NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

JD summer here.

2 things:

Is the bonus seriously not built into salary? I thought that was the entire point of the black box comp.

And does anyone know where the 180k scale went? All offices or just major?

[anyriotgirl]

has anyone ever tried to drag JONES DAY in front of the NLRB for this whole black box thing?

[Anonymous User]

Care to elaborate?

Also, no email to incoming associates yet.

JD does there usual bumps off-cycle, so after first year, you spend first half of the year making scale and second half making the next level up, give or take. I.e. class of 2014 was making 170k, and would've been scheduled to go to ~$185k. The minimum anyone was expecting was at least $205k for class of 2014. We also used to say that bonuses were built into our comp, so many were hoping for at least $215k. So at the end of the year we're $15k behind peer firms. That gap grows as you get Sr. Class of 2009 assoc got bumped to $300, but remember he should've been bumped to class of '08 scale. Also remember that he's $100k behind peers come bone-us time.

No one is happy except maybe the first years.

ETA: NYC office has historically had larger bumps than other offices, my numbers are from a non-NYC major market office.

So you lose six months of increased pay vs other firms?

So if you start in Oct 2016, you don't get raised to 2nd year salary until July 2018?

Unclear, in the past few years, first years got a bump in January of there second full year. I.e. someone starting Oct. '16, would've gotten a bump in Jan '18. Unclear if that will continue or if current first years will go to $190k in Jan '17. B/c BLACK BOX.

ATL needs to conduct a full on investigation and publish it.

[Anonymous User]

JD summer here.

2 things:

Is the bonus seriously not built into salary? I thought that was the entire point of the black box comp.

Seriously it's not, at least not at my office.

And does anyone know where the 180k scale went? All offices or just major?

almost certainly just major, only major offices were on the $160k scale

[Abbie Doobie]

their comp structure is generally shit anyway. plus this:

Jones Day is such a bullshit firm.

[Anonymous User]

They haven't let summers know anything, which is a bit weird, considering bid lists for OCI are due soon.

[Anonymous User]

JD does there usual bumps off-cycle, so after first year, you spend first half of the year making scale and second half making the next level up, give or take. I.e. class of 2014 was making 170k, and would've been scheduled to go to ~$185k. The minimum anyone was expecting was at least $205k for class of 2014. We also used to say that bonuses were built into our comp, so many were hoping for at least $215k. So at the end of the year we're $15k behind peer firms. That gap grows as you get Sr. Class of 2009 assoc got bumped to $300, but remember he should've been bumped to class of '08 scale. Also remember that he's $100k behind peers come bone-us time.

No one is happy except maybe the first years.

ETA: NYC office has historically had larger bumps than other offices, my numbers are from a non-NYC major market office.

Ok, this post confused me. So you're saying, current second-year associates were making 170 and expected to be moved up to 185 before everyone started raising. After raises, people expected to get 205, whereas market base is 210. But instead 3rd years are getting 200, so 10k less than market base, quite a bit less total comp when bonuses figure in. Did I get that right? The 15k behind sentence confused me.

[Anonymous User]

They haven't let summers know anything, which is a bit weird, considering bid lists for OCI are due soon.

Zero chance summers get a raise.

[Anonymous User]

They haven't let summers know anything, which is a bit weird, considering bid lists for OCI are due soon.

Zero chance summers get a raise.

Are you at JD? I get that they can get away with duping law students with the whole black box thing (they got me), but it's a harder sell when they can't even say their summers are compensated at market.

[Anonymous User]

JD does there usual bumps off-cycle, so after first year, you spend first half of the year making scale and second half making the next level up, give or take. I.e. class of 2014 was making 170k, and would've been scheduled to go to ~$185k. The minimum anyone was expecting was at least $205k for class of 2014. We also used to say that bonuses were built into our comp, so many were hoping for at least $215k. So at the end of the year we're $15k behind peer firms. That gap grows as you get Sr. Class of 2009 assoc got bumped to $300, but remember he should've been bumped to class of '08 scale. Also remember that he's $100k behind peers come bone-us time.

No one is happy except maybe the first years.

ETA: NYC office has historically had larger bumps than other offices, my numbers are from a non-NYC major market office.

Ok, this post confused me. So you're saying, current second-year associates were making 170 and expected to be moved up to 185 before everyone started raising. After raises, people expected to get 205, whereas market base is 210. But instead 3rd years are getting 200, so 10k less than market base, quite a bit less total comp when bonuses figure in. Did I get that right? The 15k behind sentence confused me.

JD moves class year in July, not Jan. So after the first year, a second year would have made $170k Jan-Jun, and 185k Jul-Dec. But we don't do bonuses, full stop. So if you compare total comp between JD and peer firm that pays bonuses, JD associates fall way behind.

I.e. This year, assoc at JD who bills 2400 (avg for many at my office) just got bumped will make ~$185k total comp. (half year at $170, half at $200. Assoc at peer that matched and pays market bonus will make $175k plus bonus, which for 2400 hours at many firms would be ~30k, so they'd be at $205k total comp for year.

FWIW most assocs chose JD for intangibles, and are willing to accept some gap between JD and other firms, but most would say that gap should be between $5k and $10k

[Anonymous User]

They haven't let summers know anything, which is a bit weird, considering bid lists for OCI are due soon.

Zero chance summers get a raise.

Are you at JD? I get that they can get away with duping law students with the whole black box thing (they got me), but it's a harder sell when they can't even say their summers are compensated at market.

Yes I am assoc here. I think you're forgetting how relieved everyone is to land their first gig and how much of a joke 3L OCI is. Summers will tell themselves that they'll still make $180k when they start, and that making 3k/week for a summer is still good money.

[Anonymous User]

They haven't let summers know anything, which is a bit weird, considering bid lists for OCI are due soon.

Zero chance summers get a raise.

Are you at JD? I get that they can get away with duping law students with the whole black box thing (they got me), but it's a harder sell when they can't even say their summers are compensated at market.

Yes I am assoc here. I think you're forgetting how relieved everyone is to land their first gig and how much of a joke 3L OCI is. Summers will tell themselves that they'll still make $180k when they start, and that making 3k/week for a summer is still good money.

Fair enough. Still unclear for rising 2Ls how they will even know JD will pay market in major cities if they don't broadcast it but w/e.

Is there any word on markets outside NYC/DC/SF, etc. I'm at one of the regional cities.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

their comp structure is generally shit anyway. plus this:

Jones Day is such a bullshit firm.

[unlicensedpotato]

They haven't let summers know anything, which is a bit weird, considering bid lists for OCI are due soon.

Zero chance summers get a raise.

Are you at JD? I get that they can get away with duping law students with the whole black box thing (they got me), but it's a harder sell when they can't even say their summers are compensated at market.

Yes I am assoc here. I think you're forgetting how relieved everyone is to land their first gig and how much of a joke 3L OCI is. Summers will tell themselves that they'll still make $180k when they start, and that making 3k/week for a summer is still good money.

Yeah, firms want to exclusively hire associates who are pleasantly surprised (excited even!) to be making only slightly less than market to start. Also, all of the other vault firms ranked around #18 have hired 3Ls extensively in recent years.

[Anonymous User]

JD does there usual bumps off-cycle, so after first year, you spend first half of the year making scale and second half making the next level up, give or take. I.e. class of 2014 was making 170k, and would've been scheduled to go to ~$185k. The minimum anyone was expecting was at least $205k for class of 2014. We also used to say that bonuses were built into our comp, so many were hoping for at least $215k. So at the end of the year we're $15k behind peer firms. That gap grows as you get Sr. Class of 2009 assoc got bumped to $300, but remember he should've been bumped to class of '08 scale. Also remember that he's $100k behind peers come bone-us time.

No one is happy except maybe the first years.

ETA: NYC office has historically had larger bumps than other offices, my numbers are from a non-NYC major market office.

Ok, this post confused me. So you're saying, current second-year associates were making 170 and expected to be moved up to 185 before everyone started raising. After raises, people expected to get 205, whereas market base is 210. But instead 3rd years are getting 200, so 10k less than market base, quite a bit less total comp when bonuses figure in. Did I get that right? The 15k behind sentence confused me.

JD moves class year in July, not Jan. So after the first year, a second year would have made $170k Jan-Jun, and 185k Jul-Dec. But we don't do bonuses, full stop. So if you compare total comp between JD and peer firm that pays bonuses, JD associates fall way behind.

I.e. This year, assoc at JD who bills 2400 (avg for many at my office) just got bumped will make ~$185k total comp. (half year at $170, half at $200. Assoc at peer that matched and pays market bonus will make $175k plus bonus, which for 2400 hours at many firms would be ~30k, so they'd be at $205k total comp for year.

FWIW most assocs chose JD for intangibles, and are willing to accept some gap between JD and other firms, but most would say that gap should be between $5k and $10k

Maybe I'm just dense or suck at math. Apologies. Assume the raises had never happened:

So a current c/o 2015 associate would have started making 160 last fall. He would make that through his entire first year, correct? He would not get a bump to 170 in pay until Jan 2017, like at every other firm. So are you saying he would:

-get another bump to ~185 in July 2017 - effectively making his comp 182.k for 2017.
-Or, are you saying that he would make 170 for the entire year of 2017, through July 2018, moving up to 185 then?

[Anonymous User]

Pillsbury matched. All offices.

[Anonymous User]

JD does there usual bumps off-cycle, so after first year, you spend first half of the year making scale and second half making the next level up, give or take. I.e. class of 2014 was making 170k, and would've been scheduled to go to ~$185k. The minimum anyone was expecting was at least $205k for class of 2014. We also used to say that bonuses were built into our comp, so many were hoping for at least $215k. So at the end of the year we're $15k behind peer firms. That gap grows as you get Sr. Class of 2009 assoc got bumped to $300, but remember he should've been bumped to class of '08 scale. Also remember that he's $100k behind peers come bone-us time.

No one is happy except maybe the first years.

ETA: NYC office has historically had larger bumps than other offices, my numbers are from a non-NYC major market office.

Ok, this post confused me. So you're saying, current second-year associates were making 170 and expected to be moved up to 185 before everyone started raising. After raises, people expected to get 205, whereas market base is 210. But instead 3rd years are getting 200, so 10k less than market base, quite a bit less total comp when bonuses figure in. Did I get that right? The 15k behind sentence confused me.

JD moves class year in July, not Jan. So after the first year, a second year would have made $170k Jan-Jun, and 185k Jul-Dec. But we don't do bonuses, full stop. So if you compare total comp between JD and peer firm that pays bonuses, JD associates fall way behind.

I.e. This year, assoc at JD who bills 2400 (avg for many at my office) just got bumped will make ~$185k total comp. (half year at $170, half at $200. Assoc at peer that matched and pays market bonus will make $175k plus bonus, which for 2400 hours at many firms would be ~30k, so they'd be at $205k total comp for year.

FWIW most assocs chose JD for intangibles, and are willing to accept some gap between JD and other firms, but most would say that gap should be between $5k and $10k

Maybe I'm just dense or suck at math. Apologies. Assume the raises had never happened:

So a current c/o 2015 associate would have started making 160 last fall. He would make that through his entire first year, correct? He would not get a bump to 170 in pay until Jan 2017, like at every other firm. So are you saying he would:

-get another bump to ~185 in July 2017 - effectively making his comp 182.k for 2017.
-Or, are you saying that he would make 170 for the entire year of 2017, through July 2018, moving up to 185 then?

Mostly the former, except the effective comp would be $177.5 (185-170 =15/2 =7.5)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone from the JD Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Miami, other regional offices have info on where first year salaries went?

[Anonymous User]

Can any JD associate comment on how much the health insurance costs? Been trying to budget for next year, and that's the main remaining question.

[arklaw13]

Per JD's website, non major market first-year salaries are as follows:

Cleveland/Columbus/Detroit/Miami/Minneapolis/Pittsburgh - 160

Atlanta - 180!!

[Anonymous User]

Per JD's website, non major market first-year salaries are as follows:

Cleveland/Columbus/Detroit/Miami/Minneapolis/Pittsburgh - 160

Atlanta - 180!!

Haha omg. Okay that's really exciting for me, I'm in one of those smaller offices in cities that don't really get bonuses anyway. 160k in those cities is a huge amount.

[Anonymous User]

Per JD's website, non major market first-year salaries are as follows:

Cleveland/Columbus/Detroit/Miami/Minneapolis/Pittsburgh - 160

Atlanta - 180!!

Shit, Foley has to match that now. With Gunderson at 180 in Ann Arbor (no associates though) i don't see how Foley couldn't match that in Detroit.

[Anonymous User]

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/jones-da ... pensation/

ATL is all over this.

[Anonymous User]

What the fuck Perkins Coie where are you

[LaLiLuLeLo]

What the fuck Perkins Coie where are you

Perkins plebs peevish with procrastinating partners.