Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit Forum

[harborleaguemvp]

Are you able to specify what market your firm is in?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

I have a question: how does Firm A view working at Firm B (when A and B are competitors in the same, smaller level market)? For instance, the main market where I'm looking has 5 main firms, 4 that really recruit at my school. If I work at one of the main 4, will that hurt/help my chances at an SA position with one of the others?

It shouldn't. Our market has splits all the time and we have all shared recruits. We understand that we are all as different as the students we hire and the student needs to decide which is the right place for them. It is part of my job to convince you that my firm is the right firm.

Can you say a little bit about the mechanics of splitting? I'm likely to end up doing it (I hope) since just about every firm in your market only has a 6 week program - how does it change the calculus in deciding who to take? Offer rates look low there too, is that because of splitting or are people just falling through the cracks/getting owned by firms that are having fights to the death for spots? How do firms view splitting between 2 cities, does that make y'all wary about a person's desire to be in that market? As always, thanks so much.

Generally, the firms decide between us who has 1st summer and who has 2nd. When we had a summer program (we are opting entirely for a fall 3L apprentice program now - Schola2Juris if you are interested) we only accepted the number of summers we thought we would hire. I don't like students having to duke it out for a smaller number of slots. Our market generally hires conservatively and avoids becoming over leveraged. This worked well for all of us during the recession. You will notice that very few had layoffs and we are all doing quite well. We are all very collegial and we do not fight to the death over recruits. As for splitting in another city, it happens. Again, we have 6 weeks to prove we are a better place for your career and life.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Are you able to specify what market your firm is in?

Mid South

[stratocophic]

Glad to see I was right, the curiosity was driving me nuts. Figured it had to be you though with all of the publicity you've gotten. How do you look at someone who has an offer with another firm (because of the unique nature of S2J)? I like the firm and its status in the city, but I don't think I'd be brave enough to cut another offer loose to chase a spot... Have you had to deal with that before?

I more meant summers having to fight it out than the firms, typo on my part, but glad to hear neither is really an issue. I did expect things to be pretty genteel down there.

[ms2010]

How often do you actually interview people from resume collects? Any advice you could provide that would increase chances of getting pulled by a firm that is only doing a resume collect and not an actual interview?

[Anonymous User]

How do you view 3Ls who get no-offered?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

How do you view 3Ls who get no-offered?

I understand that there are a variety of reasons a student may not receive an offer ITE. Not a negative at all.

[Hadlendale]

What if a 2L who is interviewing for a Summer SA at Fall OCI has no idea if he even wants to work in transaction or litigation? Should I express that I'm still up in the air in an interview or do I need to either lie or figure it out as soon as possible?

[schooner]

How do you view 3Ls who get no-offered?

I understand that there are a variety of reasons a student may not receive an offer ITE. Not a negative at all.

What's your advice for 3Ls who had to take a non-legal job in this economy but still want to get firm experience eventually? Is it possible? (One path I can imagine is non-legal job --> non-profit --> govt --> lateral hire at firm, but this could take years. Is there another, shorter way?)

[Anonymous User]

I blacked out at a firm event a few weeks ago. Was out of control. There were no partners there, just some juniors, the summers, and HR. Will word get back to the partnership? Is it all over? Should I prepare resume?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Glad to see I was right, the curiosity was driving me nuts. Figured it had to be you though with all of the publicity you've gotten. How do you look at someone who has an offer with another firm (because of the unique nature of S2J)? I like the firm and its status in the city, but I don't think I'd be brave enough to cut another offer loose to chase a spot... Have you had to deal with that before?

I more meant summers having to fight it out than the firms, typo on my part, but glad to hear neither is really an issue. I did expect things to be pretty genteel down there.

We designed our 3L apprentice training program timing with this issue in mind. We compressed the timeline and will make official job offers on the last day of the program - October 14th. That should fall within the student timeframe of needing to respond so you would actually be able to have two offers to consider. Really just adds a 3 way split in a market that already accepts and encourages splits. Since we are taking all the risk, students have nothing to lose but another chance and a lot to gain - practice training, scholarship, laptop, etc.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

How do you view 3Ls who get no-offered?

I understand that there are a variety of reasons a student may not receive an offer ITE. Not a negative at all.

What's your advice for 3Ls who had to take a non-legal job in this economy but still want to get firm experience eventually? Is it possible? (One path I can imagine is non-legal job --> non-profit --> govt --> lateral hire at firm, but this could take years. Is there another, shorter way?)

It is absolutely possible and I just recently hired such a lateral. You should network with people at firms in the market you want to be in and stay in touch with them. Contract attorney is another route to take. The firm can see your work ethic and get to know you. Then if a spot opens up you will be top of mind.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

I blacked out at a firm event a few weeks ago. Was out of control. There were no partners there, just some juniors, the summers, and HR. Will word get back to the partnership? Is it all over? Should I prepare resume?

Probably depends on the firm, but yes, I imagine the entire firm knows by now. Did your recruiter or anyone else talk to you about it? I won't sugar coat this. You made a really bad judgment call. I can't speak for your firm so don't know how seriously they take that. If you are worried, go talk candidly to your recruiter. S/he should be able to give you advice and help.

[quakeroats]

I blacked out at a firm event a few weeks ago. Was out of control. There were no partners there, just some juniors, the summers, and HR. Will word get back to the partnership? Is it all over? Should I prepare resume?

Probably depends on the firm, but yes, I imagine the entire firm knows by now. Did your recruiter or anyone else talk to you about it? I won't sugar coat this. You made a really bad judgment call. I can't speak for your firm so don't know how seriously they take that. If you are worried, go talk candidly to your recruiter. S/he should be able to give you advice and help.

This is one of the classic whatever-you-do-don't-do-this mistakes. If you do everything perfectly from here on out you might get an offer, but I'd plan to work elsewhere. Even if you get an offer you'll probably be that guy who passed out on Jägerbombs.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the candid replies. Good thing I'm splitting summers, I guess.

No one has spoken to me about it. Also, it was at an after party at a bar past midnight, if that changes the calculus at all.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a school on the East Coast because it was the best fit for me of the schools I visited, but I want to be in California after graduation. My main "tie" to the area is that my SO really wanted us to move to Cali for school and has always wanted to live there. I turned down a great school there because it just didn't feel right to me, but promised my SO we'd move there after graduation. Do you think this promise constitutes a "tie" to the area? Personally for me the promise means more than any family connection would.

Thanks for taking questions!

[quakeroats]

Thanks for the candid replies. Good thing I'm splitting summers, I guess.

No one has spoken to me about it. Also, it was at an after party at a bar past midnight, if that changes the calculus at all.

It doesn't. Never, ever do this again. Alcohol is a very sensitive subject for professionals. It's best to never let anyone you have a professional relationship with see you drinking more than a standard drink or two. If you can feel the effects of alcohol at all, you've gone too far. I suspect firms stage events with unlimited alcohol to see if there's anyone they shouldn't hire.

[UCLAtransfer]

It doesn't. Never, ever do this again. Alcohol is a very sensitive subject for professionals. It's best to never let anyone you have a professional relationship with see you drinking more than a standard drink or two. If you can feel the effects of alcohol at all, you've gone too far. I suspect firms stage events with unlimited alcohol to see if there's anyone they shouldn't hire.

+1

[stratocophic]

Glad to see I was right, the curiosity was driving me nuts. Figured it had to be you though with all of the publicity you've gotten. How do you look at someone who has an offer with another firm (because of the unique nature of S2J)? I like the firm and its status in the city, but I don't think I'd be brave enough to cut another offer loose to chase a spot... Have you had to deal with that before?

I more meant summers having to fight it out than the firms, typo on my part, but glad to hear neither is really an issue. I did expect things to be pretty genteel down there.

We designed our 3L apprentice training program timing with this issue in mind. We compressed the timeline and will make official job offers on the last day of the program - October 14th. That should fall within the student timeframe of needing to respond so you would actually be able to have two offers to consider. Really just adds a 3 way split in a market that already accepts and encourages splits. Since we are taking all the risk, students have nothing to lose but another chance and a lot to gain - practice training, scholarship, laptop, etc.

Oh wow... chalk another one up on the list of things of important things I've learned from this thread. I'd been really confused because although I understood the logic behind the program, I had thought you were sort of resigning yourself to the "scraps" (not that I think there's any appreciable difference between 90% of those with and without offers). If what you say is the case, it's more like you're forcing your way into the discussion against any firm... very cagey. Here's hoping you'll have an opening in one of practices I like next fall. Thanks a bunch for clearing that up for me.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Glad to see I was right, the curiosity was driving me nuts. Figured it had to be you though with all of the publicity you've gotten. How do you look at someone who has an offer with another firm (because of the unique nature of S2J)? I like the firm and its status in the city, but I don't think I'd be brave enough to cut another offer loose to chase a spot... Have you had to deal with that before?

I more meant summers having to fight it out than the firms, typo on my part, but glad to hear neither is really an issue. I did expect things to be pretty genteel down there.

We designed our 3L apprentice training program timing with this issue in mind. We compressed the timeline and will make official job offers on the last day of the program - October 14th. That should fall within the student timeframe of needing to respond so you would actually be able to have two offers to consider. Really just adds a 3 way split in a market that already accepts and encourages splits. Since we are taking all the risk, students have nothing to lose but another chance and a lot to gain - practice training, scholarship, laptop, etc.

Oh wow... chalk another one up on the list of things of important things I've learned from this thread. I'd been really confused because although I understood the logic behind the program, I had thought you were sort of resigning yourself to the "scraps" (not that I think there's any appreciable difference between 90% of those with and without offers). If what you say is the case, it's more like you're forcing your way into the discussion against any firm... very cagey. Here's hoping you'll have an opening in one of practices I like next fall. Thanks a bunch for clearing that up for me.

Well, happy to report that ALL of our practice groups are accepting applicants. By moving our program and interview cycle later, we can more accurately predict what openings we will have. Much better and more secure for students than the traditional 2 year cycle with OCI. We are accepting applications now and wil. Have interviews in August ....

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

How would a student who goes to school outside your metro area be able to participate in your program? Since it takes place in 3L fall semester, would they need to apply as a visiting student to one of the nearby schools?

Or would they simply apply directly for a post-graduation job without participating in the fall clerkship program?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

How would a student who goes to school outside your metro area be able to participate in your program? Since it takes place in 3L fall semester, would they need to apply as a visiting student to one of the nearby schools?

Or would they simply apply directly for a post-graduation job without participating in the fall clerkship program?

Nope! It will take place in a virtual environment. We are using video conferencing for group meetings and training sessions with mentors. Partners will have virtual office hours to meet with apprentices. We will have a fall apprentice retreat in the office that runs from Friday through Monday. During that time, apprentices will job shadow, learn about the business of our firm and, of course, have parties with our attorneys. Hopefully the NFL will even cooperate and we will have a game to go to ... With this platform you can participate no matter where you are.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

How would a student who goes to school outside your metro area be able to participate in your program? Since it takes place in 3L fall semester, would they need to apply as a visiting student to one of the nearby schools?

Or would they simply apply directly for a post-graduation job without participating in the fall clerkship program?

Nope! It will take place in a virtual environment. We are using video conferencing for group meetings and training sessions with mentors. Partners will have virtual office hours to meet with apprentices. We will have a fall apprentice retreat in the office that runs from Friday through Monday. During that time, apprentices will job shadow, learn about the business of our firm and, of course, have parties with our attorneys. Hopefully the NFL will even cooperate and we will have a game to go to ... With this platform you can participate no matter where you are.

Wow, very cool. Definitely an innovative approach.

[stratocophic]

Glad to see I was right, the curiosity was driving me nuts. Figured it had to be you though with all of the publicity you've gotten. How do you look at someone who has an offer with another firm (because of the unique nature of S2J)? I like the firm and its status in the city, but I don't think I'd be brave enough to cut another offer loose to chase a spot... Have you had to deal with that before?

I more meant summers having to fight it out than the firms, typo on my part, but glad to hear neither is really an issue. I did expect things to be pretty genteel down there.

We designed our 3L apprentice training program timing with this issue in mind. We compressed the timeline and will make official job offers on the last day of the program - October 14th. That should fall within the student timeframe of needing to respond so you would actually be able to have two offers to consider. Really just adds a 3 way split in a market that already accepts and encourages splits. Since we are taking all the risk, students have nothing to lose but another chance and a lot to gain - practice training, scholarship, laptop, etc.

Oh wow... chalk another one up on the list of things of important things I've learned from this thread. I'd been really confused because although I understood the logic behind the program, I had thought you were sort of resigning yourself to the "scraps" (not that I think there's any appreciable difference between 90% of those with and without offers). If what you say is the case, it's more like you're forcing your way into the discussion against any firm... very cagey. Here's hoping you'll have an opening in one of practices I like next fall. Thanks a bunch for clearing that up for me.

Well, happy to report that ALL of our practice groups are accepting applicants. By moving our program and interview cycle later, we can more accurately predict what openings we will have. Much better and more secure for students than the traditional 2 year cycle with OCI. We are accepting applications now and wil. Have interviews in August ....

Ah, I see. I took the fact that the program was designed to better fill needs to mean that smaller specialties would likely be recruiting less frequently. On a related note, what are your thoughts on using the program to try out an area you're interested in if you've kind of been pigeonholed before, for whatever reason? Would that preclude me from working in the first practice area, or would there be a possibility of doing some of both?

[Anonymous User]

Do you think your program is going to work?

I go to a school you used to recruit from. Really my question is, do you still value ties to Nashville or are you ditching Tennessee to try and make waves at the national level?

And what kind of feedback have you gotten from schools/students? To be honest, I haven't heard anything/anything positive thus far, so I'm curious to see how it's coming on your end.