New associate fuck up thread (and tips for slacking) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is it normal to think everyone thinks I suck and I'm going to get fired or am I screwed? Seems people don't smile as much anymore. 4 possible explanations. (A) They were acting, (B) I got uglier, (C) Words out I'm an idiot, (D) All of the above.

[fats provolone]

Is it normal to think everyone thinks I suck and I'm going to get fired or am I screwed? Seems people don't smile as much anymore. 4 possible explanations. (A) They were acting, (B) I got uglier, (C) Words out I'm an idiot, (D) All of the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

disclaimer: this doesn't mean you don't suck. it just means it's not worth worrying about it.

[LeDique]

yea, it's normal and you gotta beat it or you're going to go nuts. when i started i wondered if i was doing things incredibly wrong, but figured i wasn't even being firmly criticized or corrected, let alone ever yelled at, so i eventually concluded my mistakes must be within the acceptable range. ill prolly never know whether im on the good end of that range or not, which is why it's easy to conclude you must be as low as possible and about to fuck up terribly, but there's nothing you can do. worrying about it isn't helping you. just do your work you've been doing, if you're told you did something wrong, don't do those things again, and you'll prolly be ok. i keep a word doc thingsnottofuckupagain.doc and before i hand anything off, i check the doc.

i keep meaning to make some of the writing style stuff in that doc into a word macro but that's never going to happen.

[rpupkin]

Is it normal to think everyone thinks I suck and I'm going to get fired or am I screwed? Seems people don't smile as much anymore. 4 possible explanations. (A) They were acting, (B) I got uglier, (C) Words out I'm an idiot, (D) All of the above.

(E) You're paranoid.

Yeah, feeling like this is normal.

[Anonymous User]

Is it normal to think everyone thinks I suck and I'm going to get fired or am I screwed? Seems people don't smile as much anymore. 4 possible explanations. (A) They were acting, (B) I got uglier, (C) Words out I'm an idiot, (D) All of the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome

disclaimer: this doesn't mean you don't suck. it just means it's not worth worrying about it.

I am an underrepresented minority (not racially speaking) so it makes sense actually especially given they say it's more prevalent in women. However, I am also paranoid.

[Anonymous User]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

Meh. Working at a law firm actually has oddly made me prioritize leisure time more. I really carve out and protect my evenings and weekends as much as possible, and take a ton of vacation. I'm always over my hours anyways, so why not? I like it way more than most people, but working at a law firm feels like something I'll do until I retire, hopefully fairly early, and then I'll be free to do the stuff I actually want to do-spend more time with my spouse, surf/swim/run/bike/ski/golf ALL THE TIME, otherwise be outside all the time, pursue my other hobbies like cooking and gardening more fulsomely, etc., etc., etc.

[Anonymous User]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

Meh. Working at a law firm actually has oddly made me prioritize leisure time more. I really carve out and protect my evenings and weekends as much as possible, and take a ton of vacation. I'm always over my hours anyways, so why not? I like it way more than most people, but working at a law firm feels like something I'll do until I retire, hopefully fairly early, and then I'll be free to do the stuff I actually want to do-spend more time with my spouse, surf/swim/run/bike/ski/golf ALL THE TIME, otherwise be outside all the time, pursue my other hobbies like cooking and gardening more fulsomely, etc., etc., etc.

Has anyone else had the experience where after three to four days of billing 8+ hours, you struggle to put two thoughts together? By day 4, you're almost hoping no conversation goes beyond "how's it going," because you know you'll zone out. How do people bill 12 hour days in succession?

[5ky]

Has anyone else had the experience where after three to four days of billing 8+ hours, you struggle to put two thoughts together? By day 4, you're almost hoping no conversation goes beyond "how's it going," because you know you'll zone out. How do people bill 12 hour days in succession?

you get used to it, really. i was like that when i started but it got easier the longer i was there. just think of it like exercising!

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone else had the experience where after three to four days of billing 8+ hours, you struggle to put two thoughts together? By day 4, you're almost hoping no conversation goes beyond "how's it going," because you know you'll zone out. How do people bill 12 hour days in succession?

you get used to it, really. i was like that when i started but it got easier the longer i was there. just think of it like exercising!

Thanks! I've never really worked more than 6 hours a day before on a consistent level. Law school was about 4 on average, college 2. Big transition. You'r performance is measured on how much work you put in as opposed to one finished product, which is very different from everything before.

[los blancos]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

I went the total opposite direction and realized there is basically no amount of money you can pay me for my free time. An extra hour/day may only be 10% more work but it's also like 25% less liesure time and chillin with my wife/friends/family is the only priority. Think the single dumbest thing about our culture is our leftover puritanical deification of "hard work" in a vacuum.

(Exception: if I find work I actually enjoy that means something to me, which is pretty much impossible in private practice, at least for me)

[Anonymous User]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

I went the total opposite direction and realized there is basically no amount of money you can pay me for my free time. An extra hour/day may only be 10% more work but it's also like 25% less liesure time and chillin with my wife/friends/family is the only priority.

(Exception: if I find work I actually enjoy that means something to me, which is pretty much impossible in private practice, at least to me)

I was the opposite. If you don't have kids, what would you be doing in your free time? More important to me than the time is the freedom. As a child, I had a lot of problems with authority and was always in trouble. Even now, the get x done by x date is the only system that I've done well in.

[Anonymous User]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

I went the total opposite direction and realized there is basically no amount of money you can pay me for my free time. An extra hour/day may only be 10% more work but it's also like 25% less liesure time and chillin with my wife/friends/family is the only priority.

(Exception: if I find work I actually enjoy that means something to me, which is pretty much impossible in private practice, at least to me)

I was the opposite. If you don't have kids, what would you be doing in your free time? More important to me than the time is the freedom. As a child, I had a lot of problems with authority and was always in trouble. Even now, the get x done by x date is the only system that I've done well in.

I am always surprised when people say this, but I get a lot since I don't have kids, and my response is "SO MUCH!" I really try to limit my hours at work, and am even considering going to a reduced hours schedule (with reduced pay) so I have even more free time to pursue my interests outside of work. I actually like practicing....I just like like other things more.

(I am the person above who wants to be outside all the time and pursue my hobbies.)

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, I mean, I don't have kids, but that doesn't mean there aren't a ton of other things I like to do with my free time other than work.

[Anonymous User]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

I went the total opposite direction and realized there is basically no amount of money you can pay me for my free time. An extra hour/day may only be 10% more work but it's also like 25% less liesure time and chillin with my wife/friends/family is the only priority.

(Exception: if I find work I actually enjoy that means something to me, which is pretty much impossible in private practice, at least to me)

I was the opposite. If you don't have kids, what would you be doing in your free time? More important to me than the time is the freedom. As a child, I had a lot of problems with authority and was always in trouble. Even now, the get x done by x date is the only system that I've done well in.

I am always surprised when people say this, but I get a lot since I don't have kids, and my response is "SO MUCH!" I really try to limit my hours at work, and am even considering going to a reduced hours schedule (with reduced pay) so I have even more free time to pursue my interests outside of work. I actually like practicing....I just like like other things more.

(I am the person above who wants to be outside all the time and pursue my hobbies.)

I worked at a place where an attorney biked all the time, and everyone gave him shit

[RaceJudicata]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

I went the total opposite direction and realized there is basically no amount of money you can pay me for my free time. An extra hour/day may only be 10% more work but it's also like 25% less liesure time and chillin with my wife/friends/family is the only priority.

(Exception: if I find work I actually enjoy that means something to me, which is pretty much impossible in private practice, at least to me)

I was the opposite. If you don't have kids, what would you be doing in your free time? More important to me than the time is the freedom. As a child, I had a lot of problems with authority and was always in trouble. Even now, the get x done by x date is the only system that I've done well in.

Find a hobby/interest... Life is too short to be a drone.

[Anonymous User]

Accountants also bitch about their "tax season" hours which last two months which are still considerably less than biglaw normal.

Depends on the type of accounting. Big 4 is SPS for 50k 12 months a year. Burnout looks like biglaw's for a reason.

But if you want to make 50k in a low COL area and work 40 hours most weeks accounting can be a solid option.

Sure entry level accounting is 50-60k in NYC at the big 4 accounting firms. But if you get your CPA and exit out within your first 3 years, you could easily pull 80k+ in some in-house accounting role.

But probably not in a low COL area. Meanwhile entry level law is 160-200k and you've got the same "just do a few years and exit to sweet in-house gig" story, which of course isn't always true in either profession.

But then you have to go to law school for another 3 years at no income (and probably a shit ton of debt) to make this $160K (which is likely to be in NYC unless you have ties to a market paying secondary market).

By the time you're done paying law school loans, if you never went to law school, you're probably making mid 100s now as an accounting/finance manager in some f500 in NY + all the money you made in the in between years

I know I'm not supposed to post here, but there was talk of accounting. The thing about "accounting" is that it's a freaking HUGE field, if you're a smart, competent person, you'll be able to wind up in a pretty solid position at a company, or you can start your own firm. Pretty much every single company needs an accountant at least monthly. Even small companies need at least one accountant/financial person full time. Only really big companies will have an inhouse legal department, which really limits your options if that's your goal. "Accounting" is a lot more than debits and credits and taxes. There's the normal audit/bookkeeping/tax stuff, on top of that there's internal control/sox compliance, risk management (growing field), business continuity, budgeting/forecasting/financial planning, etc. It's really extremely diverse, which is ultimately what drove me away from law and into accounting.

[crazycanuck]

Anon above...

[Anonymous User]

Hard work is not inherently virtuous or admirable, no matter how much boomers pretend it is.

I spent all of college thinking that everyone who worked a 40-hour week (or, god forbid, more) was a brainwashed drone too stupid to see that we're all going to die and luxury goods don't really matter. Like I honestly could not understand what would compel people to get an hours-intensive job instead of, like, making art. Now I work long hours, actually more or less enjoy it, and look down on people who prioritize leisure time. To this day I have no idea how that happened.

I went the total opposite direction and realized there is basically no amount of money you can pay me for my free time. An extra hour/day may only be 10% more work but it's also like 25% less liesure time and chillin with my wife/friends/family is the only priority.

(Exception: if I find work I actually enjoy that means something to me, which is pretty much impossible in private practice, at least to me)

I was the opposite. If you don't have kids, what would you be doing in your free time? More important to me than the time is the freedom. As a child, I had a lot of problems with authority and was always in trouble. Even now, the get x done by x date is the only system that I've done well in.

Find a hobby/interest... Life is too short to be a drone.

No, I have interests and am generally a multitasker, which is something I should work on. I guess my point was that it's not that hard pursuing your interests in big law. You could get concert tickets, sport tickets, go biking, etc. because you have relative freedom over your schedule except when things come up. You have to cancel things from time to time, but it's definitely not impossible. Also, if you have friends in town, it can actually be easier to hang out with them. Most people don't live in the center of the city, and most firms are in the center of the city so you're already in a convenient spot. I think another thing is most people don't have interests that are that unique, and people tend to like the same things to varying degrees - gourmet food, sports, theater, etc. such that it's not hard to involve your coworkers in these activities to make sneaking out easier.

[Anonymous User]

I seriously can never tell when people want stuff by (especially when they email me late at night/after I've left the office). Asking is getting old and I feel it like it makes me sound like I'm lazy. Ugh.

[gp86]

No, I have interests and am generally a multitasker, which is something I should work on. I guess my point was that it's not that hard pursuing your interests in big law. You could get concert tickets, sport tickets, go biking, etc. because you have relative freedom over your schedule except when things come up. You have to cancel things from time to time, but it's definitely not impossible. Also, if you have friends in town, it can actually be easier to hang out with them. Most people don't live in the center of the city, and most firms are in the center of the city so you're already in a convenient spot. I think another thing is most people don't have interests that are that unique, and people tend to like the same things to varying degrees - gourmet food, sports, theater, etc. such that it's not hard to involve your coworkers in these activities to make sneaking out easier.

Lol at firm office locations being the social fabric of our lives. I feel like I have no control over my ability to schedule anything, and I've long accepted that Monday-Thursday is essentially written out of my life. But I'm in my late twenties and, well, I do stuff - I still average 10 or so weddings/bachelor parties a year, group trips, etc. I hate that I often have to cancel or am constantly on the verge of cancelling, and when I don't cancel I hate that I feel like I'm messing up at work by ducking out on a deal.

Obviously, not being able to be your child for his or her first words or soccer game is worse than not being able to day drink all Saturday, but at least when you're settled down you're not really making plans you'd have to cancel in the first place.

[Anonymous User]

I am always surprised when people say this, but I get a lot since I don't have kids, and my response is "SO MUCH!" I really try to limit my hours at work, and am even considering going to a reduced hours schedule (with reduced pay) so I have even more free time to pursue my interests outside of work. I actually like practicing....I just like like other things more.

(I am the person above who wants to be outside all the time and pursue my hobbies.)

I worked at a place where an attorney biked all the time, and everyone gave him shit[/quote]

Yeah, I used to work at an NY-based firm that will remain nameless like that too where I got shit for actually having interests outside work/not being available all the time. I don't work there anymore (by choice).

[Nebby]

I was the opposite. If you don't have kids, what would you be doing in your free time? More important to me than the time is the freedom. As a child, I had a lot of problems with authority and was always in trouble. Even now, the get x done by x date is the only system that I've done well in.

Crush nerds in video games, get pumped in the gym, cook meals, etc.

[Desert Fox]

[Tiago Splitter]

The "you'd just waste your time anyway" associates are the biggest uncle toms.

Either them or the ones who think billing 2500 a year instead of 2000 means that after four years you'll automatically be a full year ahead.

[rpupkin]

The "you'd just waste your time anyway" associates are the biggest uncle toms.

There are associates who actually say that?