NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I can't say I'm surprised--his views of how law firms should operate are polar opposite to conventional views.

Could you elaborate? Jones Day seems like a prototypical mega law firm, so I'm curious how its managing partner could be considered a maverick.

They're a general partnership, black box compensation, fiscally conservative, huge emphasis on expanding internationally--Brogan hinted at even more expansion. Seems to me to go against the grain of other large firms, at least the New York-based ones.

Based on my limited interactions with him I think the poster that said raises would come in the regularly scheduled comp memos seems about right.

[soj]

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[Anonymous User]

Since it looks like Charlotte and Atlanta have given raises, any chance Nashville/Birmingham do? I'd hate to have more of a reason to regret my decision to go to one of these markets.

[Anonymous User]

I can't say I'm surprised--his views of how law firms should operate are polar opposite to conventional views.

Could you elaborate? Jones Day seems like a prototypical mega law firm, so I'm curious how its managing partner could be considered a maverick.

They're a general partnership, black box compensation, fiscally conservative, huge emphasis on expanding internationally--Brogan hinted at even more expansion. Seems to me to go against the grain of other large firms, at least the New York-based ones.

Based on my limited interactions with him I think the poster that said raises would come in the regularly scheduled comp memos seems about right.

Interesting. I think fiscal conservatism would be hard to square with aggressive international expansion, but I guess that's where the unconventional style comes in.

I hope for your sake that you get your raise soon. Does waiting till the regularly scheduled comp memo mean you would have to wait till the end of the year?

Comp memos will come out end of June. Our fiscal year is July to July.

[jkpolk]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

[WinSome]

Since it looks like Charlotte and Atlanta have given raises, any chance Nashville/Birmingham do? I'd hate to have more of a reason to regret my decision to go to one of these markets.

Do any the firms that have raised even offices in those places? I'd imagine salaries in those markets don't have the incentive to move, and if they do, it will take some time. Law firms in those markets aren't really competing against the firms that have raised.

[blahblewblah]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

This seems to assume that non-NY markets are not as profitable as NY markets. To the extent a TX office is just as profitable as a NY office, it is unclear to me why NY should pay more. I think the ultimate "can't keep up" moment will be between the ultra elite firms and the next tier of firms. Maybe I am wrong though.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

TX will match anything, especially the TX offices of NY/CA firms. NY associates get paid in culture, or so I'm told.

[Anonymous User]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

This seems to assume that non-NY markets are not as profitable as NY markets. To the extent a TX office is just as profitable as a NY office, it is unclear to me why NY should pay more. I think the ultimate "can't keep up" moment will be between the ultra elite firms and the next tier of firms. Maybe I am wrong though.

Someone earlier in the thread said that Cadwalader's most profitable office is Charlotte because of the low overhead and capital markets work.

[Actus Reus]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

This seems to assume that non-NY markets are not as profitable as NY markets. To the extent a TX office is just as profitable as a NY office, it is unclear to me why NY should pay more. I think the ultimate "can't keep up" moment will be between the ultra elite firms and the next tier of firms. Maybe I am wrong though.

Someone earlier in the thread said that Cadwalader's most profitable office is Charlotte because of the low overhead and capital markets work.

Legal work can be done anywhere. Cravath could relocate to Des Moines and accomplish the same thing but the talent might not follow. So firms that can maximize profit in smaller offices take advantage of that whenever they can

[Anonymous User]

I am not the anon who said Brogan would tell summers. But an open forum like that would be the last place brogan would say anything about pay. I stand by my original comment that the raises will come via regularly scheduled comp memos at the end of June. You heard it here first.

Yeah, that was definitely wishful thinking on my part. And you're right about how Brogan--and the Firm generally--seem to operate. My rationale for thinking that something would slip on Friday is that the folks who are going to care most about going to $180K are current summers and people applying to JD during OCI. I.e, folks who haven't accepted offers yet (and will soon be weighing them) and have student loans to pay off.

Moreover, JD has shown it's committed to having a strong recruiting effort and developing its young lawyers. The proof was in the pudding when it didn't "Latham" incoming associates during the recession. So I think you're right in the sense that the Firm will probably have to up salaries before OCI. If it waits till after, or doesn't move at all, it risks seriously damaging its recruiting effort in the Fall.

[jkpolk]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

This seems to assume that non-NY markets are not as profitable as NY markets. To the extent a TX office is just as profitable as a NY office, it is unclear to me why NY should pay more. I think the ultimate "can't keep up" moment will be between the ultra elite firms and the next tier of firms. Maybe I am wrong though.

Someone earlier in the thread said that Cadwalader's most profitable office is Charlotte because of the low overhead and capital markets work.

Legal work can be done anywhere. Cravath could relocate to Des Moines and accomplish the same thing but the talent might not follow. So firms that can maximize profit in smaller offices take advantage of that whenever they can

That's not quite true - the SDNY is not picking up and moving to Iowa. Neither are the stock exchanges. Bar requirements are not disappearing. There are real, tangible reasons Cravath needs to be in NYC. Just because Cadwalader gets crushed in NYC but does pretty well in Charlotte doesn't change the general fact that large corporate transactions are how firms make money and those transactions flow through NYC (of which Houston only has a small piece and are definitely NOT moving to des moines) . I mean profit in a revenue - cost way not in a return on invested capital way. If someone is trying to tell me Cadwalader (CHO) is more profitable than GDC (NY) because of low overhead, lol, just lol.

[Single-Malt-Liquor]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

This seems to assume that non-NY markets are not as profitable as NY markets. To the extent a TX office is just as profitable as a NY office, it is unclear to me why NY should pay more. I think the ultimate "can't keep up" moment will be between the ultra elite firms and the next tier of firms. Maybe I am wrong though.

Someone earlier in the thread said that Cadwalader's most profitable office is Charlotte because of the low overhead and capital markets work.

Legal work can be done anywhere. Cravath could relocate to Des Moines and accomplish the same thing but the talent might not follow. So firms that can maximize profit in smaller offices take advantage of that whenever they can

Des Moines to 230K plus free Hawkeyes tickets!

[Anonymous User]

Another Monday another Noraise.

[Anonymous User]

Another Monday another Noraise.

SAME HERE FRIEND

[LawyerEsq]

Associate Pay Hikes Could Spur NYC Exodus

http://www.law360.com/newyork/articles/ ... gn=newyork

With biglaw offices from Kansas City to Charlotte to Denver now matching 180, who thinks Cravath or one of its ilk raises bonuses big time this year in an attempt to separate from the pack and differentiate the elite firms? It is hard to imagine all these smaller markets matching now would continue to follow along. Wishful thinking, or is it already time for us to start dreaming bigger dreams?

[First Offense]

Associate Pay Hikes Could Spur NYC Exodus

http://www.law360.com/newyork/articles/ ... gn=newyork

With biglaw offices from Kansas City to Charlotte to Denver now matching 180, who thinks Cravath or one of its ilk raises bonuses big time this year in an attempt to separate from the pack and differentiate the elite firms? It is hard to imagine all these smaller markets matching now would continue to follow along. Wishful thinking, or is it already time for us to start dreaming bigger dreams?

There are like five associate positions at those firms.

The threat to NYC is not Charlotte or Denver. Houston, DC, Chicago can be a *slight* drain on talent, but NYC will be fine. It has as many Biglaw positions as the rest of the markets combined as well as plenty of "preftige".

[DELG]

There is nothing as prestigious as being rich AF in Denver.

[Big Shrimpin]

Saw that headline this morning and lol'd

[Actus Reus]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

This seems to assume that non-NY markets are not as profitable as NY markets. To the extent a TX office is just as profitable as a NY office, it is unclear to me why NY should pay more. I think the ultimate "can't keep up" moment will be between the ultra elite firms and the next tier of firms. Maybe I am wrong though.

Someone earlier in the thread said that Cadwalader's most profitable office is Charlotte because of the low overhead and capital markets work.

Legal work can be done anywhere. Cravath could relocate to Des Moines and accomplish the same thing but the talent might not follow. So firms that can maximize profit in smaller offices take advantage of that whenever they can

That's not quite true - the SDNY is not picking up and moving to Iowa. Neither are the stock exchanges. Bar requirements are not disappearing. There are real, tangible reasons Cravath needs to be in NYC. Just because Cadwalader gets crushed in NYC but does pretty well in Charlotte doesn't change the general fact that large corporate transactions are how firms make money and those transactions flow through NYC (of which Houston only has a small piece and are definitely NOT moving to des moines) . I mean profit in a revenue - cost way not in a return on invested capital way. If someone is trying to tell me Cadwalader (CHO) is more profitable than GDC (NY) because of low overhead, lol, just lol.

Companies don't hire Cravath because it's located in New York. Monsanto doesn't only hire St. Louis firms. McDonalds doesn't hire only Chicago firms. Cravath M&A attorneys could work in any city in this country and do the same exact job they do now. And if you think it's because client contact and distance, just lol at all the unused conference rooms in my firm. The attorneys all go to the clients now.

[Anonymous User]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

Completely agree. Cravath or one of the other usual suspects will bump either bonuses or base. The factors that likely drove the raise are even more pronounced now.

[First Offense]

The more I read about this the more I think NY gets another raise next year. Assuming Cravath wasn't just drunk and there are actually market justifications for the move, this bump hasnt diminished the market justifications. If anything the raises made the market forces more poignant because exits/entries into secondary markets are MORE attractive now. Until Atlanta/Houston/etc. can't keep up, the raises are too small.

This seems to assume that non-NY markets are not as profitable as NY markets. To the extent a TX office is just as profitable as a NY office, it is unclear to me why NY should pay more. I think the ultimate "can't keep up" moment will be between the ultra elite firms and the next tier of firms. Maybe I am wrong though.

Someone earlier in the thread said that Cadwalader's most profitable office is Charlotte because of the low overhead and capital markets work.

Legal work can be done anywhere. Cravath could relocate to Des Moines and accomplish the same thing but the talent might not follow. So firms that can maximize profit in smaller offices take advantage of that whenever they can

That's not quite true - the SDNY is not picking up and moving to Iowa. Neither are the stock exchanges. Bar requirements are not disappearing. There are real, tangible reasons Cravath needs to be in NYC. Just because Cadwalader gets crushed in NYC but does pretty well in Charlotte doesn't change the general fact that large corporate transactions are how firms make money and those transactions flow through NYC (of which Houston only has a small piece and are definitely NOT moving to des moines) . I mean profit in a revenue - cost way not in a return on invested capital way. If someone is trying to tell me Cadwalader (CHO) is more profitable than GDC (NY) because of low overhead, lol, just lol.

Companies don't hire Cravath because it's located in New York. Monsanto doesn't only hire St. Louis firms. McDonalds doesn't hire only Chicago firms. Cravath M&A attorneys could work in any city in this country and do the same exact job they do now. And if you think it's because client contact and distance, just lol at all the unused conference rooms in my firm. The attorneys all go to the clients now.

And it doesn't have to be Des Moines. There's no reason Cravath doesn't move to Hoboken or the Bronx other than preftige. Shit - in DC those firms could probably save a shitload of money just by moving a mile to two miles to Rosslyn. Covington just got that shiny new building in the middle of DC - why not go a mile away and save probably 10-20% on overhead?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know the full scale for A&b and K&S in Atlanta?

[SplitMyPants]

Wow---alsttton not raising the patent bar scale despite Fish's Friday announcement...

[Anonymous User]

Wow---alsttton not raising the patent bar scale despite Fish's Friday announcement...

Major slap in the face.