2014 Texas OCI (UT and other schools bidding on TX) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone familiar with Paul Hastings' turnaround time?

[Anonymous User]

Any input on BB v. K&L v. V&E v. GDC (all Dallas) for litigation?

Anyone?

Didn't you already ask this? Consensus was fairly strong, iirc: GDC > BB > VE > KL

Is there a similar comparison in this thread for Houston lit?

[Anonymous User]

Post-CB, snail-mail ding from Hunton & Williams (Dallas).

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I am waiting on Beck Redden as well. I am tempted to email the recruiter as they said they would get back to us this week. I interviewed late last week. I know of 3 others from UT that interviewed there as well.


Curious if you contacted them or not?


Also curious. Still waiting.


I'm assuming snail mail rejections at this point, had my cb a long time ago


*I have not, but I heard somebody who got their rejection snail mail yesterday

[Anonymous User]

Come on JW (Htown)....I need to know! CB was 2 weeks ago!

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I am waiting on Beck Redden as well. I am tempted to email the recruiter as they said they would get back to us this week. I interviewed late last week. I know of 3 others from UT that interviewed there as well.


Curious if you contacted them or not?


Also curious. Still waiting.


I'm assuming snail mail rejections at this point, had my cb a long time ago


*I have not, but I heard somebody who got their rejection snail mail yesterday

In TX? If so I guess out of state people should be hearing tomorrow or so...great...

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
I am waiting on Beck Redden as well. I am tempted to email the recruiter as they said they would get back to us this week. I interviewed late last week. I know of 3 others from UT that interviewed there as well.


Curious if you contacted them or not?


Also curious. Still waiting.


I'm assuming snail mail rejections at this point, had my cb a long time ago


*I have not, but I heard somebody who got their rejection snail mail yesterday

In TX? If so I guess out of state people should be hearing tomorrow or so...great...

Yes in TX, but I still haven't received mine in Texas.. not sure if they are doing some kind of waitlist thing

[Anonymous User]

Any input on BB v. K&L v. V&E v. GDC (all Dallas) for litigation?

Anyone?

Didn't you already ask this? Consensus was fairly strong, iirc: GDC > BB > VE > KL

Is there a similar comparison in this thread for Houston lit?

Not that I'm aware of - Houston has much better (and more) lit boutiques, though, so the calculus is very different. Are you trying to decide between any firms in particular?

[Anonymous User]

Come on JW (Htown)....I need to know! CB was 2 weeks ago!

I'm further out than that. I'm guessing they are waiting to see everyone they call back before making any decisions.

[Anonymous User]

Currently have B&G, AK, V&E, and BB. All Houston. Any thoughts for someone who is unsure on litigation v. corporate work long-term? Any that have better exit options/partnership chances? (BG/AK is second-half only; V&E/BB is first-half only) Thanks!

Bump. Any thoughts much appreciated!

Neither of BB or V&E have much of a lit. department anymore, though BB is the stronger of the two. The trade off there is that BB is really no longer a top tier corporate shop in Houston anymore (V&E and Latham are now). That being said, BB is still a solid firm.

I feel that AK is slightly above B&G in both lit and corporate work in Houston. Both will give you good exposure to solid mid size deals with some larger and more complex deals thrown in (probably more complex overall at AK). Both still have sizable and good lit groups as well.

Really, congrats, you have four great choices and with the split you will be able to do, you will get great exposure no matter what you choose.

Where are people getting the impression that BB doesn't have much of a lit department anymore? As a former BB Houston litigator I can say that's not at all the case - the firm is trying to build it up (and it's already larger than corporate).

I think lit in Houston slowed down 2010-2012 and students accordingly heavily went into corporate.

[Anonymous User]

Currently have B&G, AK, V&E, and BB. All Houston. Any thoughts for someone who is unsure on litigation v. corporate work long-term? Any that have better exit options/partnership chances? (BG/AK is second-half only; V&E/BB is first-half only) Thanks!

Bump. Any thoughts much appreciated!

Neither of BB or V&E have much of a lit. department anymore, though BB is the stronger of the two. The trade off there is that BB is really no longer a top tier corporate shop in Houston anymore (V&E and Latham are now). That being said, BB is still a solid firm.

I feel that AK is slightly above B&G in both lit and corporate work in Houston. Both will give you good exposure to solid mid size deals with some larger and more complex deals thrown in (probably more complex overall at AK). Both still have sizable and good lit groups as well.

Really, congrats, you have four great choices and with the split you will be able to do, you will get great exposure no matter what you choose.

Where are people getting the impression that BB doesn't have much of a lit department anymore? As a former BB Houston litigator I can say that's not at all the case - the firm is trying to build it up (and it's already larger than corporate).

I think lit in Houston slowed down 2010-2012 and students accordingly heavily went into corporate.

What are your thoughts on Fulbright compared to BB and V&E?

[Anonymous User]

What are your thoughts on Fulbright compared to BB and V&E?

It's a weaker firm overall compared to BB and VE. It still has a strong litigation practice, but it's a small corporate player. All of my friends there are pretty happy, though - definitely more of a sociable place than BB. It's a very compartmentalized place, though, which is probably the most important thing to consider.

I'd say that during the recession Fulbright gambled on its traditional litigation strength and lost as big law litigation began to slow (which I believe is a permanent structural change), VE bet on corporate work as the future growth area of large law firms (and won), and BB sort of stood its ground.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody received any rejections from Gibson Dunn Dallas?

[Anonymous User]

What are your thoughts on Fulbright compared to BB and V&E?

It's a weaker firm overall compared to BB and VE. It still has a strong litigation practice, but it's a small corporate player. All of my friends there are pretty happy, though - definitely more of a sociable place than BB. It's a very compartmentalized place, though, which is probably the most important thing to consider.

I'd say that during the recession Fulbright gambled on its traditional litigation strength and lost as big law litigation began to slow (which I believe is a permanent structural change), VE bet on corporate work as the future growth area of large law firms (and won), and BB sort of stood its ground.

Since practice area growth seems so cyclical, what's a firm like V&E do if/when corporate work declines and it doesn't really have a litigation practice? Is this cause for concern, seeing that the firm is essentially hedging its bets on big ticket corporate energy to continue to bring work?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have thoughts on picking litigation v. corporate work in Texas as a career move (for someone who's fairly indifferent)? A lot of my firms seem to only be good in one or the other practice area, and they have conflicting start dates.

[Anonymous User]

Since practice area growth seems so cyclical, what's a firm like V&E do if/when corporate work declines and it doesn't really have a litigation practice? Is this cause for concern, seeing that the firm is essentially hedging its bets on big ticket corporate energy to continue to bring work?

Litigation has declined for several reasons (tort reform, alternative dispute resolution, etc) but the big problem is that once clients got a taste of alternate fee structures they resisted to go back to paying full price (and for paying for juniors to do tons of doc review). Clients aren't as fee-sensitive for transactional work; in fact, the growth of Latham and other national firms indicates they're fine paying higher rates for important deals. Practices are of course cyclical, but it's pretty much understood that transactional work has the most long term growth potential for large firms.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have thoughts on picking litigation v. corporate work in Texas as a career move (for someone who's fairly indifferent)? A lot of my firms seem to only be good in one or the other practice area, and they have conflicting start dates.

I'm a graduate who is familiar with the state of the lit market in Texas, so I can offer my opinion. I'll also cover the question above about V&E. Note that others may see things differently.

Based on my observations, I believe Texas lit is undergoing structural changes right now. A lot of the firms that used to have sizable lit practices no longer have the same headcount they once did. This is for several reasons: billable hour pressure; outsourcing doc review and the rise of doc review technology; the general slowdown in lit following the financial crisis; tort reform (for some lower end lit practices), and various other factors.

These factors have led to different responses from firms. Some like V&E have decided to focus more on high end transactional work. While I don't know whether V&E has run any litigators off, it does appear that they are less inclined to replace the partners who have left. Many of these partners have gone to high end lit boutiques where they can focus on big ticket lit matters while offering a more flexible billing structure for their clients. This is partly why we are now seeing a lot of great boutiques take top honors in the chambers rankings. They have the big firm chops without the big firm limitations, and with document review changes, those partners no longer need the legions of associates to be doc review drones but can perform well with a much leaner model.

Other firms have retained a stronger commitment to lit in order to retain their full service character. While some firms focus on certain high dollar practices, some firms think it's a good idea to be able to offer one-stop representation to their clients and focus on cross selling to generate business for their litigators. I don't have any special insight into how successful a strategy this is.

Still other firms are starting to focus their lit groups on key sectors to retain higher billable hour rates and a competitive advantage over general commercial lit groups. This has caused some firms to start shedding their less productive lit people to become more compact, but they still tend to have large lit groups as a whole. One issue here is that the partners in these practices are susceptible to being poached by other firms who identify a need and are willing to pay more to get partners to lateral, so it has resulted in more turnover for some firms.

As for your question about whether to pursue lit or corporate, see if you can try them both. While the lit market is changing, many firms will have solid lit departments in the near future. Conventional wisdom says the lit boutiques are the place to be for lit right now, and I generally agree that some of the boutiques are really worth a look for someone seriously considering litigation. But some boutiques are less stable than others because there are fewer partners and it therefore may be more difficult for a boutique to absorb significant losses, but YMMV. I think some firms will work on retaining solid litigation practices, but you should do your homework and see which ones are more committed to it. Also, keep in mind we are probably still going to see lit practices shrink because of changes in technology, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing for lit associates (other than there being fewer lit positions generally).

As for long term career prospects, I don't think the lit options are any worse in Texas than anywhere else, though a lot of people seem down on those options, so it may not be a good thing. As a general matter, I would say general commercial lit is going to make you less marketable than doing corporate or certain kinds of specialized lit like IP. I suggest you research some of the threads on here about lit exit options to see what you think. In spite of the Texas market's changes, I think the general advice about exit options still applies.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you to the two above posters - very informative and helpful.

[Anonymous User]

JW HOU mail ding

Edit: post CB

[Anonymous User]

anybody do Perkins Coie Dallas Cb and hear anything??

[Anonymous User]

anybody do Perkins Coie Dallas Cb and hear anything??

I had a callback in late August and am waiting (not so) patiently...

[Anonymous User]

Thompson Knight snail mail ding today

[Anonymous User]

Thompson Knight snail mail ding today

Dallas or Houston?

[Anonymous User]

Thompson Knight snail mail ding today

Dallas or Houston?

Houston

[Anonymous User]

any T14 BB Dallas offers ?