The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Anonymous User]

As somebody who wants ADA in a state that does not hire early, I always knew I would end up in the Vale. I keep telling myself that it's not time to panic yet because I am going through the processes at two different offices (then there are a few more that hire post-bar results), still, I am very concerned about not being employed come September. Am I shooting too narrowly? Given my hatred for crim defense work, and all of the ADA stuff on my res, I do not know what else I could even do/apply to. Any suggestions? Should I even be thinking about applying to other stuff yet?

I'm in the same position so I will bump this post in the hope of advice.

[jbagelboy]

Maybe sparty has aspergers and can't effectively communicate in an non-derogatory/awkward fashion. Time and time again you have all suggested he/she change their mannerism and approach to advising, and each time this has not produced a different result. I guess it's rare for the condition to be expressed typographically. But it's not unheard of.

[kalvano]

So, for all those with stress, trouble sleeping, etc.:

Going to counseling and getting on antidepressants and anxiolytics has made my life immeasurably better. My family is happier too. Even if it did throw away my last chance at serving in the military, it was so fucking worth it. I can't even express how much better it is to wake up not feeling hopeless, or to go to bed not nauseated with fear of the future.

Dude, absolutely the right choice. You'll find something else for sure, but in the mean time, you definitely made the right decision.

[FamilyLawEsq]

What I've found that really helps when I can't sleep because my mind just won't shut up is, before bed, sitting out the couch or somewhere that is not my bed, actively thinking about what I know is going to stress me out later. Then I get sleep, and the thought is out of my head, so I can lie in bed and (hopefully) fall asleep.

My physician told me when she can't sleep she counts backwards starting with 300 by threes...297...294...291...I rarely get as low as 100.

[FamilyLawEsq]

So I'm a 3L clerking for a 4 attorney firm right now. Been there about two months, drafting motions and memos. When I was hired I was told it has the potential to turn into a full time position when I graduate in May. If you were me when would you bring up the subject with the managing partner about coming on full time? Don't take into account bar results, I'm in WI, diploma privilege, so once I graduate I'm admitted.

Thanks.

Absolutely talk to the partner now

[Bikeflip]

So, for all those with stress, trouble sleeping, etc.:

Going to counseling and getting on antidepressants and anxiolytics has made my life immeasurably better. My family is happier too. Even if it did throw away my last chance at serving in the military, it was so fucking worth it. I can't even express how much better it is to wake up not feeling hopeless, or to go to bed not nauseated with fear of the future.

Dude, absolutely the right choice. You'll find something else for sure, but in the mean time, you definitely made the right decision.

[horriblegb]

Is anybody else feeling like being jobless as a 2nd semester 3L is making it difficult to sleep? Like all I do is lie in bed and stress out about my lack of a job. It's terrible. I have started becoming dependent on sleeping pills.

Same ... I have seen night turn to morning too many times although I'm afraid to take sleeping pills.

have either of you tried taking Melatonin? It is a natural supplement that helps you fall asleep (your body produces it naturally). My therapist recommmended it to me when I was in law school because I was also afraid of developing a dependency on sleeping pills. So I have both and only take the heavy stuff on nights that I know i won't be able to sleep. It really works for me and I do not feel a dependency on them or the sleeping pills

Just a thought, I know that stress of being a jobless 3L!

As someone with experience with Melatonin, do NOT take it.

When I was 19 I had a few weeks where I had some serious trouble falling asleep. A friend of mine recommended this wonderful natural thing called Melatonin. It was super cheap and sold at basically any store. The problem that no one told me and that for whatever reason I didn't realize is that Melatonin is a hormone. Your body naturally produces melatonin when the sun sets to get your body sleepy. When you take supplemental Melatonin (or ANY hormone) your body will compensate for the excess of the hormone within and stop producing its own. Day 1-5 were great, by da6 6 I needed 2 tablets for it to work, by the second week I was popping 4 tablets per night and quickly realized my body basically stopped producing its own melatonin hormone as a result. I caught on early and stopped taking it, went through a very rough few weeks while the body adjusted to producing its own again, and recovered. Lesson is: Don't feed your body supplemental hormones that it creates itself.

Really the hands down best way I found to get tired is to get tired throughout the day. Go to the gym, get active, etc. Also, set an early alarm and stick to waking up. This always cures jetlag for me. When you cant fall asleep till 3 am you wake up at 7 am anyway and the next day all of a sudden you're sleep is perfectly fine. Try ZQuill for a night or two if you're super desperate.

I can understand that, that is why I do not take it every night and switch off between the sleeping pills, so I do not develop a dependency on anything, and then the nights I do not need to get to sleep I do not take anything.
i am sorry that you had a bad experience with it, I guess different strokes?

I like your advice of sticking to waking up though, that sounds a lot more reasonable, just harder in the morning!

[horriblegb]

So, for all those with stress, trouble sleeping, etc.:

Going to counseling and getting on antidepressants and anxiolytics has made my life immeasurably better. My family is happier too. Even if it did throw away my last chance at serving in the military, it was so fucking worth it. I can't even express how much better it is to wake up not feeling hopeless, or to go to bed not nauseated with fear of the future.

Dude, absolutely the right choice. You'll find something else for sure, but in the mean time, you definitely made the right decision.

Agreed, and counseling was great for me too and completely turned my life around, though I was very stubborn about going initially.

I think it really helps in the vale, i think the emotional turn is worse than law school by far. They ask if a relationship can survive 1L year, it is really whether it can survive the vale (imo)

[aardvark87]

So, for all those with stress, trouble sleeping, etc.:

Going to counseling and getting on antidepressants and anxiolytics has made my life immeasurably better. My family is happier too. Even if it did throw away my last chance at serving in the military, it was so fucking worth it. I can't even express how much better it is to wake up not feeling hopeless, or to go to bed not nauseated with fear of the future.

Good to hear. I know those are tough choices.

As for the sleep/stress issue, I'd also throw out:
1) Exercise: the earlier in the day, the better.
2) Regular sleep habits: regular bed time, don't sleep in too much on the weekends, etc.
3) Disconnecting 30-60 minutes before bed: no phone/computer/etc. especially while you're in bed.
4) Get an early start and check something off of your to-do list every day. For me, this really helps with those "brain won't shut up" nights. I'm way less worried about what else I need to get done if I've had a productive day. It's tough to focus when you're stressed, but if you let the stress build it becomes an ugly cycle.

To those still in school, keep grinding but realize that you may not make a lot of progress until bar results come out. Anecdotally, I found 3L spring/bar summer to be dead zones of hiring, but there was a surge right after bar results. Sucks, I know, but hang tough.

[chrisbru]

Good to hear. I know those are tough choices.

As for the sleep/stress issue, I'd also throw out:
1) Exercise: the earlier in the day, the better.
2) Regular sleep habits: regular bed time, don't sleep in too much on the weekends, etc.
3) Disconnecting 30-60 minutes before bed: no phone/computer/etc. especially while you're in bed.
4) Get an early start and check something off of your to-do list every day. For me, this really helps with those "brain won't shut up" nights. I'm way less worried about what else I need to get done if I've had a productive day. It's tough to focus when you're stressed, but if you let the stress build it becomes an ugly cycle.

To those still in school, keep grinding but realize that you may not make a lot of progress until bar results come out. Anecdotally, I found 3L spring/bar summer to be dead zones of hiring, but there was a surge right after bar results. Sucks, I know, but hang tough.

Second these. I've been working out first thing in the morning this semester, and have been sleeping so much better.

[Anonymous User]

So again, what was that PW to the Indiana symplicity

[Bikeflip]

I know we pimp the BYU board a lot and it's great but I found something that I don't think has been mentioned yet. Most of the schools submit a pdf once a month but Indiana Law allows you to login to their symplicity and check listings daily ,which is really cool on their part. Any other schools do this?

Link: https://law-indiana-csm.symplicity.com/students/‎

Login: guest@indiana.edu

Password: password

This is asking for a PIN when I try to sign in.

[Bikeflip]

So remember ATC conversation we had a few weeks back? I actually applied, and a friend of a friend who majored in ATC did as well. In fact my friend knows a bunch of people who applied, and those people all have aviation degrees. Guess who the FAA sent rejection letters to? Everyone but the lawyer.

[rad lulz]

So remember ATC conversation we had a few weeks back? I actually applied, and a friend of a friend who majored in ATC did as well. In fact my friend knows a bunch of people who applied, and those people all have aviation degrees. Guess who the FAA sent rejection letters to? Everyone but the lawyer.

Hahahah that's awesome man

I think a blog poast ab the versatility of a law degree is In Order

[chrisbru]

So remember ATC conversation we had a few weeks back? I actually applied, and a friend of a friend who majored in ATC did as well. In fact my friend knows a bunch of people who applied, and those people all have aviation degrees. Guess who the FAA sent rejection letters to? Everyone but the lawyer.

Niiiiiice!

[Bikeflip]

Doesn't mean shit. All it could mean is that those bros sent their stuff early, so they got their rejections earlier than I will get my rejection letter. Just find it a bit odd. One of these bros has his heart set on ATC, and he got a letter. I don't feel too bad for him because he just got a jerb with a small cargo airline and gets loads of time off for decent money. Plus, he's not flying for these assholes who can't find pilots b/c their wages suck so badly.

Any event, sorry for getting everyone's hopes up for me. I'm still in limbo. I feel like an asshole now, because my point was more along the lines of, "See, HR people screw people over everywhere, not just law." I wasn't trying to dance on someone elses pain, and I may have inadvertently done the latter.

ETA: Just got my rejection. So at least no lawyers will be telling your pilots how to land.

[a male human]

Just finished the Feb CA bar and have an interview at a firm next Tuesday. It's not technically a law firm (d/b/a Inc. for many years) or a permanent job (contract/project basis for now) yet and I don't think any of them are lawyers, but they do what I want to do. The CEO really liked my writing samples, so I think my foot's lodged firmly in the door. He's an elderly person who's looking for fresh talent, I guess. I forgot how to talk during the last couple months, but I hope I can impress him and his team.

[Bikeflip]

Just finished the Feb CA bar and have an interview at a firm next Tuesday. It's not technically a law firm (d/b/a Inc. for many years) or a permanent job (contract/project basis for now) yet and I don't think any of them are lawyers, but they do what I want to do. The CEO really liked my writing samples, so I think my foot's lodged firmly in the door. He's an elderly person who's looking for fresh talent, I guess. I forgot how to talk during the last couple months, but I hope I can impress him and his team.

Double good luck, bar and jerb.

[Anonymous User]

Preface: Normal working hours where I live are like 8-4:30, slightly earlier on Fridays.

Wednesday afternoon: Have interview with doc review agency in the city that goes very well
Thursday: Obsessively check e-mail all day long (nothing)
Friday morning: Go up to city to run various errands. Obsessively check e-mail all morning (nothing)
1:45 PM: Phone battery is below 10% so I turn it off.
2:35 PM: Recruiter e-mails me a doc review project offer with a start date of Monday.
2:40 PM: I turn on my phone for a couple of minutes to check for e-mails. My phone is stupid and doesn't refresh properly so this e-mail does not appear. I even went directly into my mailbox to check manually. Nothing. I turn my phone back off. At this point, I am in the city near the agency's office.
3:15 PM: I board an express bus to the suburbs.
3:40 PM: While stuck in terrible traffic, I turn on my phone one last time. Phone is at 5% battery at this point. The e-mail from 2:35 FINALLY appears and I respond to it immediately, accepting the project while explaining that I'm about to go off the grid for another half hour due to dying phone and being stuck on a bus in traffic. Recruiter responds immediately basically saying "It's great you can do this project. I'll e-mail you conflicts checks that you can send back to me when you get home." I then turn off my phone.
3:45 PM: Recruiter e-mails me the conflicts check.
4:15 PM: Strugglebus finally gets to the park & ride, where I immediately plug in my phone to a car charger. I get her 3:45 e-mail about the conflicts. I reply that I have no conflicts on the list.
Since then: Total radio silence. Recruiter is presumably gone for the weekend. A 5:15 PM call to her office phone went to voicemail.

So now I basically may or may not have a doc review job starting on Monday. I know what firm it's with and what building this firm is in, but know little else. I do not know my apparent start time or a contact at that firm. I'm losing my mind over here. Do I basically just show up at the agency at 7:30 on Monday and ask where to go? My commute is kind of long. I hope I don't wind up going all the way to the city only to find out that "oops you didn't send your paperwork in time so you'll have to wait for the next project." I have no idea if the recruiter can check e-mail remotely or anything like that.

TL;DR Has anyone in here done contract doc review and been in a similar situation?

[Bikeflip]

Email and show up on Monday. What else can you do?

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone apply to the Citi Full Time Compliance Associate Program?

I did. I haven't heard back. The recruiter just asked me if I also applied online

[seahawks2014]

Did anyone apply to the Citi Full Time Compliance Associate Program?

I did. I haven't heard back. The recruiter just asked me if I also applied online

I got that email about a month ago and just found it in my spam a week ago. The deadline to send in the app was on February 14th and I am starting to lose the little hope I had haha.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone apply to the Citi Full Time Compliance Associate Program?

I did. I haven't heard back. The recruiter just asked me if I also applied online

I got that email about a month ago and just found it in my spam a week ago. The deadline to send in the app was on February 14th and I am starting to lose the little hope I had haha.

Did you apply via the website as well? I think there is still hope. On the 11th they said they would start to review resumes in " the next couple of weeks". I reached out to an alumna of my law school that is there and they said that they checked that the recruiter had my resume. I think the alumna would have said something else if decisions had been made.

[Anonymous User]

I applied on the website and through symplicity as well. Fingers crossed for the millionth time in the past couple years that something happens with this one.

[Anonymous User]

I applied on the website and through symplicity as well. Fingers crossed for the millionth time in the past couple years that something happens with this one.

me too!