingathon. With all our letters going out this month and next, there will be a lot more. Sorry bro, but we have to grin and bear it.

I'm all grins in front of potential employers, but in private I am very different.

[2LsAPlenty]

Brotastic. I guess I would have to see what kind of face you put on outside the interview Maybe we should bring in Dean Mitchell for a consult. He would tell you that there is plenty of need for lawyers in the market and to relax.