2015 Biglaw Boneus Thread Forum

[instride91]

can't wait for DPW to SHATTER (our dreams)

Can we please speculate as to why DPW and S&C have yet to announce bonuses?

ugh I still have hoap why?

Why would they wait to announce bonuses if they just plan on matching? Doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous User]

S&C won't announce until DPW has announced. They don't want to be in the position Cravath was in last year, having matched Simpson and then DPW topping them. That's the strategy that comports with S&C's conservative approach.

As for DPW, they are likely worried about being upped based on last year. Everyone I speak to seems to think DPW was first to announce last year, even though both Simpson and Cravath announced before DPW. I would guess that DPW is also trying to be last to match.

[smaug]

Why are you all anon and why are you saying dumb things?

[Br3v]

When an anon is not speaking to you or about you, why do non-mods care that people use anon?

[smaug]

When an anon is not speaking to you or about you, why do non-mods care that people use anon?

Because I want to make fun of them and I want them to feel shame for being dumb.

[smaug]

Also because it's normally some shithead law student.

[Anonymous User]

First-year associate. Are you expected to hit the bonus or is there an hourly total that's not bonus level, but enough to keep moving? I don't know if 9K post tax offsets the health risks of an add'l 200 billable hours.

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

First-year associate. Are you expected to hit the bonus or is there an hourly total that's not bonus level, but enough to keep moving? I don't know if 9K post tax offsets the health risks of an add'l 200 billable hours.

This is entirely firm dependent and also hinges upon the number of hours required to hit bonus in the first place.

For example, if you're at a place where bonus = 2000, and you come in over 1800 but shy of 2000, then it's probably not a huge issue as a first year. But if you're at a place where bonus = 1800, and you're coming in at 1600, then that might be a different story (are there even places that have bonus = 1600 anymore? I know Skadden used to have that but raised this year...but God help you if you're coming in at 1400...)

It also probably depends on your office/group/class; coming in well short of your peers is probably also going to be a problem; but if everyone in your group is in the same spot, then it's probably not an issue.

[BigZuck]

First-year associate. Are you expected to hit the bonus or is there an hourly total that's not bonus level, but enough to keep moving? I don't know if 9K post tax offsets the health risks of an add'l 200 billable hours.

I'm just a shithead law student but my gut tells me that your firm/people at your firm have got to be a better source of info on this topic than a bunch of shithead anons/smog the shithead.

[mvp99]

STB or Skadden will increase the scale.. I'm willing to bet if someone takes 100 to 1

This guy is an idiot. Thank god you don't have money to gamble.

[n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t]

Well he only has to be right more than 1% of the time for that bet to have a positive expectation (albeit with amusing variance).

[enibs]

It would be hilarious if DPW significantly undercuts Cravath's bonuses but goes to 190. Would be a nice windfall for associates at the few firms that already matched bonuses

This makes no sense. If DPW were to match total comp by cutting bonuses and increasing base, no firm that paid the higher bonuses would feel the need to match DPW's base. And it would leave DPW in the same awkward position as Skadden was from 2000-2005 - Skadden overshot the mark by going to 140K starting base at the height of the internet bubble in 2000, when everyone else went to 125K, and then spent the next five years offsetting their higher base by paying 15K less in bonuses every year until the going rate for starting base went up to 145K in 2006 and then 160K in 2007.

If DPW feels the need to increase comp, they'll either match bonuses and increase base, or increase bonuses. For the reasons I've previously stated, I don't think they'll feel the need to increase comp, and I'm expecting them, and S&C, to match bonuses in the next few days and not to increase base. But if they were to increase comp, it's far more likely that they'd increase bonuses rather than lock themselves into a higher base. And if they were to increase bonuses, I expect they'd do what they did last year, and increase them only for the third or fourth year class and above, in order to create a little more differentiation between comp for junior associates, who are still relatively overpaid, and comp for more senior associates, who are relatively underpaid.

[mvp99]

It would be hilarious if DPW significantly undercuts Cravath's bonuses but goes to 190. Would be a nice windfall for associates at the few firms that already matched bonuses

This makes no sense. If DPW were to match total comp by cutting bonuses and increasing base, no firm that paid the higher bonuses would feel the need to match DPW's base. And it would leave DPW in the same awkward position as Skadden was from 2000-2005 - Skadden overshot the mark by going to 140K starting base at the height of the internet bubble in 2000, when everyone else went to 125K, and then spent the next five years offsetting their higher base by paying 15K less in bonuses every year until the going rate for starting base went up to 145K in 2006 and then 160K in 2007.

If DPW feels the need to increase comp, they'll either match bonuses and increase base, or increase bonuses. For the reasons I've previously stated, I don't think they'll feel the need to increase comp, and I'm expecting them, and S&C, to match bonuses in the next few days and not to increase base. But if they were to increase comp, it's far more likely that they'd increase bonuses rather than lock themselves into a higher base. And if they were to increase bonuses, I expect they'd do what they did last year, and increase them only for the third or fourth year class and above, in order to create a little more differentiation between comp for junior associates, who are still relatively overpaid, and comp for more senior associates, who are relatively underpaid.

Are you a partner?

[enibs]

Are you a partner?

I'm not inclined to identify myself, so feel free to draw your own conclusions. I do think the view I expressed, of which you highlighted only part, is widely shared by partners and senior associates alike, recognizing that senior associates may not be entirely impartial on the topic.

Just to be clear, I was not intending to comment on the question of whether associates as a whole are overpaid or underpaid. I tend to believe that everyone deserves to be paid as much as they can get. My point was much narrower, namely that in general, for any given level of aggregate associate compensation, the current compensation structure allocates a share of the pie to junior associates that is proportionately higher than their relative value to the firm, and allocates a share of the pie to senior associates that is proportionately lower than their relative value to the firm. And I was making that point only in the context of idle speculation as to what DPW might do if it decided to raise associate compensation, with the caveat that I don't think DPW is going to raise associate compensation at all, as I don't think current market conditions give them the incentive to do so.

In any event, we'll find out the answer soon enough.

[Anonymous User]

Proskauer just matched Cravath ...

[trbrny]

Proskauer just matched Cravath ...

That was our last great hope...

[Big Shrimpin]

Still nada from dpw/s&c?

[phonepro]

Still nada from dpw/s&c?

DPW associate here - nothing. Find it very surprising they are waiting this long. Unless they plan to do something different, why wait this long? Last year bonuses were paid on 12/24.

[Big Shrimpin]

yeah it's borderline unprofessional at this point

as I've said in the past, people have fucking expectations and rely on this portion of discretionary (eh, more like deferred variable) compensation

tso inconsiderate

[anonnymouse]

Proskauer just matched Cravath ...

This is even more dog bites man than dog bites man.

[phonepro]

yeah it's borderline unprofessional at this point

as I've said in the past, people have fucking expectations and rely on this portion of discretionary (eh, more like deferred variable) compensation

tso inconsiderate

I honestly think they may have plans of doing something differently.

Does anyone know historically how quickly DPW responded to Cravath or others announcing first. Not last year when they topped the market (i think it took 4 days), but in the past when they always matched.

[trebekismyhero]

Anyone at major firms in Chicago/LA/SF or DC hear if any are matching Cravath?

[anonnymouse]

yeah it's borderline unprofessional at this point

as I've said in the past, people have fucking expectations and rely on this portion of discretionary (eh, more like deferred variable) compensation

tso inconsiderate

I honestly think they may have plans of doing something differently.

Does anyone know historically how quickly DPW responded to Cravath or others announcing first. Not last year when they topped the market (i think it took 4 days), but in the past when they always matched.

Seems like they have matched about two weeks after Cravath announced, usually right after S&C announces a match.

[Anonymous User]

yeah it's borderline unprofessional at this point

as I've said in the past, people have fucking expectations and rely on this portion of discretionary (eh, more like deferred variable) compensation

tso inconsiderate

I honestly think they may have plans of doing something differently.

Does anyone know historically how quickly DPW responded to Cravath or others announcing first. Not last year when they topped the market (i think it took 4 days), but in the past when they always matched.

Seems like they have matched about two weeks after Cravath announced, usually right after S&C announces a match.

Well there goes that theory.

[mvp99]

yeah it's borderline unprofessional at this point

as I've said in the past, people have fucking expectations and rely on this portion of discretionary (eh, more like deferred variable) compensation

tso inconsiderate

I honestly think they may have plans of doing something differently.

Does anyone know historically how quickly DPW responded to Cravath or others announcing first. Not last year when they topped the market (i think it took 4 days), but in the past when they always matched.

Seems like they have matched about two weeks after Cravath announced, usually right after S&C announces a match.

OMG Bonus to 30k first year + NYC to 190k!!