The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[bjsesq]

Oh, okay. How could I "express incredulity" if I don't even know if he applied there. Nothing in his statement said if he did. But you, being the hater that you are, was quick an attempting to analyze what I was saying. Please fly away. I simply recommended the CDC and DHH and ask the guy if there is a reason why he couldn't get a job there? Cause if I had a Masters there, I'd be applying to those agencies, idk, every day. But once again, haters like you, want to twist my words.

Seriously, mods, stop sitting on your hands and ban this fucking asshole. I am getting sick of his condescension and he has done precious little to help anyone in this thread. He continues to flex on people in a thread that is meant to specifically prohibit such asshattery.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Sparty, we don't hate, we're just reading what you post. If everyone reads your posts in a the same way, and it's not the way you intend, you may want to think about how effectively you're expressing yourself. Take some time to do so.

And no more about sparty. Back to job search planning, strategizing, and venting.

[Anonymous User]

Is anybody else feeling like being jobless as a 2nd semester 3L is making it difficult to sleep? Like all I do is lie in bed and stress out about my lack of a job. It's terrible. I have started becoming dependent on sleeping pills.

[Anonymous User]

Is anybody else feeling like being jobless as a 2nd semester 3L is making it difficult to sleep? Like all I do is lie in bed and stress out about my lack of a job. It's terrible. I have started becoming dependent on sleeping pills.

Look into the counseling center at your school and maybe see a therapist. From my experience (current jobless 3L) it's better to be well-adjusted and unemployed than maladjusted and unemployed.

[Anonymous User]

Is anybody else feeling like being jobless as a 2nd semester 3L is making it difficult to sleep? Like all I do is lie in bed and stress out about my lack of a job. It's terrible. I have started becoming dependent on sleeping pills.

Same ... I have seen night turn to morning too many times although I'm afraid to take sleeping pills.

[patogordo]

lack of sleep can really screw you up and cause a lot of other health problems. if you don't want to use sleeping pills i recommend looking into meditation techniques for falling asleep (basically more advanced versions of counting sheep). it sounds dumb but it can really help trick your brain into falling asleep when your thoughts are on overdrive.

[Anonymous User]

As somebody who wants ADA in a state that does not hire early, I always knew I would end up in the Vale. I keep telling myself that it's not time to panic yet because I am going through the processes at two different offices (then there are a few more that hire post-bar results), still, I am very concerned about not being employed come September. Am I shooting too narrowly? Given my hatred for crim defense work, and all of the ADA stuff on my res, I do not know what else I could even do/apply to. Any suggestions? Should I even be thinking about applying to other stuff yet?

[horriblegb]

Is anybody else feeling like being jobless as a 2nd semester 3L is making it difficult to sleep? Like all I do is lie in bed and stress out about my lack of a job. It's terrible. I have started becoming dependent on sleeping pills.

Same ... I have seen night turn to morning too many times although I'm afraid to take sleeping pills.

have either of you tried taking Melatonin? It is a natural supplement that helps you fall asleep (your body produces it naturally). My therapist recommmended it to me when I was in law school because I was also afraid of developing a dependency on sleeping pills. So I have both and only take the heavy stuff on nights that I know i won't be able to sleep. It really works for me and I do not feel a dependency on them or the sleeping pills

Just a thought, I know that stress of being a jobless 3L!

[snowpeach06]

What I've found that really helps when I can't sleep because my mind just won't shut up is, before bed, sitting out the couch or somewhere that is not my bed, actively thinking about what I know is going to stress me out later. Then I get sleep, and the thought is out of my head, so I can lie in bed and (hopefully) fall asleep.

[Bikeflip]

In addition to snowpeach, write, specifically, the shit that's stressing you out each night. Don't be bashful. Get it all down on paper, and use that stuff to make a to-do list. One thing I've learned is that wanting to get a jerb is a bunch of smaller stress points just building up. Do what you can to figure out which things are the real stressors.

[Anonymous User]

Hey what was that Indiana link that we were using, I tried today and I couldn't get in...did someone change the pw

[Anonymous User]

So I'm a 3L clerking for a 4 attorney firm right now. Been there about two months, drafting motions and memos. When I was hired I was told it has the potential to turn into a full time position when I graduate in May. If you were me when would you bring up the subject with the managing partner about coming on full time? Don't take into account bar results, I'm in WI, diploma privilege, so once I graduate I'm admitted.

Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

So I'm a 3L clerking for a 4 attorney firm right now. Been there about two months, drafting motions and memos. When I was hired I was told it has the potential to turn into a full time position when I graduate in May. If you were me when would you bring up the subject with the managing partner about coming on full time?

Thanks.

Edit, read this wrong sorry. I would do it around the time you graduate and ask to work there full time while awaiting bar results. Then perhaps a real attorney position right after you pass the bar.

[spleenworship]

So I'm a 3L clerking for a 4 attorney firm right now. Been there about two months, drafting motions and memos. When I was hired I was told it has the potential to turn into a full time position when I graduate in May. If you were me when would you bring up the subject with the managing partner about coming on full time?

Thanks.

I'd ask a couple weeks prior to the bar deadline. If that has already passed, I'd ask after you've been there 3 months.

[Anonymous User]

So I'm a 3L clerking for a 4 attorney firm right now. Been there about two months, drafting motions and memos. When I was hired I was told it has the potential to turn into a full time position when I graduate in May. If you were me when would you bring up the subject with the managing partner about coming on full time?

Thanks.

I'd ask a couple weeks prior to the bar deadline. If that has already passed, I'd ask after you've been there 3 months.

OP here: I'll give a bit of myself away here, I'm in Wisconsin and we have diploma privilege, so once I've graduated I'm automatically admitted. Does this change anyone's recommendation?

[spleenworship]

So, for all those with stress, trouble sleeping, etc.:

Going to counseling and getting on antidepressants and anxiolytics has made my life immeasurably better. My family is happier too. Even if it did throw away my last chance at serving in the military, it was so fucking worth it. I can't even express how much better it is to wake up not feeling hopeless, or to go to bed not nauseated with fear of the future.

[spleenworship]

So I'm a 3L clerking for a 4 attorney firm right now. Been there about two months, drafting motions and memos. When I was hired I was told it has the potential to turn into a full time position when I graduate in May. If you were me when would you bring up the subject with the managing partner about coming on full time?

Thanks.

I'd ask a couple weeks prior to the bar deadline. If that has already passed, I'd ask after you've been there 3 months.

OP here: I'll give a bit of myself away here, I'm in Wisconsin and we have diploma privilege, so once I've graduated I'm automatically admitted. Does this change anyone's recommendation?

Wait until around the July 4 holiday so they have a feel for you a a full time employee?

[chrisbru]

So I'm a 3L clerking for a 4 attorney firm right now. Been there about two months, drafting motions and memos. When I was hired I was told it has the potential to turn into a full time position when I graduate in May. If you were me when would you bring up the subject with the managing partner about coming on full time?

Thanks.

I'd ask a couple weeks prior to the bar deadline. If that has already passed, I'd ask after you've been there 3 months.

OP here: I'll give a bit of myself away here, I'm in Wisconsin and we have diploma privilege, so once I've graduated I'm automatically admitted. Does this change anyone's recommendation?

Wait until around the July 4 holiday so they have a feel for you a a full time employee?

Really? I was going to go a complete opposite direction with this and say...

I think you should bring it up soon. Talk to a partner that you are close with and say that you really enjoy working for the firm, and would like to work for them full-time after graduation. Remind them that they are the first choice for you, but that if they can't keep you on that you need to be searching seriously for something different after graduation.

[kalvano]

Really? I was going to go a complete opposite direction with this and say...

I think you should bring it up soon. Talk to a partner that you are close with and say that you really enjoy working for the firm, and would like to work for them full-time after graduation. Remind them that they are the first choice for you, but that if they can't keep you on that you need to be searching seriously for something different after graduation.

Agreed, the sooner the better. If they say no, then you can start exploring other options.

[spleenworship]

Yeah. Actually that's not bad advice. Maybe a compromise: ask after you've been there 90 days (assuming from what you said that you've been there 60 days). That way you have some time in so they can evaluate you while at the same time still giving you a couple months during prime small firm hiring time to find a new job if they turn you down?

I think my first instinct and what bru and k are saying is right though. This isn't 2L and you need to know relatively soon.

[A. Nony Mouse]

So, for all those with stress, trouble sleeping, etc.:

Going to counseling and getting on antidepressants and anxiolytics has made my life immeasurably better. My family is happier too. Even if it did throw away my last chance at serving in the military, it was so fucking worth it. I can't even express how much better it is to wake up not feeling hopeless, or to go to bed not nauseated with fear of the future.

Spleen, I'm so glad to hear this.

[patogordo]

Yeah. Actually that's not bad advice. Maybe a compromise: ask after you've been there 90 days (assuming from what you said that you've been there 60 days). That way you have some time in so they can evaluate you while at the same time still giving you a couple months during prime small firm hiring time to find a new job if they turn you down?

I think my first instinct and what bru and k are saying is right though. This isn't 2L and you need to know relatively soon.

yea i don't think you need to wait too long to broach the subject. you'd be surprised, a lot of partners (especially at small firms that hire sporadically) just have no clue what the legal job market is like. they might assume that you have a ton of options. letting them know that you're still interested in a permanent position might be a good thing. i worked at a small law firm one summer where the topic of a full-time offer didn't come up until the last day of the summer because we were both thinking the other party might not be interested, and they hired so irregularly that they didn't really know what the custom was.

[BarbellDreams]

Is anybody else feeling like being jobless as a 2nd semester 3L is making it difficult to sleep? Like all I do is lie in bed and stress out about my lack of a job. It's terrible. I have started becoming dependent on sleeping pills.

Same ... I have seen night turn to morning too many times although I'm afraid to take sleeping pills.

have either of you tried taking Melatonin? It is a natural supplement that helps you fall asleep (your body produces it naturally). My therapist recommmended it to me when I was in law school because I was also afraid of developing a dependency on sleeping pills. So I have both and only take the heavy stuff on nights that I know i won't be able to sleep. It really works for me and I do not feel a dependency on them or the sleeping pills

Just a thought, I know that stress of being a jobless 3L!

As someone with experience with Melatonin, do NOT take it.

When I was 19 I had a few weeks where I had some serious trouble falling asleep. A friend of mine recommended this wonderful natural thing called Melatonin. It was super cheap and sold at basically any store. The problem that no one told me and that for whatever reason I didn't realize is that Melatonin is a hormone. Your body naturally produces melatonin when the sun sets to get your body sleepy. When you take supplemental Melatonin (or ANY hormone) your body will compensate for the excess of the hormone within and stop producing its own. Day 1-5 were great, by da6 6 I needed 2 tablets for it to work, by the second week I was popping 4 tablets per night and quickly realized my body basically stopped producing its own melatonin hormone as a result. I caught on early and stopped taking it, went through a very rough few weeks while the body adjusted to producing its own again, and recovered. Lesson is: Don't feed your body supplemental hormones that it creates itself.

Really the hands down best way I found to get tired is to get tired throughout the day. Go to the gym, get active, etc. Also, set an early alarm and stick to waking up. This always cures jetlag for me. When you cant fall asleep till 3 am you wake up at 7 am anyway and the next day all of a sudden you're sleep is perfectly fine. Try ZQuill for a night or two if you're super desperate.

[HanShotFirst]

If you take too much Melatonin it actually keeps you up all night. I've had bad experiences with it, I wouldn't recommend it

[BlueLotus]

Another good posting for PA-barred Valers who are PI-inclined:
Staff Attorney – Telephone Advice Unit

MidPenn Legal Services is seeking a staff attorney to fill a vacancy in its Telephone Advice Unit. The attorney in this position will provide legal advice and information to income eligible individuals in a variety of substantive areas related to housing and consumer law. The attorney in this position will NOT provide any extended service representation in Court or before Administrative Agencies.

We are looking for a highly motivated individual who is passionate and strongly committed to helping the disadvantaged in the community. Candidates must be licensed to practice law in Pennsylvania or ability to qualify for a limited admission under Rule 311 of PA. Bar Admission Rules and sit for the next Pennsylvania Bar Exam or be admitted under Rule 204. One to four years of experience preferred. Bilingual ability (English/ Spanish) is preferred.

Interested applicants should send resume, references and writing sample to: Rhodia Thomas, Executive Director, MidPenn Legal Services, 213-A North Front Street, Harrisburg, PA 17101; or by email to rthomas@midpenn.org

MidPenn is an EEO Employer. Excellent fringe benefits (health, dental, etc.), paid holidays, and generous leave.