The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[Pretzel_Logic]

Just got essentially my last rejection from any place I had interviewed with, and now have nothing and my fellowship is approaching its finale. I feel like shit every day, and a complete failure as a lawyer and a human being. The last rejection I got was to primarily med mal in upstate, where I was prolly the only person from a top 7 school interviewing, and that still wasn't good enough. Waking up and getting myself to work is difficult, and then making it through the day just seems harder and harder as I approach the deadline and prolly will be given even less work than I barely get already. I haven't even heard back from the two staffing agencies I emailed, and I have no clue how I'm going to pay my rent and therapy/medication along w/ all the costs associated w/ taking the CA bar. I feel like I'm approaching a cliff, and wondering whether or not I should jump once I reach the edge.

Dude, I know the feeling of hopelessness, and I wonder why I went to lawl skool if I was going to end up here. PM some of us. We're gonna help you through it. Swear to god, if you bros in the Vale weren't here to vent to, I'd lose my fucking mind. My non law school people still think I'll be okay, even though it's been 9 months since graduation.

ditto this. we got your back.

[Anonymous User]

Lurking on the Vale for a while, first post because something terrible has happened. I was caught shoplifting yesterday. I know, it is incredibly stupid to do and I am insanely sorry. I have been depressed since graduating from law school and this was definitely a wake up call that I need to get some help and pull my life back together. It will be a summary retail theft. The store will said they will file a civil charge where I will be ordered to pay a fine, and also a criminal charge where I will be fingerprinted, then brought before a magistrate and likely ordered to do community service. Is there any possible way I could end up doing jail time for this? The stuff was less than $150 and this is my first offense of any kind, hence being a summary charge. Also, more pointed to this thread, will this ruin my job searching chances? I assume this will show up on a background check from now on, so when should I tell an employer? Once they've offered me a job and they tell me they'll be performing a check? Any advice or information on this would be great, as I am panicking that I may have just taken my job searching prospects from small to none over being incredibly stupid.

[bjsesq]

Lurking on the Vale for a while, first post because something terrible has happened. I was caught shoplifting yesterday. I know, it is incredibly stupid to do and I am insanely sorry. I have been depressed since graduating from law school and this was definitely a wake up call that I need to get some help and pull my life back together. It will be a summary retail theft. The store will said they will file a civil charge where I will be ordered to pay a fine, and also a criminal charge where I will be fingerprinted, then brought before a magistrate and likely ordered to do community service. Is there any possible way I could end up doing jail time for this? The stuff was less than $150 and this is my first offense of any kind, hence being a summary charge. Also, more pointed to this thread, will this ruin my job searching chances? I assume this will show up on a background check from now on, so when should I tell an employer? Once they've offered me a job and they tell me they'll be performing a check? Any advice or information on this would be great, as I am panicking that I may have just taken my job searching prospects from small to none over being incredibly stupid.

You won't do time. It may hurt your job hunt, depending on how in depth potential employers conduct due diligence into your background. Get a lawyer. Now.

[Anonymous User]

Lurking on the Vale for a while, first post because something terrible has happened. I was caught shoplifting yesterday. I know, it is incredibly stupid to do and I am insanely sorry. I have been depressed since graduating from law school and this was definitely a wake up call that I need to get some help and pull my life back together. It will be a summary retail theft. The store will said they will file a civil charge where I will be ordered to pay a fine, and also a criminal charge where I will be fingerprinted, then brought before a magistrate and likely ordered to do community service. Is there any possible way I could end up doing jail time for this? The stuff was less than $150 and this is my first offense of any kind, hence being a summary charge. Also, more pointed to this thread, will this ruin my job searching chances? I assume this will show up on a background check from now on, so when should I tell an employer? Once they've offered me a job and they tell me they'll be performing a check? Any advice or information on this would be great, as I am panicking that I may have just taken my job searching prospects from small to none over being incredibly stupid.

You won't do time. It may hurt your job hunt, depending on how in depth potential employers conduct due diligence into your background. Get a lawyer. Now.

Do I really need a lawyer for this? I just plan to pay the fine, go before the magistrate and apologize, then do my community service. I can't really afford to hire someone, and I am already licensed.

[patogordo]

you should probably get a lawyer. or at least consult with one. you might be able to get the complaint withdrawn at a clerk's hearing, or get the charge dismissed, or pre-trial probation, or a variety of creative options that keep it from hurting you as much in the job search.

[TJISMYHERO]

Do I really need a lawyer for this? I just plan to pay the fine, go before the magistrate and apologize, then do my community service. I can't really afford to hire someone, and I am already licensed.

Yes, you definitely need to get a lawyer. It might be possible to do some sort of probation in return for dismissal. If it is dismissed, then you might be able to get it expunged in a couple of years, which is basically like it never happened.

[bjsesq]

Do I really need a lawyer for this? I just plan to pay the fine, go before the magistrate and apologize, then do my community service. I can't really afford to hire someone, and I am already licensed.

Yes, you definitely need to get a lawyer. It might be possible to do some sort of probation in return for dismissal. If it is dismissed, then you might be able to get it expunged in a couple of years, which is basically like it never happened.

DAT SUSPENDED IMP

[Anonymous User]

you should probably get a lawyer. or at least consult with one. you might be able to get the complaint withdrawn at a clerk's hearing, or get the charge dismissed, or pre-trial probation, or a variety of creative options that keep it from hurting you as much in the job search.

They're a large retail department store chain, so it seems like their process is pretty set? Also, do I need to report this to my state bar?

[Anonymous User]

as somebody with experience in criminal law, I can tell you that this situation (low-level theft by somebody with tough stuff going on and no record) is standard pre-trial probation. pre trial probation basically means that it's a dismissal as long as you don't get charged with any new crimes for 6 months, a year, or however long the period is. Most people on this thread seem to think that you NEED a lawyer. I know that if this happened to me, I wouldn't get one...but I have experience with the CJ system. So yeah I wouldn't say you need one, but it might help you to get pre trial probation.

One option is to call the DA's office, explain that you have a JD and are representing yourself, and ask what kind of rec they are thinking for the case. this is not an uncommon practice for defense attorneys defending people with this kind of charge. 1. see if they'll just say this looks like pretrial probation, 2. if not, consider trying to explain the situation to them if it seems appropriate and try to talk them down to pretrial probation. that's what I think you should do, IMHO.

[bjsesq]

you should probably get a lawyer. or at least consult with one. you might be able to get the complaint withdrawn at a clerk's hearing, or get the charge dismissed, or pre-trial probation, or a variety of creative options that keep it from hurting you as much in the job search.

They're a large retail department store chain, so it seems like their process is pretty set? Also, do I need to report this to my state bar?

This isn't about their process, it's about the State's Attorney.

[Anonymous User]

as somebody with experience in criminal law, I can tell you that this situation (low-level theft by somebody with tough stuff going on and no record) is standard pre-trial probation. pre trial probation basically means that it's a dismissal as long as you don't get charged with any new crimes for 6 months, a year, or however long the period is. Most people on this thread seem to think that you NEED a lawyer. I know that if this happened to me, I wouldn't get one...but I have experience with the CJ system. So yeah I wouldn't say you need one, but it might help you to get pre trial probation.

One option is to call the DA's office, explain that you have a JD and are representing yourself, and ask what kind of rec they are thinking for the case. this is not an uncommon practice for defense attorneys defending people with this kind of charge. 1. see if they'll just say this looks like pretrial probation, 2. if not, consider trying to explain the situation to them if it seems appropriate and try to talk them down to pretrial probation. that's what I think you should do, IMHO.

Thank you. What would be the process for me requesting pre-trial probation? The woman at the store said they have a firm that handles this stuff, and I'd be getting letters about my civil fine and a letter to go get finger printed for my criminal stuff. Should I wait for these letters, then call and ask whoever at the firm if they'll do pre-trial probation? Would that be the same as the judge just saying I need to do community service?

[patogordo]

as somebody with experience in criminal law, I can tell you that this situation (low-level theft by somebody with tough stuff going on and no record) is standard pre-trial probation. pre trial probation basically means that it's a dismissal as long as you don't get charged with any new crimes for 6 months, a year, or however long the period is. Most people on this thread seem to think that you NEED a lawyer. I know that if this happened to me, I wouldn't get one...but I have experience with the CJ system. So yeah I wouldn't say you need one, but it might help you to get pre trial probation.

One option is to call the DA's office, explain that you have a JD and are representing yourself, and ask what kind of rec they are thinking for the case. this is not an uncommon practice for defense attorneys defending people with this kind of charge. 1. see if they'll just say this looks like pretrial probation, 2. if not, consider trying to explain the situation to them if it seems appropriate and try to talk them down to pretrial probation. that's what I think you should do, IMHO.

PTP isn't just a dismissal after X months though. PTP means you don't get arraigned, which means you don't have a record at all. and if he gets the complaint withdrawn (if his jx has a process for that) he might not even have to report to employers that he's been charged (depending on the wording). i mean having a dismissed misdemeanor shoplifting on your record isn't exactly the end of the world but when you're already struggling to find a job in a holocaust of a market i would do whatever i could to keep my sheet clean.

[Anonymous User]

as somebody with experience in criminal law, I can tell you that this situation (low-level theft by somebody with tough stuff going on and no record) is standard pre-trial probation. pre trial probation basically means that it's a dismissal as long as you don't get charged with any new crimes for 6 months, a year, or however long the period is. Most people on this thread seem to think that you NEED a lawyer. I know that if this happened to me, I wouldn't get one...but I have experience with the CJ system. So yeah I wouldn't say you need one, but it might help you to get pre trial probation.

One option is to call the DA's office, explain that you have a JD and are representing yourself, and ask what kind of rec they are thinking for the case. this is not an uncommon practice for defense attorneys defending people with this kind of charge. 1. see if they'll just say this looks like pretrial probation, 2. if not, consider trying to explain the situation to them if it seems appropriate and try to talk them down to pretrial probation. that's what I think you should do, IMHO.

PTP isn't just a dismissal after X months though. PTP means you don't get arraigned, which means you don't have a record at all. and if he gets the complaint withdrawn (if his jx has a process for that) he might not even have to report to employers that he's been charged (depending on the wording). i mean having a dismissed misdemeanor shoplifting on your record isn't exactly the end of the world but when you're already struggling to find a job in a holocaust of a market i would do whatever i could to keep my sheet clean.

Would a summary retail theft charge that I just plead to and did the service/fines for make a firm or a government department not hire me pretty much automatically? Does anyone know how this would impact applying to the bar in another state, or if I need to report this to my bar?

[patogordo]

i don't think any of us can answer that question for you, bro. you gotta talk to someone who knows the rules in your state (or research them yourself).

a summary offense just means you don't have a right to a jury trial.

[bjsesq]

as somebody with experience in criminal law, I can tell you that this situation (low-level theft by somebody with tough stuff going on and no record) is standard pre-trial probation. pre trial probation basically means that it's a dismissal as long as you don't get charged with any new crimes for 6 months, a year, or however long the period is. Most people on this thread seem to think that you NEED a lawyer. I know that if this happened to me, I wouldn't get one...but I have experience with the CJ system. So yeah I wouldn't say you need one, but it might help you to get pre trial probation.

One option is to call the DA's office, explain that you have a JD and are representing yourself, and ask what kind of rec they are thinking for the case. this is not an uncommon practice for defense attorneys defending people with this kind of charge. 1. see if they'll just say this looks like pretrial probation, 2. if not, consider trying to explain the situation to them if it seems appropriate and try to talk them down to pretrial probation. that's what I think you should do, IMHO.

PTP isn't just a dismissal after X months though. PTP means you don't get arraigned, which means you don't have a record at all. and if he gets the complaint withdrawn (if his jx has a process for that) he might not even have to report to employers that he's been charged (depending on the wording). i mean having a dismissed misdemeanor shoplifting on your record isn't exactly the end of the world but when you're already struggling to find a job in a holocaust of a market i would do whatever i could to keep my sheet clean.

Would a summary retail theft charge that I just plead to and did the service/fines for make a firm or a government department not hire me pretty much automatically? Does anyone know how this would impact applying to the bar in another state, or if I need to report this to my bar?

I would check the bar website of your state, but in my home state, any criminal charges and even certain driving offenses must be reported.

[Anonymous User]

as somebody with experience in criminal law, I can tell you that this situation (low-level theft by somebody with tough stuff going on and no record) is standard pre-trial probation. pre trial probation basically means that it's a dismissal as long as you don't get charged with any new crimes for 6 months, a year, or however long the period is. Most people on this thread seem to think that you NEED a lawyer. I know that if this happened to me, I wouldn't get one...but I have experience with the CJ system. So yeah I wouldn't say you need one, but it might help you to get pre trial probation.

One option is to call the DA's office, explain that you have a JD and are representing yourself, and ask what kind of rec they are thinking for the case. this is not an uncommon practice for defense attorneys defending people with this kind of charge. 1. see if they'll just say this looks like pretrial probation, 2. if not, consider trying to explain the situation to them if it seems appropriate and try to talk them down to pretrial probation. that's what I think you should do, IMHO.

PTP isn't just a dismissal after X months though. PTP means you don't get arraigned, which means you don't have a record at all. and if he gets the complaint withdrawn (if his jx has a process for that) he might not even have to report to employers that he's been charged (depending on the wording). i mean having a dismissed misdemeanor shoplifting on your record isn't exactly the end of the world but when you're already struggling to find a job in a holocaust of a market i would do whatever i could to keep my sheet clean.

Would a summary retail theft charge that I just plead to and did the service/fines for make a firm or a government department not hire me pretty much automatically? Does anyone know how this would impact applying to the bar in another state, or if I need to report this to my bar?

I would check the bar website of your state, but in my home state, any criminal charges and even certain driving offenses must be reported.

I think I'm going to get a free consultation with a criminal defense attorney and see what they say. Thanks everyone.

[bjsesq]

I think I'm going to get a free consultation with a criminal defense attorney and see what they say. Thanks everyone.

Good call and good luck.

[JCougar]

Does anyone know how this would impact applying to the bar in another state, or if I need to report this to my bar?

It sounds like something you would need to report to most state bars. Just face the music in this regard. Don't try and hide it, because that will get you in much deeper trouble. But look at your bar website, first.

[spleenworship]

I think I'm going to get a free consultation with a criminal defense attorney and see what they say. Thanks everyone.

Good call and good luck.

[jess]

.

[Anonymous User]

Don't plead to anything. That would put a conviction on your record. Just do the diversion/pre trial probation.

I have been arrested before and have gone through something similar w the courts without a lawyer if you want to PM me.

PM'd

[chrisbru]

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

I got offered this job too. Apparently I should have looked non-legal earlier. Base salary is lower, bonus potential makes total salary equal if I get the same "level" of bonus at each one, but the consulting benefits are way better and it would be easier to change cities if I need to. Dunno what to do bros, but super happy right now.

[spleenworship]

The other interview was for an IT consulting job. I was a finance major, but took several computer science classes and know my tech pretty well. They mostly are looking for people who are capable of learning the business because they are in a rapid growth stage. The consulting is all local (no more than 50 miles from the office) and I'd get to be on 3-6 month placements at different companies around the metro area. This really has nothing to do with my law degree, but they like the way JD's think so it gives me a bit of an edge. It was my second-round interview, and they said they'd try and bring me back for a third round interview this week. I'd be totally happy with this job, but I'd take the other one over it if offered both and compensation was close.

I got offered this job too. Apparently I should have looked non-legal earlier. Base salary is lower, bonus potential makes total salary equal if I get the same "level" of bonus at each one, but the consulting benefits are way better and it would be easier to change cities if I need to. Dunno what to do bros, but super happy right now.

Congrats. Always nice to have choices.

[patogordo]

i don't know anything about the two jobs so take this for what it's worth but IT consulting can be a pretty fickle industry. they tend to hire when they need people and then put people "on the bench" -> voluntary buyouts as the work ebbs and flows. but if you get some good experience there can be good exit opportunities. just something to keep in mind.

[chrisbru]

JOB OPPORTUNITY
Saw this on FB. Don't know anything about it, but could be a decent option for those who are just looking for any job:
http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/2014/02/atc-hiring/

i don't know anything about the two jobs so take this for what it's worth but IT consulting can be a pretty fickle industry. they tend to hire when they need people and then put people "on the bench" -> voluntary buyouts as the work ebbs and flows. but if you get some good experience there can be good exit opportunities. just something to keep in mind.

Cool, good information, thanks man.