NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Big Shrimpin]

life as the only associate in a biglaw office has to be such shit though

(Jones Day midlevel holding boombox outside partner's house)

*Goodnight Saigon blares as 1,500 associates stand arm in arm in solidarity, singing "AND WE WOULD ALL GO DOOOOOOWN TOGETHER" like fat, balding, exhausted TTT Whos before the Grinch steals Christmas*

so many great xo things ITT

[JusticeJackson]

.

[HerculesQEinstein]

Does anyone know the full scale for A&b and K&S in Atlanta?

This is relevant to my interests. My understanding is that those Atlanta firms compress the shit out of their scale with only like 5k-10k raises for each class year. I wouldnt be surprised if this is still the case. Either this ATL firms are doing poorly or just lowballing associates because there are no elite firms in Atlanta to make that market move.

To all the ppl and that crazy article talking about an exodus of people out of NY just lol. To where? Most of the jobs are in NY. Sure some lucky associates in Charlotte are getting paid major TUBMANS now, but dont you need ties to NC to get a job like that. If you are a junior associate in NY, is it easy to lateral to a secondary market? Take the bar again. If you are a mid-level, you probably want out of biglaw, if not law entirely by now. Not many firms pay the full Cravath scale plus bonus at the end of the day.

You fatalist newb, it's shockingly easy to move to a non-NYC market. You also don't need to take the bar in most states once you have 5 years of practice under your belt.

[Anonymous User]

No la croix
No seamless
No sleep
No match

[DELG]

Does anyone know the full scale for A&b and K&S in Atlanta?

This is relevant to my interests. My understanding is that those Atlanta firms compress the shit out of their scale with only like 5k-10k raises for each class year. I wouldnt be surprised if this is still the case. Either this ATL firms are doing poorly or just lowballing associates because there are no elite firms in Atlanta to make that market move.

To all the ppl and that crazy article talking about an exodus of people out of NY just lol. To where? Most of the jobs are in NY. Sure some lucky associates in Charlotte are getting paid major TUBMANS now, but dont you need ties to NC to get a job like that. If you are a junior associate in NY, is it easy to lateral to a secondary market? Take the bar again. If you are a mid-level, you probably want out of biglaw, if not law entirely by now. Not many firms pay the full Cravath scale plus bonus at the end of the day.

You fatalist newb, it's shockingly easy to move to a non-NYC market. You also don't need to take the bar in most states once you have 5 years of practice under your belt.

Except it's true most midlevels don't want to keep working at fucking firms

[Anonymous User]

Stroock matched:

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/19th-cen ... ath-scale/

[Anonymous User]

Haynes and Boone

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/prodigal ... ath-scale/

[Anonymous User]

HerculesQEinstein wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Does anyone know the full scale for A&b and K&S in Atlanta?


This is relevant to my interests. My understanding is that those Atlanta firms compress the shit out of their scale with only like 5k-10k raises for each class year. I wouldnt be surprised if this is still the case. Either this ATL firms are doing poorly or just lowballing associates because there are no elite firms in Atlanta to make that market move.

To all the ppl and that crazy article talking about an exodus of people out of NY just lol. To where? Most of the jobs are in NY. Sure some lucky associates in Charlotte are getting paid major TUBMANS now, but dont you need ties to NC to get a job like that. If you are a junior associate in NY, is it easy to lateral to a secondary market? Take the bar again. If you are a mid-level, you probably want out of biglaw, if not law entirely by now. Not many firms pay the full Cravath scale plus bonus at the end of the day.


You fatalist newb, it's shockingly easy to move to a non-NYC market. You also don't need to take the bar in most states once you have 5 years of practice under your belt.

Except it's true most midlevels don't want to keep working at fucking firms

I'm the anon above. This was kind of my point. I'm well aware that most people don't have to take the bar again after 5 years, I was talking about junior associates lateraling. I'm guessing that after 5 years in NY, most people dont want to work at another firm in a secondary market, where they will still have to bill like 2200 hours per year plus try to bring in business.

Overall point I'm trying to make is that law students need to compare total comp (bonus, plus what it takes to get such bonus) when comparing NY to secondary markets. Assuming one lasts 5 years, an associate in NY is going to make way much more money than even the best firms in Atlanta (AB and KS). Firms match to 180 (or even a secondary market with low COL at like 155k) is flame compared to NY where you can reasonably expect nice bonuses plus a NON-COMPRESSED salary scale. I'm at a V100 with a compressed scale and I can tell you that my salary is much much less than a 4th year in NY.

[Anonymous User]

Haynes and Boone

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/prodigal ... ath-scale/

I knew they were teammates, but had no idea they started a law firm!

[bwh8813]

Brendan Franzoni and Yosemite Sam Yemington win this round. The rest of us are still suckers.

Guys like lone wolf Franzoni and Yosemite Sam Yemington definitely have Google Alerts for their names. I just hope the spiders pick up this forum so they know that they're heroes now.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon above. This was kind of my point. I'm well aware that most people don't have to take the bar again after 5 years, I was talking about junior associates lateraling. I'm guessing that after 5 years in NY, most people dont want to work at another firm in a secondary market, where they will still have to bill like 2200 hours per year plus try to bring in business.

Overall point I'm trying to make is that law students need to compare total comp (bonus, plus what it takes to get such bonus) when comparing NY to secondary markets. Assuming one lasts 5 years, an associate in NY is going to make way much more money than even the best firms in Atlanta (AB and KS). Firms match to 180 (or even a secondary market with low COL at like 155k) is flame compared to NY where you can reasonably expect nice bonuses plus a NON-COMPRESSED salary scale. I'm at a V100 with a compressed scale and I can tell you that my salary is much much less than a 4th year in NY.

I don't understand why someone would go to Atlanta when Texas pays market.

[Anonymous User]

Haynes and Boone

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/prodigal ... ath-scale/

NRF is now officially the last non-regional native TX big law firm remaining. They have high revenue ($1.8 billion) but it means nothing because that's across the entire verein, which does not pool resources. Their PPP is pitiful for a firm that fancies themselves an international powerhouse a la DLA or Freshfields (~$700,000 pre-merger, probably less than that now since Norton Rose had even lower PPP). They might not recruit a single summer this year if they don't match, since SAs split firms in TX and every other big firm has matched.

[SplitMyPants]

I'm the anon above. This was kind of my point. I'm well aware that most people don't have to take the bar again after 5 years, I was talking about junior associates lateraling. I'm guessing that after 5 years in NY, most people dont want to work at another firm in a secondary market, where they will still have to bill like 2200 hours per year plus try to bring in business.

Overall point I'm trying to make is that law students need to compare total comp (bonus, plus what it takes to get such bonus) when comparing NY to secondary markets. Assuming one lasts 5 years, an associate in NY is going to make way much more money than even the best firms in Atlanta (AB and KS). Firms match to 180 (or even a secondary market with low COL at like 155k) is flame compared to NY where you can reasonably expect nice bonuses plus a NON-COMPRESSED salary scale. I'm at a V100 with a compressed scale and I can tell you that my salary is much much less than a 4th year in NY.

I don't understand why someone would go to Atlanta when Texas pays market.

I would assume it's bc of ties...

Serious question: How important are ties when lateraling as, say, a fourth or fifth year (when you're most profitable—ie, highest margins relative to other class years in terms of (realized billables*billed out rate)/(chair cost + total comp) )?

I would assume overtly feigning being in love with Houston with no ties and having visited once before whilst drooling over market comp in low COL area would not be the most ideal situation. On the other hand, isn't the lateral market (at least outside of Texas) pretty hot right, making up for the hiring freeze during the recession?

[Anonymous User]

I would assume it's bc of ties...

Serious question: How important are ties when lateraling as, say, a fourth or fifth year (when you're most profitable—ie, highest margins relative to other class years in terms of (realized billables*billed out rate)/(chair cost + total comp) )?

I would assume overtly feigning being in love with Houston with no ties and having visited once before whilst drooling over market comp in low COL area would not be the most ideal situation. On the other hand, isn't the lateral market (at least outside of Texas) pretty hot right, making up for the hiring freeze during the recession?

My impression:

The lateral market within TX is fairly hot. Whether you can lateral from outside of TX depends on the practice group probably. If you're junior/midlevel then they'll look at experience/practice and then ties. If you're an older midlevel or senior then ties matter more because it looks disingenuous to an extent. At a firm I was at previously, recruiting threw a 7th year's S&C/CSM resume in the trash. I think overall the need for ties is overblown though. Houston firms include Kirkland, Latham, Skadden, STB, and there's tons of associates in those offices who just came from the respective NY office. Dallas is a city filled with people who aren't from Dallas. Austin might be a tough nut to crack - I don't know as much about their hiring. It's more important to sell that you're into the firm/TX for the long haul than that you have ties to TX previously.

There's been a steady stream of people coming down from the normal NY firms. This is the biggest reason I think there's another NY raise coming (or a bonus increase).

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon above. This was kind of my point. I'm well aware that most people don't have to take the bar again after 5 years, I was talking about junior associates lateraling. I'm guessing that after 5 years in NY, most people dont want to work at another firm in a secondary market, where they will still have to bill like 2200 hours per year plus try to bring in business.

Overall point I'm trying to make is that law students need to compare total comp (bonus, plus what it takes to get such bonus) when comparing NY to secondary markets. Assuming one lasts 5 years, an associate in NY is going to make way much more money than even the best firms in Atlanta (AB and KS). Firms match to 180 (or even a secondary market with low COL at like 155k) is flame compared to NY where you can reasonably expect nice bonuses plus a NON-COMPRESSED salary scale. I'm at a V100 with a compressed scale and I can tell you that my salary is much much less than a 4th year in NY.

I don't understand why someone would go to Atlanta when Texas pays market.

I would assume it's bc of ties...

Serious question: How important are ties when lateraling as, say, a fourth or fifth year (when you're most profitable—ie, highest margins relative to other class years in terms of (realized billables*billed out rate)/(chair cost + total comp) )?

I would assume overtly feigning being in love with Houston with no ties and having visited once before whilst drooling over market comp in low COL area would not be the most ideal situation. On the other hand, isn't the lateral market (at least outside of Texas) pretty hot right, making up for the hiring freeze during the recession?

It's absolutely ties. As someone starting Biglaw in a major market with Atlanta ties, I would absolutely lateral back there before going to Texas. Frankly, from my limited experience visiting Texas (Austin excluded), it seems like a terrible place to live. Not trying to start a war of "Where is better to live." I'm sure there are plenty of people who love DFW/Houston, just my own personal opinion.

[Anonymous User]

It's absolutely ties. As someone starting Biglaw in a major market with Atlanta ties, I would absolutely lateral back there before going to Texas. Frankly, from my limited experience visiting Texas (Austin excluded), it seems like a terrible place to live. Not trying to start a war of "Where is better to live." I'm sure there are plenty of people who love DFW/Houston, just my own personal opinion.

It can't just be that Atlanta is "better" than Texas though. Currently, the only way it makes sense is if you would pay $100k per year to live in Atlanta over Texas. It has to be that much better.

If you haven't started yet, wait until you get used to the market salary, and then see if you change your mind.

[JenDarby]

It's absolutely ties. As someone starting Biglaw in a major market with Atlanta ties, I would absolutely lateral back there before going to Texas. Frankly, from my limited experience visiting Texas (Austin excluded), it seems like a terrible place to live. Not trying to start a war of "Where is better to live." I'm sure there are plenty of people who love DFW/Houston, just my own personal opinion.

It can't just be that Atlanta is "better" than Texas though. Currently, the only way it makes sense is if you would pay $100k per year to live in Atlanta over Texas. It has to be that much better.

If you haven't started yet, wait until you get used to the market salary, and then see if you change your mind.

Not sure why your post is anonymous, but the person directly said that it isn't just that "Atlanta is 'better'" but rather that it's specifically ties. Lots of people value family and such in a region very highly.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure why your post is anonymous, but the person directly said that it isn't just that "Atlanta is 'better'" but rather that it's specifically ties. Lots of people value family and such in a region very highly.

It's anon because I'm the same person who was discussing the TX lateral market above.

Okay, that's all well and good. But the person still has to consciously decide that family or whatever is worth $100k per year. That's all I was pointing out. You can buy a lot of plane tickets to visit whoever you want for that much money.

[JenDarby]

Not sure why your post is anonymous, but the person directly said that it isn't just that "Atlanta is 'better'" but rather that it's specifically ties. Lots of people value family and such in a region very highly.

It's anon because I'm the same person who was discussing the TX lateral market above.

Okay, that's all well and good. But the person still has to consciously decide that family or whatever is worth $100k per year. That's all I was pointing out. You can buy a lot of plane tickets to visit whoever you want for that much money.

Even then there's plenty of other reasons not to want to live in TX. Money is obviously a factor, but clearly for many people it's just one factor, and not necessarily the most important one. Its very narrow minded to "not understand" why someone would go to Atlanta just because Texas pays market.

[UnicornHunter]

yeah I mean you either spend your waking hours in a box in houston or a box in atlanta doesn't really matter what the setting is outside of that box right?

[Anonymous User]

Not sure why your post is anonymous, but the person directly said that it isn't just that "Atlanta is 'better'" but rather that it's specifically ties. Lots of people value family and such in a region very highly.

It's anon because I'm the same person who was discussing the TX lateral market above.

Okay, that's all well and good. But the person still has to consciously decide that family or whatever is worth $100k per year. That's all I was pointing out. You can buy a lot of plane tickets to visit whoever you want for that much money.

Please show your math on how you come up with a $100k per year difference.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure why your post is anonymous, but the person directly said that it isn't just that "Atlanta is 'better'" but rather that it's specifically ties. Lots of people value family and such in a region very highly.

It's anon because I'm the same person who was discussing the TX lateral market above.

Okay, that's all well and good. But the person still has to consciously decide that family or whatever is worth $100k per year. That's all I was pointing out. You can buy a lot of plane tickets to visit whoever you want for that much money.

Please show your math on how you come up with a $100k per year difference.

Multiple people two pages back said King & Spalding raises base $5-$10 per year. I don't know what their bonuses are. Compare that to actual lockstep cravath scale. If I overstated the difference, I apologize. It sounds to me like it will be significant.

Even then there's plenty of other reasons not to want to live in TX. Money is obviously a factor, but clearly for many people it's just one factor, and not necessarily the most important one. Its very narrow minded to "not understand" why someone would go to Atlanta just because Texas pays market.

Yes, people use a variety of factors to make every decision in their life, including where they will live.

[Anonymous User]

K&S ATL couldn't have been snobbier during my callback there a few years ago. The 5th and 6th years I interviewed with apparently thought I would be blinded by their sheer preftige.

Now I make more than they make; oh well

K&S DOMINATING the Gwinnett cafeteria scene

[El Pollito]

There are lots of people who would never live in TX, shockingly.

[Brentwood]

saw the law 360 article that mentioned a Kansas City firm going to $180k

it's Hughes Hubbard, who just downsized all the way to precisely one KC associate

shouldn't that guy get half of the combined salary of everyone he killed in the arena or was I misled as to how all of this works?

Found him

Brendan Franzoni DOMINATING the KC BBQ scene, giving your girlfriend the "dry rub" before CRUSHING Boulevard six-packs in Chiefs box seats with Yosemite Sam Yemington while Polsinelli bros close the shades and spend 45 minutes scrolling for a Tori Black video they haven't seen yet.

I almost never log in/comment but man this is absolute gold and you are fucking hilarious. Keep up the good fight