Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had? Forum

[krads153]

I thought I-bankers didn't get into work until like 10am.

I admit, though, that I don't know much about that industry.

I think they start work at like 7 am or something early

[krads153]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

And the subsistence farmers from South Sudan with no working water, no healthcare, and a war ravaged country would love to have your 18-30k. What is your point.

Ugh should just be grateful he lives in the US. What a greedy bastard to want more money.

[Danger Zone]

I thought I-bankers didn't get into work until like 10am.

I admit, though, that I don't know much about that industry.

I think they start work at like 7 am or something early

Nah more like 9 from what my friends have said. But then again, probably differs by company.

[Desert Fox]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

This is very true. I'm four months into big law and if you like legal work and your perspective is "I'm getting paid a ton of $ so as a result I have to be on call all the time" you will have a much more grounded perspective. I feel fortunate to have this job and will stay at my firm as long as they let me.

I don't think you understand a single thing in this thread.
I also don't think either of you have been in biglaw very long.

If all you care about is money, you will sustain yourself for a while in biglaw until you burn out. But, if all you care about is money, it is smarter to not waste 3 years of your life in law school and much smarter not to go deeply in debt for this career. Law school is expensive, grades are unpredictable, getting an offer is unsure. The work is demanding, you don't get trained, and only the rarest person is going to make partner.

Most of the 0L people are just chasing the salary combined with no clue as to what being a lawyer means.
For me, the point of the thread is so 0Ls who see the $160,000 understand what they are getting into when they borrow $200,000 (or more) for a shot at biglaw.

Also, I have found that many people can't cope with biglaw physically because they aren't high energy enough, aren't workaholic enough or mostly because they need regular sleep to function. The physical aspect can't be fixed by salary. People minimize that.

There are like 10 different reasons big law sucks in general. Not every practice group in each firm has all the shit factors. And every person tolerates the shit factors differently.

But the odds your group and your personality match so that you have no shit factors that make it intolerable is very low.

This is why everyone has a different reason why biglaw sucks so bad. Hours are too long. Personalities too toxic. Work too detail oriented. Work too simple and boring. Not enough structure. Too much work. Evil bosses. Unfulfilling. Insane fake deadlines. Anxiety. Billable hour.

So even when doofus 0Ls say "hey I can work 60 hours a week." It doesn't matter. Even if true[1], you'll have another reason to hate it.

[1] But lets be honest. I thought I worked a "nearly 60 hour a week job" but I was rolling in breaks, commute, lunch, and every second I was anywhere near on teh clock. In biglaw, you are never truely off. Your phone could buzz and bam you got work. People overblow how much work they do in regular white collar jobs. Teaches pretend they work 80 hours a week when the average like 29 hours with all their breaks. Accountants work like 9-5, except for 2 months of actual 60 hours weeks. Law and Banking are on another level entirely.

[Tls2016]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

This is very true. I'm four months into big law and if you like legal work and your perspective is "I'm getting paid a ton of $ so as a result I have to be on call all the time" you will have a much more grounded perspective. I feel fortunate to have this job and will stay at my firm as long as they let me.

I don't think you understand a single thing in this thread.
I also don't think either of you have been in biglaw very long.

If all you care about is money, you will sustain yourself for a while in biglaw until you burn out. But, if all you care about is money, it is smarter to not waste 3 years of your life in law school and much smarter not to go deeply in debt for this career. Law school is expensive, grades are unpredictable, getting an offer is unsure. The work is demanding, you don't get trained, and only the rarest person is going to make partner.

Most of the 0L people are just chasing the salary combined with no clue as to what being a lawyer means.
For me, the point of the thread is so 0Ls who see the $160,000 understand what they are getting into when they borrow $200,000 (or more) for a shot at biglaw.

Also, I have found that many people can't cope with biglaw physically because they aren't high energy enough, aren't workaholic enough or mostly because they need regular sleep to function. The physical aspect can't be fixed by salary. People minimize that.

There are like 10 different reasons big law sucks in general. Not every practice group in each firm has all the shit factors. And every person tolerates the shit factors differently.

But the odds your group and your personality match so that you have no shit factors that make it intolerable is very low.

This is why everyone has a different reason why biglaw sucks so bad. Hours are too long. Personalities too toxic. Work too detail oriented. Work too simple and boring. Not enough structure. Too much work. Evil bosses. Unfulfilling. Insane fake deadlines. Anxiety. Billable hour.

So even when doofus 0Ls say "hey I can work 60 hours a week." It doesn't matter. Even if true[1], you'll have another reason to hate it.

[1] But lets be honest. I thought I worked a "nearly 60 hour a week job" but I was rolling in breaks, commute, lunch, and every second I was anywhere near on teh clock. In biglaw, you are never truely off. Your phone could buzz and bam you got work. People overblow how much work they do in regular white collar jobs. Teaches pretend they work 80 hours a week when the average like 29 hours with all their breaks. Accountants work like 9-5, except for 2 months of actual 60 hours weeks. Law and Banking are on another level entirely.

Being on call all the time can be brutal and messes with relationships. My friends who are ER docs are on call but,barring some huge emergency or accident, they are protected by limits on how many hours they can work. Not that they don't get exhausted, but there are structures in place. In a lot of ways, biglaw is more about using people up and moving on to the next group coming in the door.

I also found that the reward for doing work quickly was that getting more work. So the impulse to be efficient doesn't really benefit you.

[Aeon]

So even when doofus 0Ls say "hey I can work 60 hours a week." It doesn't matter. Even if true[1], you'll have another reason to hate it.

[1] But lets be honest. I thought I worked a "nearly 60 hour a week job" but I was rolling in breaks, commute, lunch, and every second I was anywhere near on teh clock. In biglaw, you are never truely off. Your phone could buzz and bam you got work. People overblow how much work they do in regular white collar jobs. Teaches pretend they work 80 hours a week when the average like 29 hours with all their breaks. Accountants work like 9-5, except for 2 months of actual 60 hours weeks. Law and Banking are on another level entirely.

DF is spot on. BigLaw hours are unpredictable, and you're on call 24/7. It's a steady background level of stress, as you impulsively check your phone even while you're out of the office and every message alert makes your heart jump. You're never "off." You might have a slow day and then get hit with work in the evening that ostensibly needs to get done by the following day. What makes it worse is that often the deadlines are arbitrary, which becomes evident when the senior lawyer reviews your work a week or two later. Or in other cases the short deadline is because someone was disorganized and realized at the last minute that they need something ASAP, making their poor planning your problem suddenly. This stuff gets old quickly.

And the qualitative nature of the work is different. It's one thing when you have a job that has a lot of interaction with other (non-lawyer) people. But a lot of legal work is solitary and tedious and repetitive, and when it's not, you frequently have to deal with odious personalities. And there's no way to escape it, because you're always tethered to your job electronically.

[Phil Brooks]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

Did you go $200k in debt to get the car salesperson job?

[jkpolk]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

[Anonymous User]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

No, all these factors suck but all in all I still like it. Unless you've been poor, even for only a little while, you don't know how lucky you are to have this kind of job. Yes, there is a big difference between making 4 grand a week pre-tax, and shoplifting zithromax so your 2 year old won't die from the flu, but I think money is one of those things you care about less when you have it. The person who said money doesn't buy happiness was not a poor, no chance in hell.

[JCougar]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

If I were a Biglaw partner right now, I'd be hoppin' mad at law schools for completely lying to prospective students, over-producing lawyers, and screwing this entire profession up. I think very few people would be complaining if all their income weren't going to dig themselves out of a $2-300,000 debt hole--if they're even lucky enough to get that income in the first place.

I'd happily be on call 24-7 for $160K/year if I actually got to keep that $160K. With the present system, there's absolutely no real reward, because by the time you're rejected for partner, you're still probably deeply in debt.

[Aeon]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

If I were a Biglaw partner right now, I'd be hoppin' mad at law schools for completely lying to prospective students, over-producing lawyers, and screwing this entire profession up. I think very few people would be complaining if all their income weren't going to dig themselves out of a $2-300,000 debt hole--if they're even lucky enough to get that income in the first place.

I'd happily be on call 24-7 for $160K/year if I actually got to keep that $160K. With the present system, there's absolutely no real reward, because by the time you're rejected for partner, you're still probably deeply in debt.

If anything, BigLaw partners like the current situation. Large pool of applicants, many bound by debt and unable to leave BigLaw, meaning they take more abuse before feeling like they have no choice but to leave. The lawyer glut has also allowed associate salaries to stagnate for a decade.

[Desert Fox]

Instead of gold chains, I have rusty iron chains of BIGDEBT.

[Desert Fox]

The best part about JCougar (other than being a generally chill and sociable bro), is that you can go look at his posting history and he was just as optimistic as the dissenters in this thread. He was you, you fools.

[JCougar]

If anything, BigLaw partners like the current situation. Large pool of applicants, many bound by debt and unable to leave BigLaw, meaning they take more abuse before feeling like they have no choice but to leave. The lawyer glut has also allowed associate salaries to stagnate for a decade.

I thought about that, but that seems pretty short-sighted.

But then again, it's not like short-sightedness ever stopped the Boomer generation from creating trillion-dollar economic screw-ups.

[sonofnewo]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

If I were a Biglaw partner right now, I'd be hoppin' mad at law schools for completely lying to prospective students, over-producing lawyers, and screwing this entire profession up. I think very few people would be complaining if all their income weren't going to dig themselves out of a $2-300,000 debt hole--if they're even lucky enough to get that income in the first place.

I'd happily be on call 24-7 for $160K/year if I actually got to keep that $160K. With the present system, there's absolutely no real reward, because by the time you're rejected for partner, you're still probably deeply in debt.

If anything, BigLaw partners like the current situation. Large pool of applicants, many bound by debt and unable to leave BigLaw, meaning they take more abuse before feeling like they have no choice but to leave. The lawyer glut has also allowed associate salaries to stagnate for a decade.

It's true, the debt load forces associates to take more before they burn out and leave. If the abuse is a choice rather than a means to an end, it gets old faster.

[jkpolk]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

No, all these factors suck but all in all I still like it. Unless you've been poor, even for only a little while, you don't know how lucky you are to have this kind of job. Yes, there is a big difference between making 4 grand a week pre-tax, and shoplifting zithromax so your 2 year old won't die from the flu, but I think money is one of those things you care about less when you have it. The person who said money doesn't buy happiness was not a poor, no chance in hell.

I understand why you'd be miffed by the discussion but your perspective isn't relavent. When your story is the average person in this job then it'll be different (and associates will have no leverage) .

A lot of people pass on comparable white collar careers (maybe without even considering that choice explicitly) because they don't understand big law vis a vi alternatives. Those are people who are the people complaining and the ones offering cautionary anecdotes. It's no ones fault, just stems from life not being lived in reverse. That's what threads like this are (partially) for.

But ya if I were poor Id def drink/drug myself to death.

[Anonymous User]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

No, all these factors suck but all in all I still like it. Unless you've been poor, even for only a little while, you don't know how lucky you are to have this kind of job. Yes, there is a big difference between making 4 grand a week pre-tax, and shoplifting zithromax so your 2 year old won't die from the flu, but I think money is one of those things you care about less when you have it. The person who said money doesn't buy happiness was not a poor, no chance in hell.

I understand why you'd be miffed by the discussion but your perspective isn't relavent. When your story is the average person in this job then it'll be different (and associates will have no leverage) .

A lot of people pass on comparable white collar careers (maybe without even considering that choice explicitly) because they don't understand big law vis a vi alternatives. Those are people who are the people complaining and the ones offering cautionary anecdotes. It's no ones fault, just stems from life not being lived in reverse. That's what threads like this are (partially) for.

But ya if I were poor Id def drink/drug myself to death.

I would drink less and do fewer drugs, and use my life and the lives of others as tools to get money for my loved ones, but that's why I'm probably not fit to be a lawyer. I doubt partners prefer the current system. In the absence of the loans they could have cut salaries after 2008, and in all likelihood they never would have gotten as high as they did. They also make it more awkward to fire people. If it was just they have to sell their home it'd be easier.

[bk1]

In the absence of the loans they could have cut salaries after 2008, and in all likelihood they never would have gotten as high as they did.

What? No. Firms have the salaries they have to compete with each other in attracting talent, not because people burdened with debt wouldn't choose those jobs if they didn't pay a certain amount.

[Desert Fox]

In the absence of the loans they could have cut salaries after 2008, and in all likelihood they never would have gotten as high as they did.

What? No. Firms have the salaries they have to compete with each other in attracting talent, not because people burdened with debt wouldn't choose those jobs if they didn't pay a certain amount.

Part of the salary/bonus is keeping midlevels and seniors. Having 2-3k a month in fed loan bills keeps people around longer for cheaper. I wouldn't go so far as to say that loans are why wages didn't fall in 2008 (because it was probably just wage stickiness), but it creates a certain upward pressure.

[JCougar]

The best part about JCougar (other than being a generally chill and sociable bro), is that you can go look at his posting history and he was just as optimistic as the dissenters in this thread. He was you, you fools.

I'm happy to present myself as the TLS archetype of the Shakespearian tragedy.

Read my post history and see just how far I've fallen. I used to have manageable debt and a do-nothing job in a low cost of living area of a sub-tropical state. My bosses were insane, but like 90% of all bosses are insane.

I'm now fatter, paler, older, poorer, more depressed, and have basically no prospects for the future other than to die alone from heart failure. The best part of my day is that I work mostly with other people that share in my very failure, and we can joke about how hopeless everything is.

[krads153]

Conspiracy theory: all the idiots who started rolling in like 4 pages ago are big law partners trying to derail the grumbling

No, all these factors suck but all in all I still like it. Unless you've been poor, even for only a little while, you don't know how lucky you are to have this kind of job. Yes, there is a big difference between making 4 grand a week pre-tax, and shoplifting zithromax so your 2 year old won't die from the flu, but I think money is one of those things you care about less when you have it. The person who said money doesn't buy happiness was not a poor, no chance in hell.

I understand why you'd be miffed by the discussion but your perspective isn't relavent. When your story is the average person in this job then it'll be different (and associates will have no leverage) .

A lot of people pass on comparable white collar careers (maybe without even considering that choice explicitly) because they don't understand big law vis a vi alternatives. Those are people who are the people complaining and the ones offering cautionary anecdotes. It's no ones fault, just stems from life not being lived in reverse. That's what threads like this are (partially) for.

+1 It seems like many, if not most, biglawyers graduated from top undergrads and have done pretty well throughout school...I'm sure they could have found something else white collar to do.

[kennethellenparcell]

I think I can definitively say I'm happier in big law. But that's cause before law school, I worked as a paralegal doing what essentially was junior associate work for a crazy partner who realized he could farm out certain junior associate work to kids who just graduated law school at a much cheaper price. I also worked in other law firms where I took calls from personal injury victims and did excel spreadsheet analysis for hours for pennies. I probably worked as many hours as I work now as a paralegal for 1/4 of the salary I make now. Now, the partners I work with are nicer than my old boss (some are still not that nice), and the work I get is more interesting (though some of it is what I used to do as a paralegal). With that said, big law is not for me forever. I think firm life as it is now is fundamentally incompatible with some of the things I want in life: like having a family. But I do think it opens a lot of doors to other legal opportunities - like hopefully a good in house gig if I play my cards right.

So I am happier and this job is better than the ones I've had before. And basically, I think you should work in a big law as a paralegal if you can before law school (tons of big firms hire people straight out of college as paralegals now). Cause realistically that's the job you're going to end up doing after law school if you want to pay off your loans and you should know what you're getting yourself into.

[Anonymous User]

I think I can definitively say I'm happier in big law. But that's cause before law school, I worked as a paralegal doing what essentially was junior associate work for a crazy partner who realized he could farm out certain junior associate work to kids who just graduated law school at a much cheaper price. I also worked in other law firms where I took calls from personal injury victims and did excel spreadsheet analysis for hours for pennies. I probably worked as many hours as I work now as a paralegal for 1/4 of the salary I make now. Now, the partners I work with are nicer than my old boss (some are still not that nice), and the work I get is more interesting (though some of it is what I used to do as a paralegal). With that said, big law is not for me forever. I think firm life as it is now is fundamentally incompatible with some of the things I want in life: like having a family. But I do think it opens a lot of doors to other legal opportunities - like hopefully a good in house gig if I play my cards right.

So I am happier and this job is better than the ones I've had before. And basically, I think you should work in a big law as a paralegal if you can before law school (tons of big firms hire people straight out of college as paralegals now). Cause realistically that's the job you're going to end up doing after law school if you want to pay off your loans and you should know what you're getting yourself into.

How much do big law paralegals make? Seems they're out by 5 every day, but don't seem to be treated very well. I get the impression that they're perceived closer to how lawyers perceive janitors than how they perceive juniors.

[ughbugchugplug]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

This is very true. I'm four months into big law and if you like legal work and your perspective is "I'm getting paid a ton of $ so as a result I have to be on call all the time" you will have a much more grounded perspective. I feel fortunate to have this job and will stay at my firm as long as they let me.

I don't think you understand a single thing in this thread.
I also don't think either of you have been in biglaw very long.

If all you care about is money, you will sustain yourself for a while in biglaw until you burn out. But, if all you care about is money, it is smarter to not waste 3 years of your life in law school and much smarter not to go deeply in debt for this career. Law school is expensive, grades are unpredictable, getting an offer is unsure. The work is demanding, you don't get trained, and only the rarest person is going to make partner.

Most of the 0L people are just chasing the salary combined with no clue as to what being a lawyer means.
For me, the point of the thread is so 0Ls who see the $160,000 understand what they are getting into when they borrow $200,000 (or more) for a shot at biglaw.

Also, I have found that many people can't cope with biglaw physically because they aren't high energy enough, aren't workaholic enough or mostly because they need regular sleep to function. The physical aspect can't be fixed by salary. People minimize that.

"Ughbug" hasn't even started biglaw yet. The other one is a "first year" veteran of the biglaw industry (4 whole months).

No offense to ugh, but I don't even know what it means to "work" 50-60 hours a week in sales. Were you sitting there doing nothing or actually working? Are you just counting office time or what? Because billables don't mean time in the office (obviously).

TEACHERS get paid more than 18-30k a year; plus they don't have to work for 3 months out of the year (if not 4 months including winter break). The average nurse gets paid 70k in the United States and isn't working 50-60 hours a week. You're an idiot if you choose to work in sales making 18-30k a year while "working" 50-60 hours a week and you aren't ESL/ an immigrant. I could understand why immigrants have to take jobs working long hours with little pay; but not why a US born citizen who is fluent in English would. Waiters probably make more than 18k a year on average.

So no, I have no sympathy for people who aren't ESL/immigrants who choose to "work" 50-60 hours a week making less than waiters do. You probably majored in English or some useless, bullshit degree (and therefore barely worked in college). And you clearly don't make good choices with your life - first "working" 50-60 hours a week making less money than waiters make, and now probably taking out loans for biglaw.

Alright, let's clear some stuff up. I'm not asking for sympathy. I was trying to expose you to the fact that there is a large class of people for whom 160k a year is an enormous (for 75%+ of the population, unattainably enormous at any point in their life) amount of money to be making every year. The fact that the job you work in order to make that money is a drag doesn't make it a bad job. People work at jobs they don't like, with managers they don't like, and with hours they don't like, and never reach the level of success you had in the first year of your professional life. That's why I called the people in this thread entitled. They have more resources than they could ever need, and are complaining because they're still missing some steps in Maslow's hierarchy. Do you really contest that this thread is essentially a big 'sure I'm wealthy but I really just wish my job was both fulfilling and high paying' complaintfest? And lets dispense with the crap about 160 not being very much. People live in NYC on 40K or less a year, and a lot of them have student debt that exceeds their annual pay. The point here is that if you work in big law you are doing very, very well.

As for my 'choice' to 'work' 50-60 hours a week, you should try getting a job out of college with a liberal arts degree in the middle of a recession. Let me know how much of a 'choice' a job that covers the rent is. Sure, I could have gotten an engineering degree or tried to break into teaching (a more challenging prospect than you might think in the current NJ hiring market). But those opportunities aren't available to everyone. What about people that aren't smart? That didn't get into or go to college? Or that couldn't afford it? I have a friend who couldn't get financial aid for college because his parents' credit was too low. Does he have a 'choice' when he takes a service job for pennies? This is the point about privilege I'm trying to make. Your job makes you rich. You want your job to also make you happy. Most people don't pass the threshold you're taking for granted.

Edit: I think some commenters are under the impression that I think my sales job was as hard as, or involved as many hours as, big law. I know that's not true. That wasn't the point. The point is that if you make a lot of money the threshold for a case of 'bad job' is much harder to accomplish.

[PeanutsNJam]

Not all biglaw is the same. 110-125k starting at a secondary market where high quality 1BR rent is around $1000-1500, and you work 8-7 at most, is a cushy gig. Not as much ~~prestige~~ as NYC biglaw but you don't hate your life so there it is. Had lunch with a 3rd year Patent Lit; he's already been in court twice. NLJ 250 firms. There are ones with no facetime requirements, and the average hrs billed/yr are around 1800 for associates. No layoffs, even though 1900 is "required."