Columbia EIP 2014 Forum

[lunaraeon]

The CLR publishable notes program is a joke right? As in, they don't publish any non-LR persons stuff basically ever.

Not last year, but they're trying earnestly to make it viable. You eventually go into an anonymous pile; all things equal, you have as much chance as anyone else. But you'll have less support from LR, your journal likely is on a much slower schedule even if you have a mandatory note and probably can't help as much, and publication isn't easy even for LR peeps since there's like 12 notes published or something. But it's doable.

(Also, did that really need to be anonymous? )

[Anonymous User]

Wow, thanks. I might have taken my counselor at her word too- seems like they're phenomenal at giving bad advice.

I don't have SoCal ties but I do have really strong NorCal ties (but firms in that region seem more selective). Does that count for these LA firms or is it more tenuous? Counselor said that coming from NorCal or SoCal would have exactly the same effect, but now I'm beginning to doubt everything.

I've been asking Rising 3Ls and others about this same thing.

Specifies ties do matter to Los Angeles firms. That said, it's not as insular as San Francisco (though perhaps as much or slightly more so than Silicon Valley). You're certainly not out, and you're a better case than most. Just be ready with a carefully crafted narrative why you love California, the work you want is in LA, and so on... you have a chance. If you genuinely want Los Angeles the most, I'm sure it'll come across and you'll be fine.

Just be aware it's not as good as an LA native's, and there seem to be a pretty sizable group of CLS students from LA our year. Awareness is much different than not having a chance. Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

Alright, basically finished bid list ready to be picked at. I had the opposite OCS experience of most people, they were perfectly fine with me reaching, even for firms I assumed would be straight out because of grades.

Recap: 3.47 with bimodal grades, K-JD, no LR, average interviewer. Looking for transactional. First failed bid # in parentheses. Bolded firms I feel I'd have an easier time with, fit-wise; I'd be more sad about missing those than the others. All NYC.

1. (3) Kirkland
2. (3) Shearman
3. (4) Sidley Austin
4. (5) Gibson Dunn
5. (7) Skadden
6. (9) Debevoise
7. (10) White & Case
8. (11) Weil
9. (11) Jones Day
10. (11) Clifford Chance
11. (13) Milbank
12. (13) Latham
13. (15) SullCrom
14. (17) Willkie Farr
15. (18) Ropes & Gray
16. (21) Davis Polk
17. (19) Freshfields
18. (20) Cleary
19. (20) Paul Weiss
20. (20) Akin Gump
21. (22) Cadwalader
22. (*) Simpson Thacher
23. (26) Cravath
24. (30) Wachtell

If I'm missing anything notable, reaching too much, have something weak for transactional (I tried to reference Chambers but it's not perfect), etc., do let me know. The firms around 20 are where I ran into the biggest crunch.

For the empty space (25-30, though with a couple firms moved down as it expands), I was thinking I would do a few of the London offices I'd prefer, to cut down on what I have to pick up, and some of the NY firms that can be snagged that low (Dentons and Dechert were suggested by OCS) as extra safeties so I'll have a job.

For what it's worth, OCS's biggest suggestion was trying to fit a firm or two I had to remove to make bid numbers work (e.g., Schulte (17FFB), Cahill (17FFB), or Fried Frank (21FFB)). Anyone see a way to do that? If they aren't on my bid list I'll mail my stuff or see if I can work the hospitality suite.

- Nick Slade

[Anonymous User]

Alright, basically finished bid list ready to be picked at. I had the opposite OCS experience of most people, they were perfectly fine with me reaching, even for firms I assumed would be straight out because of grades.

Recap: 3.47 with bimodal grades, K-JD, no LR, average interviewer. Looking for transactional. First failed bid # in parentheses. Bolded firms I feel I'd have an easier time with, fit-wise; I'd be more sad about missing those than the others. All NYC.

1. (3) Kirkland
2. (3) Shearman
3. (4) Sidley Austin
4. (5) Gibson Dunn
5. (7) Skadden
6. (9) Debevoise
7. (10) White & Case
8. (11) Weil
9. (11) Jones Day
10. (11) Clifford Chance
11. (13) Milbank
12. (13) Latham
13. (15) SullCrom
14. (17) Willkie Farr
15. (18) Ropes & Gray
16. (21) Davis Polk
17. (19) Freshfields
18. (20) Cleary
19. (20) Paul Weiss
20. (20) Akin Gump
21. (22) Cadwalader
22. (*) Simpson Thacher
23. (26) Cravath
24. (30) Wachtell

If I'm missing anything notable, reaching too much, have something weak for transactional (I tried to reference Chambers but it's not perfect), etc., do let me know. The firms around 20 are where I ran into the biggest crunch.

For the empty space (25-30, though with a couple firms moved down as it expands), I was thinking I would do a few of the London offices I'd prefer, to cut down on what I have to pick up, and some of the NY firms that can be snagged that low (Dentons and Dechert were suggested by OCS) as extra safeties so I'll have a job.

For what it's worth, OCS's biggest suggestion was trying to fit a firm or two I had to remove to make bid numbers work (e.g., Schulte (17FFB), Cahill (17FFB), or Fried Frank (21FFB)). Anyone see a way to do that? If they aren't on my bid list I'll mail my stuff or see if I can work the hospitality suite.

- Nick Slade

OCS told me that Cleary was missed at like 15 in earlier years. I'd suggest bumping that up to be safe since you have a strong preference for it.

[Anonymous User]

Alright, basically finished bid list ready to be picked at. I had the opposite OCS experience of most people, they were perfectly fine with me reaching, even for firms I assumed would be straight out because of grades.

Recap: 3.47 with bimodal grades, K-JD, no LR, average interviewer. Looking for transactional. First failed bid # in parentheses. Bolded firms I feel I'd have an easier time with, fit-wise; I'd be more sad about missing those than the others. All NYC.

1. (3) Kirkland
2. (3) Shearman
3. (4) Sidley Austin
4. (5) Gibson Dunn
5. (7) Skadden
6. (9) Debevoise
7. (10) White & Case
8. (11) Weil
9. (11) Jones Day
10. (11) Clifford Chance
11. (13) Milbank
12. (13) Latham
13. (15) SullCrom
14. (17) Willkie Farr
15. (18) Ropes & Gray
16. (21) Davis Polk
17. (19) Freshfields
18. (20) Cleary
19. (20) Paul Weiss
20. (20) Akin Gump
21. (22) Cadwalader
22. (*) Simpson Thacher
23. (26) Cravath
24. (30) Wachtell

If I'm missing anything notable, reaching too much, have something weak for transactional (I tried to reference Chambers but it's not perfect), etc., do let me know. The firms around 20 are where I ran into the biggest crunch.

For the empty space (25-30, though with a couple firms moved down as it expands), I was thinking I would do a few of the London offices I'd prefer, to cut down on what I have to pick up, and some of the NY firms that can be snagged that low (Dentons and Dechert were suggested by OCS) as extra safeties so I'll have a job.

For what it's worth, OCS's biggest suggestion was trying to fit a firm or two I had to remove to make bid numbers work (e.g., Schulte (17FFB), Cahill (17FFB), or Fried Frank (21FFB)). Anyone see a way to do that? If they aren't on my bid list I'll mail my stuff or see if I can work the hospitality suite.

- Nick Slade

Looks ok to me (not a 3L though). On principal, I'd be careful about relying too much on OCS's advice--if they were so wrong upthread about telling people to be too conservative, maybe they could be wrong in the other direction when they say you're not reaching too much. I'm not sure how realistic S&C is at 3.47, and it's in a prime space, so that might be one way to help accommodate the 17-21 FFB firms you mention.

I agree with bumping Cleary up some.

[Anonymous User]

I'd be nervous about Paul Weiss too, if you really wanted it.

It's hard finding room to cut firms in the top 20 though, you're right. If I HAD to cut one, I'd pick SullCrom, and if you wanted two other firms to replace with Schulte/Cahill I guess I'd say Jones Day or Clifford Chance (for someone specifically seeking corporate). It's a narrow judgment call though and either way's a good choice.

[Anonymous User]

Alright, basically finished bid list ready to be picked at. I had the opposite OCS experience of most people, they were perfectly fine with me reaching, even for firms I assumed would be straight out because of grades.

Recap: 3.47 with bimodal grades, K-JD, no LR, average interviewer. Looking for transactional. First failed bid # in parentheses. Bolded firms I feel I'd have an easier time with, fit-wise; I'd be more sad about missing those than the others. All NYC.

1. (3) Kirkland
2. (3) Shearman
3. (4) Sidley Austin
4. (5) Gibson Dunn
5. (7) Skadden
6. (9) Debevoise
7. (10) White & Case
8. (11) Weil
9. (11) Jones Day
10. (11) Clifford Chance
11. (13) Milbank
12. (13) Latham
13. (15) SullCrom
14. (17) Willkie Farr
15. (18) Ropes & Gray
16. (21) Davis Polk
17. (19) Freshfields
18. (20) Cleary
19. (20) Paul Weiss
20. (20) Akin Gump
21. (22) Cadwalader
22. (*) Simpson Thacher
23. (26) Cravath
24. (30) Wachtell

If I'm missing anything notable, reaching too much, have something weak for transactional (I tried to reference Chambers but it's not perfect), etc., do let me know. The firms around 20 are where I ran into the biggest crunch.

For the empty space (25-30, though with a couple firms moved down as it expands), I was thinking I would do a few of the London offices I'd prefer, to cut down on what I have to pick up, and some of the NY firms that can be snagged that low (Dentons and Dechert were suggested by OCS) as extra safeties so I'll have a job.

For what it's worth, OCS's biggest suggestion was trying to fit a firm or two I had to remove to make bid numbers work (e.g., Schulte (17FFB), Cahill (17FFB), or Fried Frank (21FFB)). Anyone see a way to do that? If they aren't on my bid list I'll mail my stuff or see if I can work the hospitality suite.

- Nick Slade

OCS told me that Cleary was missed at like 15 in earlier years. I'd suggest bumping that up to be safe since you have a strong preference for it.

Wait I'm confused as to why Cleary's first failed bid was 20 last year (unless there was a specific circumstance) and why we have to bid it so much higher than that?

[Anonymous User]

Alright, basically finished bid list ready to be picked at. I had the opposite OCS experience of most people, they were perfectly fine with me reaching, even for firms I assumed would be straight out because of grades.

Recap: 3.47 with bimodal grades, K-JD, no LR, average interviewer. Looking for transactional. First failed bid # in parentheses. Bolded firms I feel I'd have an easier time with, fit-wise; I'd be more sad about missing those than the others. All NYC.

1. (3) Kirkland
2. (3) Shearman
3. (4) Sidley Austin
4. (5) Gibson Dunn
5. (7) Skadden
6. (9) Debevoise
7. (10) White & Case
8. (11) Weil
9. (11) Jones Day
10. (11) Clifford Chance
11. (13) Milbank
12. (13) Latham
13. (15) SullCrom
14. (17) Willkie Farr
15. (18) Ropes & Gray
16. (21) Davis Polk
17. (19) Freshfields
18. (20) Cleary
19. (20) Paul Weiss
20. (20) Akin Gump
21. (22) Cadwalader
22. (*) Simpson Thacher
23. (26) Cravath
24. (30) Wachtell

If I'm missing anything notable, reaching too much, have something weak for transactional (I tried to reference Chambers but it's not perfect), etc., do let me know. The firms around 20 are where I ran into the biggest crunch.

For the empty space (25-30, though with a couple firms moved down as it expands), I was thinking I would do a few of the London offices I'd prefer, to cut down on what I have to pick up, and some of the NY firms that can be snagged that low (Dentons and Dechert were suggested by OCS) as extra safeties so I'll have a job.

For what it's worth, OCS's biggest suggestion was trying to fit a firm or two I had to remove to make bid numbers work (e.g., Schulte (17FFB), Cahill (17FFB), or Fried Frank (21FFB)). Anyone see a way to do that? If they aren't on my bid list I'll mail my stuff or see if I can work the hospitality suite.

- Nick Slade

OCS told me that Cleary was missed at like 15 in earlier years. I'd suggest bumping that up to be safe since you have a strong preference for it.

Wait I'm confused as to why Cleary's first failed bid was 20 last year (unless there was a specific circumstance) and why we have to bid it so much higher than that?

I don't think we have to in general. OP (Nick Slade) in particular just wanted to be totally sure to get it, for subjective reasons.

[Anonymous User]

Another bidlist to critique.

3.64, Law Review, one year unrelated, unprestigious work experience. I don't think it's helpful to comment on my own interview skills, but if nothing else I've done a fair amount of practice. Goal is transactional in NYC (all firms below are NYC offices). Bolded firms are ones I really don't want to miss.

1. Skadden
2. Kirkland
3. Shearman
4. Boies corporate group
5. Jones Day
6. Sullivan & Cromwell
7. Gibson Dunn
8. Weil
9. Davis Polk
10. Milbank
11. Latham
12. Debevoise
13. Cleary
14. Morrison & Foerster
15. Willkie Farr
16. Cravath
17. Freshfields
18. Ropes & Gray
19. Cahill Gordon
20. Fried Frank
21. Cadwalader
22. O'Melveny
23. Simpson Thacher
24. Paul Weiss
25. Dechert
26. Wachtell
27. Schulte Roth
28. WilmerHale
29. Hughes Hubbard
30. DLA Piper

[Anonymous User]

Another bidlist to critique.

3.64, Law Review, one year unrelated, unprestigious work experience. I don't think it's helpful to comment on my own interview skills, but if nothing else I've done a fair amount of practice. Goal is transactional in NYC (all firms below are NYC offices). Bolded firms are ones I really don't want to miss.

1. Skadden
2. Kirkland
3. Shearman
4. Boies corporate group
5. Jones Day
6. Sullivan & Cromwell
7. Gibson Dunn
8. Weil
9. Davis Polk
10. Milbank
11. Latham
12. Debevoise
13. Cleary
14. Morrison & Foerster
15. Willkie Farr
16. Cravath
17. Freshfields
18. Ropes & Gray
19. Cahill Gordon
20. Fried Frank
21. Cadwalader
22. O'Melveny
23. Simpson Thacher
24. Paul Weiss
25. Dechert
26. Wachtell
27. Schulte Roth
28. WilmerHale
29. Hughes Hubbard
30. DLA Piper

Have you looked at the first bid failed list? There are quite a few here that can rearranged. Some are too high (Bois Corp, Skadden, S&C), some are too low (PW, Shulte, etc).

[Anonymous User]

I'd be nervous about Paul Weiss too, if you really wanted it.

It's hard finding room to cut firms in the top 20 though, you're right. If I HAD to cut one, I'd pick SullCrom, and if you wanted two other firms to replace with Schulte/Cahill I guess I'd say Jones Day or Clifford Chance (for someone specifically seeking corporate). It's a narrow judgment call though and either way's a good choice.

No particular attachment to PW, other than it being a good firm; I'll see if there's a way to shore it up (probably by dropping SullCrom since that helps with a few things).

Thanks for the rest of the comments, everyone. Anything else?

- NS

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

My counselor said usually only kent people apply to CA offices

Good God.

I only wish somebody would capture some of these ludicrous statements on video so we could see a counselor try and defend them.

Is Davis Polk worth a bid if ur Stone? Or is it like Sull Crom (needs higher Stone)? Trying to cut down on some tougher firms to make my bid list safer.

Definitely. It seems like they essentially require Stone but then it's way more of a crapshoot as to whether you'll get an offer.

Just got back from OCS. I was told to remove at least some of the bolded firms because they were too much of a stretch or too hard to get an interview, and pushed the idea of adding firms from a secondary market that I have ties to.

3.3ish GPA, solid WE. I thought my bidlist was pretty conservative. My overwhelming goal is to get a job, so I'm fine with taking out some of the fancy places if it will help me. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Proskauer Rose LLP (New York)
Kirkland & Ellis LLP (New York)
Sidley Austin LLP (New York)
Paul Hastings LLP
Kaye Scholer LLP
White & Case LLP (New York)
Arnold & Porter LLP (New York)
Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy LLP (New York)
Linklaters
Weil Gotshal & Manges LLP
Ropes & Gray
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP (New York)
Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
Winston & Strawn LLP
King & Spalding (New York)
Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP (New York)
Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft LLP
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP
Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP
Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP (New York)
Dechert LLP (NYC)
Cooley LLP
Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP (New York)
Seward & Kissel LLP
Arent Fox PLLC
Axinn, Veltrop & Harkrider LLP
Pryor Cashman LLP
Troutman Sanders LLP
Kelley Drye & Warren LLP

- Walt Jr.

Proskauer, Kirkland and Sidley are all fairly tough to get an interview with but they all definitely target 3.3 students, as do Milbank and Cahill. Don't enough about Ropes to say. Both S&K and Axinn regularly hire below 3.3 and might not even require bids. So as usual, I have no idea what OCS is getting at.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Another bidlist to critique.

3.64, Law Review, one year unrelated, unprestigious work experience. I don't think it's helpful to comment on my own interview skills, but if nothing else I've done a fair amount of practice. Goal is transactional in NYC (all firms below are NYC offices). Bolded firms are ones I really don't want to miss.

1. Skadden
2. Kirkland
3. Shearman
4. Boies corporate group
5. Jones Day
6. Sullivan & Cromwell
7. Gibson Dunn
8. Weil
9. Davis Polk
10. Milbank
11. Latham
12. Debevoise
13. Cleary
14. Morrison & Foerster
15. Willkie Farr
16. Cravath
17. Freshfields
18. Ropes & Gray
19. Cahill Gordon
20. Fried Frank
21. Cadwalader
22. O'Melveny
23. Simpson Thacher
24. Paul Weiss
25. Dechert
26. Wachtell
27. Schulte Roth
28. WilmerHale
29. Hughes Hubbard
30. DLA Piper

You're without a doubt going to miss Paul Weiss, Schulte, Wilmer, Hughes Hubbard and dla piper here.

[Anonymous User]

Another bidlist to critique.

3.64, Law Review, one year unrelated, unprestigious work experience. I don't think it's helpful to comment on my own interview skills, but if nothing else I've done a fair amount of practice. Goal is transactional in NYC (all firms below are NYC offices). Bolded firms are ones I really don't want to miss.

....

Have you looked at the first bid failed list? There are quite a few here that can rearranged. Some are too high (Bois Corp, Skadden, S&C), some are too low (PW, Shulte, etc).

Bored and rearranged your list for you..

Old list (last bid failed) (difference from current position)
1. Skadden (7) (+6)
2. Kirkland (3) (+1)
3. Shearman (3) (0)
4. Boies corporate group (30+) (+>26)
5. Jones Day (11) (+6)
6. Sullivan & Cromwell (15) (+9)
7. Gibson Dunn (5) (-2)
8. Weil  (11) (+3)
9. Davis Polk (21) (+12)
10. Milbank (13) (+3)
11. Latham (13) (+2)
12. Debevoise (9) (-3)
13. Cleary (20) (+7)
14. Morrison & Foerster (16) (+2)
15. Willkie Farr (17) (+2)
16. Cravath (26) (+10)
17. Freshfields (19) (+2)
18. Ropes & Gray (18) (0)
19. Cahill Gordon (19) (0)
20. Fried Frank (21) (+1)
21. Cadwalader (22) (+1)
22. O'Melveny (25) (+3)
23. Simpson Thacher (30+) (+>7)
24. Paul Weiss (20) (-4)
25. Dechert (27) (+2)
26. Wachtell (30) (+4)
27. Schulte Roth (18) (-9)
28. WilmerHale (9) (-19)
29. Hughes Hubbard (29) (0)
30. dla piper (30) (0)
(Bolded the ones which you would have missed last year.)

Suggested change:
1. Kirkland (3) (+2)
2. Shearman (3) (+1)
3. Gibson Dunn (5) (+2)
4. Skadden (7) (+3)
5. Debevoise (9) (+4)
6. WilmerHale (9) (+3)
7. Jones Day (11) (+4)
8. Weil  (11) (+3)
9. Milbank (13) (+4)
10. Latham (13) (+3)
11. Sullivan & Cromwell (15) (+4)
12. Morrison & Foerster (16) (+4)
13. Willkie Farr (17) (+4)
14. Ropes & Gray (18) (+4)
15. Schulte Roth (18) (+3)
16. Cleary (20) (+4)
17. Davis Polk (21) (+4)
18. Freshfields (19) (+1)
19. Cahill Gordon (19) (0)
20. Paul Weiss (20) (0)
21. Fried Frank (21) (0)
22. Cadwalader (22) (0)
23. Cravath (26) (+3)
24. O'Melveny (25) (+1)
25. Dechert (27) (+2)
26. Simpson Thacher (30+) (+>7)
27. Hughes Hubbard (29) (+2)
28. Wachtell (30) (+2)
29. dla piper (30) (+1)
30. Boies corporate group (30+) (+>26)
(Bumped up the few that you bolded, as well as davis polk, which reduced interviews this year.)

[Anonymous User]

I've been asking Rising 3Ls and others about this same thing.

Specifies ties do matter to Los Angeles firms. That said, it's not as insular as San Francisco (though perhaps as much or slightly more so than Silicon Valley). You're certainly not out, and you're a better case than most. Just be ready with a carefully crafted narrative why you love California, the work you want is in LA, and so on... you have a chance. If you genuinely want Los Angeles the most, I'm sure it'll come across and you'll be fine.

Just be aware it's not as good as an LA native's, and there seem to be a pretty sizable group of CLS students from LA our year. Awareness is much different than not having a chance. Good luck.

Thanks a bunch. They should be paying you guys all the money that goes into OCS, haha.

[lunaraeon]

Another bidlist to critique.

3.64, Law Review, one year unrelated, unprestigious work experience. I don't think it's helpful to comment on my own interview skills, but if nothing else I've done a fair amount of practice. Goal is transactional in NYC (all firms below are NYC offices). Bolded firms are ones I really don't want to miss.

....

Have you looked at the first bid failed list? There are quite a few here that can rearranged. Some are too high (Bois Corp, Skadden, S&C), some are too low (PW, Shulte, etc).

Bored and rearranged your list for you..

Old list (last bid failed) (difference from current position)
1. Skadden (7) (+6)
2. Kirkland (3) (+1)
3. Shearman (3) (0)
4. Boies corporate group (30+) (+>26)
5. Jones Day (11) (+6)
6. Sullivan & Cromwell (15) (+9)
7. Gibson Dunn (5) (-2)
8. Weil  (11) (+3)
9. Davis Polk (21) (+12)
10. Milbank (13) (+3)
11. Latham (13) (+2)
12. Debevoise (9) (-3)
13. Cleary (20) (+7)
14. Morrison & Foerster (16) (+2)
15. Willkie Farr (17) (+2)
16. Cravath (26) (+10)
17. Freshfields (19) (+2)
18. Ropes & Gray (18) (0)
19. Cahill Gordon (19) (0)
20. Fried Frank (21) (+1)
21. Cadwalader (22) (+1)
22. O'Melveny (25) (+3)
23. Simpson Thacher (30+) (+>7)
24. Paul Weiss (20) (-4)
25. Dechert (27) (+2)
26. Wachtell (30) (+4)
27. Schulte Roth (18) (-9)
28. WilmerHale (9) (-19)
29. Hughes Hubbard (29) (0)
30. DLA Piper (30) (0)
(Bolded the ones which you would have missed last year.)

Suggested change:
1. Kirkland (3) (+2)
2. Shearman (3) (+1)
3. Gibson Dunn (5) (+2)
4. Skadden (7) (+3)
5. Debevoise (9) (+4)
6. WilmerHale (9) (+3)
7. Jones Day (11) (+4)
8. Weil  (11) (+3)
9. Milbank (13) (+4)
10. Latham (13) (+3)
11. Sullivan & Cromwell (15) (+4)
12. Morrison & Foerster (16) (+4)
13. Willkie Farr (17) (+4)
14. Ropes & Gray (18) (+4)
15. Schulte Roth (18) (+3)
16. Cleary (20) (+4)
17. Davis Polk (21) (+4)
18. Freshfields (19) (+1)
19. Cahill Gordon (19) (0)
20. Paul Weiss (20) (0)
21. Fried Frank (21) (0)
22. Cadwalader (22) (0)
23. Cravath (26) (+3)
24. O'Melveny (25) (+1)
25. Dechert (27) (+2)
26. Simpson Thacher (30+) (+>7)
27. Hughes Hubbard (29) (+2)
28. Wachtell (30) (+2)
29. DLA Piper (30) (+1)
30. Boies corporate group (30+) (+>26)
(Bumped up the few that you bolded, as well as davis polk, which reduced interviews this year.)

OP, this looks significantly better for you.

[itbdvorm]

Of course, that chart is also incredibly misleading, as it ignores stealth layoffs, etc.

Only because there continues to be such mis-information - the reality is that, other than a handful of hyper-elite boutiques (Wachtell, Williams & Connolly, et al) I am aware of people who were laid off, fired, pushed out unceremoniously, etc., at EVERY "safe" firm described. If you closely compare NALP numbers at DPW (a particular offender), STB, Skadden, etc. for times during that period you will see MASSIVE movements (i.e., same or reduced number of associates despite an influx of 100+ new associates).

Please, please do not confuse PR of handling economic recessions with reality. Abovethelaw reports on easily available information about firms who are experts in keeping things confidential.

If you actually read what was written, you'll see that the point was not whether an individual may be pushed out the door (as a side note, attorneys are almost never "laid off" from the firms you mentioned), but about firm stability and, more importantly, clients' perception thereof. Also, what's your point? You have more job security working at Wachtell than DPW, STB, or Skadden. Ok, cool, that is great and useful advice to about 6 people at CLS.

For the 99% of the class that does not have W&C or WLRK as a choice, stability in terms of the size of a summer class is an imperfect but useful data point.

Thanks for questioning my reading comprehension - now I'll question yours.

My point was that one firm's "layoffs" may be another firm's "pushed out the door." If one firm publicly announces layoffs of some number of people, with some amount of severance, and another firm tells the same (exponentially larger than usual) number of people that they no longer have a future there (not because they're not any good but for economic reasons, though unstated) and need to leave by X months from now (equal to the same amount of severance), what's the difference? Either way people are getting culled. And client perceptions (when clients are often banks, corporations, etc., that are making massive cuts themselves) are really that all of these firms are fine.

My point is that being the guy who says "oh, don't bid Weil or Latham because public layoffs, but DPW and Gibson Dunn are totally safe, and I'd rather bid Milbank / Willkie / Fried Frank" is not a wise rationale. All of those firms cut people in ways that varied widely in terms of brutality, and I'd have much more confidence in Weil and Latham being around 20 years from now than I would Milbank, Willkie and Fried Frank...

[Anonymous User]

So which counselors are the good ones (or the least bad)? I had some general interview questions but it's not worth it if the net result is negative.

[Anonymous User]

So which counselors are the good ones (or the least bad)? I had some general interview questions but it's not worth it if the net result is negative.

June Su suggested that I not use all of my bids.

[Anonymous User]

Lois Jeffers was pretty good. I can at least say I never heard some of the terrible things others have heard on here.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for questioning my reading comprehension - now I'll question yours.

My point was that one firm's "layoffs" may be another firm's "pushed out the door." If one firm publicly announces layoffs of some number of people, with some amount of severance, and another firm tells the same (exponentially larger than usual) number of people that they no longer have a future there (not because they're not any good but for economic reasons, though unstated) and need to leave by X months from now (equal to the same amount of severance), what's the difference? Either way people are getting culled. And client perceptions (when clients are often banks, corporations, etc., that are making massive cuts themselves) are really that all of these firms are fine.

My point is that being the guy who says "oh, don't bid Weil or Latham because public layoffs, but DPW and Gibson Dunn are totally safe, and I'd rather bid Milbank / Willkie / Fried Frank" is not a wise rationale. All of those firms cut people in ways that varied widely in terms of brutality, and I'd have much more confidence in Weil and Latham being around 20 years from now than I would Milbank, Willkie and Fried Frank...

Did you really just spend 3 paragraphs to say you'd rather work at a V10 than a V50?

[Anonymous User]

Marsha Diamond has helped me a lot. She hasn't given me any of this shit advice.

[Anonymous User]

So which counselors are the good ones (or the least bad)? I had some general interview questions but it's not worth it if the net result is negative.

June Su suggested that I not use all of my bids.

Wth? How did she rationalize giving that sort of advice??

Unbelievable.

I've heard Marsha Diamond is good.

[Anonymous User]

Just spoke with career services, and they suggested I actually add a couple more safetys to my list (while also asking me if I had considered Skadden, so kinda confused). Since they're due so soon, I thought I would post again to see if there are "reach" firms I should take off, and if so what "safety" or "match" firms I should add (and where, so that it doesn't screw up my list). I was thinking of taking Weil off. Any other suggestions?

I'm a 3.37, K-JD, minor diversity, solid interviewer.

1) Kirkland
2) Sherman
3) Sidley
4) Paul Hastings
5) Hogan
6) Kaye Scholer
7) White and Case
8 Clifford Chance
9) Jones Day
10) Weil*
11) Allen Overy
12) Milbank
13) Willkie
14) Ropes and Gray
15) Shulte Roth
16) Cahill
17) Akin Gump
18) Fried Frank
19) K&L Gates
20) Caldwalader
21) Kramer
22) Chadbourne
23) O'Melveny
24) Orrick
25) Dechert
26) Strook
27) Hughes Hubbard
28) Curtis, Mallet-Prevost
29) Dentons
30) Vinson-Elkin

-Joseph Anton

[Anonymous User]

I went to Marsha Diamond, and several law students disagreed with the bidding advice she gave me.

I've also heard good things about her beforehand though.

Maybe it's an echo chamber effect and her advice isn't that great, or maybe her advice was solid and law students don't know anything.

Basically I have no answers for anyone, much less myself.