2021 Special Bonuses Forum

[cheaptilts]

What is S&C doing? What are they waiting for? I'm totally pissed off.

Isn't it just a forgone conclusion that S&C is going to match? It's the second richest BL firm behind Wachtell and all of its peers have matched. It's clearly reputational suicide not to match.

It's literally not the second richest https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020 ... y-partner/

both Paul Weiss and Kirkland are more profitable

S&C was the second most profitable on a PEP basis the year before, so the OP is not really out of bounds for making that claim.

[2013]

What is S&C doing? What are they waiting for? I'm totally pissed off.

Isn't it just a forgone conclusion that S&C is going to match? It's the second richest BL firm behind Wachtell and all of its peers have matched. It's clearly reputational suicide not to match.

It's literally not the second richest https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020 ... y-partner/

both Paul Weiss and Kirkland are more profitable

S&C was the second most profitable on a PEP basis the year before, so the OP is not really out of bounds for making that claim.

I think S&C has the second highest RPL. PPP can be easily gamed (huge nonequity partnership), but it’s harder to game RPL.

[RokosBasilisk2049]

What is S&C doing? What are they waiting for? I'm totally pissed off.

Isn't it just a forgone conclusion that S&C is going to match? It's the second richest BL firm behind Wachtell and all of its peers have matched. It's clearly reputational suicide not to match.

It's literally not the second richest https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020 ... y-partner/

both Paul Weiss and Kirkland are more profitable

I was going off of the 2020 Amlaw super rich list, where sullcrom is #2. Firms can get pretty creative with accounting when calculating PEP, at least in terms of RPL (which is less manipulable) Sullcrom is a good 10-30% ahead of most peer firms actually with a RPL in excess of 1.8mln.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/05/breakin ... -rankings/

Which is just all to say S&C is filthy rich and has no reason not to match

[Anonymous User]

What is S&C doing? What are they waiting for? I'm totally pissed off.

Isn't it just a forgone conclusion that S&C is going to match? It's the second richest BL firm behind Wachtell and all of its peers have matched. It's clearly reputational suicide not to match.

It's literally not the second richest https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020 ... y-partner/

both Paul Weiss and Kirkland are more profitable

I was going off of the 2020 Amlaw super rich list, where sullcrom is #2. Firms can get pretty creative with accounting when calculating PEP, at least in terms of RPL (which is less manipulable) Sullcrom is a good 10-30% ahead of most peer firms actually with a RPL in excess of 1.8mln.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/05/breakin ... -rankings/

Which is just all to say S&C is filthy rich and has no reason not to match

oh sry didn't mean to derail the convo, they are def very profitable; agreed, SullCrom will def match soon

[Anonymous User]

Where’s King & Spalding at?

[Anonymous User]

Where’s King & Spalding at?

Wasn't King & Spalding one of the very last firms to match last year's bonuses? Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought they were generally slow

[Anonymous User]

K&S is always slow. They don't pay year end bonuses until end of March -- it has been that way for many years. That being said, they've always matched the prevailing market, and I'd expect they'll eventually match these 2021 bonuses, too.

[Anonymous User]

What is S&C doing? What are they waiting for? I'm totally pissed off.

Isn't it just a forgone conclusion that S&C is going to match? It's the second richest BL firm behind Wachtell and all of its peers have matched. It's clearly reputational suicide not to match.

It's literally not the second richest https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020 ... y-partner/

both Paul Weiss and Kirkland are more profitable

S&C was the second most profitable on a PEP basis the year before, so the OP is not really out of bounds for making that claim.

I think S&C has the second highest RPL. PPP can be easily gamed (huge nonequity partnership), but it’s harder to game RPL.

Wonder what’s taking them so long, tho. Also, I am kind of curious if some firm will just raise to 200K instead of paying the special bonuses, or more likely, pay the bonuses for this year, but raise next year eliminating special bonuses before it becomes a thing.

[2013]

What is S&C doing? What are they waiting for? I'm totally pissed off.

Isn't it just a forgone conclusion that S&C is going to match? It's the second richest BL firm behind Wachtell and all of its peers have matched. It's clearly reputational suicide not to match.

It's literally not the second richest https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020 ... y-partner/

both Paul Weiss and Kirkland are more profitable

S&C was the second most profitable on a PEP basis the year before, so the OP is not really out of bounds for making that claim.

I think S&C has the second highest RPL. PPP can be easily gamed (huge nonequity partnership), but it’s harder to game RPL.

Wonder what’s taking them so long, tho. Also, I am kind of curious if some firm will just raise to 200K instead of paying the special bonuses, or more likely, pay the bonuses for this year, but raise next year eliminating special bonuses before it becomes a thing.

I think raising salaries locks the firm into paying more indefinitely, and it may not even help with retention unless it is substantially more (like $210 for first year and like $400k for 8th year) plus year-end bonuses. Even then, Kirkland could offer lateral bonuses that blow these numbers out of the water.

[Anonymous User]

K&S is always slow. They don't pay year end bonuses until end of March -- it has been that way for many years. That being said, they've always matched the prevailing market, and I'd expect they'll eventually match these 2021 bonuses, too.

K&S also pay extra for firm building and hours worked over 2050. But waiting for bonuses until April 1 feels like an annual hostage situation. It's hard to justify as simply our "financial year cycle" when NO OTHER FIRM DOES THIS. Also, half of our associate resignations occur on April 2.

[Anonymous User]

Clifford Chance - https://abovethelaw.com/2021/03/cliffor ... onus-2021/

[Anonymous User]

SRZ match, paid June/December. Must be on track to meet target hours, can make up missed payments if you hit hours by December or end of year

[lolwutpar]

Got paid today. No bonus in the bank account. Applying to in house jobs feverishly.

[Anonymous User]

Market changes in comp are never, ever acknowledged by management. Sometimes changes in market comp result in letters sent to associates increasing their annual pay. But definitely no bonuses and never in the amounts paid by all the other firms. It might be different in the major markets but in my secondary market that’s how it’s always been.

The JD comp thread shows that most folks are underpaid.

I don't know why anyone works at Jones Day. When I was at a V5, it wasn't super uncommon for law students to tell us they were deciding between us and JD. I even know some candidates that selected JD over us. I just don't understand why people work for that low rent firm.

You honestly find this difficult to understand? In an industry full of miserable people, some of whom are billing 3,000 hours and hating their lives, you find it crazy that someone might be willing to take a small pay cut to pick a group and firm that they think may offer them a better experience and lifestyle? What I don't understand are completely miserable and overworked people who are amazed that someone might even consider happily, and I mean Happily!, taking a pay cut in hope of finding a more sustainable and fulfilling job, whether that be at JD or anywhere else.

JD is not a lifestyle firm. Everyone I know who works there bills as much as me. The fact that people fall for the garbage being spewed by JD is mystifying to me.

Compared to a V5, JD is absolute a lifestyle firm. There is going to be a huge disparity between average JD hours and average slave labor conditions at Cravath. I'm not sure average V5 associates internalize how much worse they have it than everyone else. Billing 2500 hours at a V30 and threaten to immediately quit unless they lighten your load? They will try and work with you. Billing 2500 and threaten to quite at Cravath? They will help you put your belongings in a box and walk you out the door.

Idk that there's really any truth or evidence behind this other than what you assume to be true? I'm pacing for well over 2,500 at a lower ranked firm and know others that have had multiple full years over that pace. They may say they'll work with you or whatever if you complain but nothing really comes of it. I also doubt Cravath would just gladly let some mid-level walk if they complained about workload...don't they not really hire laterals? I mean if you're a halfway decent mid-level or senior I doubt the partners you work with want you to quit unless it's a true up or out firm and you're going to be "out" soon (and I think true up or out is much less common than it used to be).

And yeah I really doubt Jones Day is materially better lifestyle-wise than much of the V5, although that's going to vary from practice to practice and even partner to partner at each firm. Also don't they still have business formal dress?

Yeah, this is definitely not true. At my V5 they would show us median numbers every year and they were always between 2000-2100 a year. somewhere between 2200-2300 would put you in the top 25% for billers. I have no idea where this myth came from that everyone is billing 2500 hours a year or some garbage. Certainly some people might bill 2500, and every year there were usually like 5-15 people above 2900 hours. Admittedly, this was two years ago an I know people have been getting crushed in the pandemic, so this year might be different. But, I HIGHLY doubt these sorts of numbers are any more than what JD associates in major markets are putting up.

For reference, I'm at a v10. It seems to be somewhat all over the place but agreed not everyone billing 2500+ all the time (except maybe now, because now sucks to be a lawyer....)

2300 first year
2000 second year
2500 third year

others my year that ive heard of

2400
2700
2600

and

2200
2900
2100

[Anonymous User]

V&E matched. 37.5% paid May 31; 62.5% paid October 29

[Anonymous User]

K&S is always slow. They don't pay year end bonuses until end of March -- it has been that way for many years. That being said, they've always matched the prevailing market, and I'd expect they'll eventually match these 2021 bonuses, too.

K&S also pay extra for firm building and hours worked over 2050. But waiting for bonuses until April 1 feels like an annual hostage situation. It's hard to justify as simply our "financial year cycle" when NO OTHER FIRM DOES THIS. Also, half of our associate resignations occur on April 2.

There's at least one firm that pays it March 1.

[Anonymous User]

K&S is always slow. They don't pay year end bonuses until end of March -- it has been that way for many years. That being said, they've always matched the prevailing market, and I'd expect they'll eventually match these 2021 bonuses, too.

K&S also pay extra for firm building and hours worked over 2050. But waiting for bonuses until April 1 feels like an annual hostage situation. It's hard to justify as simply our "financial year cycle" when NO OTHER FIRM DOES THIS. Also, half of our associate resignations occur on April 2.

There's at least one firm that pays it March 1.

[Anonymous User]

What is S&C doing? What are they waiting for? I'm totally pissed off.

Isn't it just a forgone conclusion that S&C is going to match? It's the second richest BL firm behind Wachtell and all of its peers have matched. It's clearly reputational suicide not to match.

It's literally not the second richest https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/2020 ... y-partner/

both Paul Weiss and Kirkland are more profitable

S&C was the second most profitable on a PEP basis the year before, so the OP is not really out of bounds for making that claim.

I think S&C has the second highest RPL. PPP can be easily gamed (huge nonequity partnership), but it’s harder to game RPL.

Wonder what’s taking them so long, tho. Also, I am kind of curious if some firm will just raise to 200K instead of paying the special bonuses, or more likely, pay the bonuses for this year, but raise next year eliminating special bonuses before it becomes a thing.

I think raising salaries locks the firm into paying more indefinitely, and it may not even help with retention unless it is substantially more (like $210 for first year and like $400k for 8th year) plus year-end bonuses. Even then, Kirkland could offer lateral bonuses that blow these numbers out of the water.

K&S associates in ATL and CLT are getting calls regularly from recruiters pitching permanent WFH gigs at other firms that pay NY scale plus massive signing bonuses. I know people who are already planning to leave. The rumor among associates is the firm will bump ATL and CLT up to NY scale to stay competitive. Even before the pandemic it was hard to recruit against Jones Day and Paul Hastings offering $190 starting (even though K&S mid levels probably make more than JD mid levels due to JD’s compression and black box).

I would expect K&S to announce after Paul Hastings and/or Jones Day makes a move. They will definitely pay a full match to everyone in big markets like NY. They will probably match in ATL and CLT as well but they like to wait and see if they can get away with paying less.

[Anonymous User]

Accidental double post.

[Anonymous User]

K&S is always slow. They don't pay year end bonuses until end of March -- it has been that way for many years. That being said, they've always matched the prevailing market, and I'd expect they'll eventually match these 2021 bonuses, too.

K&S also pay extra for firm building and hours worked over 2050. But waiting for bonuses until April 1 feels like an annual hostage situation. It's hard to justify as simply our "financial year cycle" when NO OTHER FIRM DOES THIS. Also, half of our associate resignations occur on April 2.

There's at least one firm that pays it March 1.

Which firm is that? Also, no other firm pays April 1, afaik.

[Anonymous User]

MWE typically pays all bonuses in late March, but did accelerate market bonuses for 2020 to December at market + COVID with extra bonuses paid in late March for excess hours/good reviews.

[Anonymous User]

For those wondering, these seem to be the only v40s that haven’t announced a match yet:

V4 - Sullcrom
V9 - Gibson
V13 - Quinn
V15 - Covington
V16 - jones day (lol of course)
V20 - Williams and Connolly
V21 - Wilmer
V26 - omelveny
V27 - hogan
V29 - BSF
V32 - Arnold and porter
V33 - baker McKenzie
V34 - orrick
V38 - King and Spaulding
V39 - Mayer brown

Once you drop below 40 it seems like a lot more firms haven’t made an announcement yet so I stopped here.

Is this list right? Does anyone else need to be shamed or removed from the list of shame?

[Anonymous User]

Mwe match. Backloaded June/October - 1850 requirement.

[Anonymous User]

V&E matched. 37.5% paid May 31; 62.5% paid October 29

1900 hours requirement, can be made up.

[Anonymous User]

It looks like Orrick just matched, with the potential for an extra bonus for those hitting 2300+. At least according to NEP on Instagram.