2014 Texas OCI (UT and other schools bidding on TX) Forum

[WokeUpInACar]

Do people know how long V&E normally takes to send their offer letters? I got a phone call on Wednesday but still haven't gotten anything in the mail or by email.

Anyone?

Do you really think they're going to renege on you or something? Why does it matter?

[Anonymous User]

Do people know how long V&E normally takes to send their offer letters? I got a phone call on Wednesday but still haven't gotten anything in the mail or by email.

Anyone?

Do you really think they're going to renege on you or something? Why does it matter?

Idk, it just makes everything more official. It's like looking forward to getting an acceptance package from a school, and I'm excited. Also want to know program dates, but I guess I could always just call the recruiter for that on Monday.

I have an offer deadline coming up in about a week, so I'd like to just have it in writing. Every other firm has sent me a PDF of the offer letter on the same day, and yeah, there's a part of me wondering if I'm going to get a phone call on Monday saying loljk we made a mistake.

[Anonymous User]

Do people know how long V&E normally takes to send their offer letters? I got a phone call on Wednesday but still haven't gotten anything in the mail or by email.

Anyone?

Haven't got mine either yet. Wednesday as well.

Edit: actually just checked the mail and got it.

[Anonymous User]

Ding from JW-Dallas, post-cb

How did you hear? Email or snail mail? And when was your CB?

Snail mail

[Anonymous User]

Any Susman Godfrey (houston) info?

[Anonymous User]

Agreed on the analysis re LW v. VE v. KE. But I would strongly caution against BB - the Houston office isn't nearly the Corporate player it once was. I would rank (mostly focusing on work quality) the Houston Corp groups as follows:

LW/VE

BG/AK

Sidley/KE/BB/STB

Akin/Paul Hastings

NRF/Locke Lord/Jones Day/Mayer Brown

HayBoo/Porter Hedges/Winston & Strawn/TK/Baker & McKenzie

Gardere/Jackson Walker/Winstead/Strasburger

Right now I'm sitting on a post-2L summer offer from one of the fifth-tier firms in Houston (at least according to the above) in their corporate/M&A group and another offer from one of the litigation groups in the same firm. The firm is much stronger in that field of litigation (first band nationwide according to Chambers) than it is in M&A. Would it be a bad idea to do M&A even though corporate was the goal all along? I guess not, since I know that's what I want to do , but a part of me is second-guessing because I did enjoy the people in litigation at least as much even though I don't know if I have that "drive" (or whatever) to litigate for 50-60 hours a week every week. Would the exit ops for corporate/M&A from one of the lower-tier firms be that much worse compared to the top-tier firms?

[Anonymous User]

Any input on BB v. K&L v. V&E v. GDC (all Dallas) for litigation?

Anyone?

[Anonymous User]

Currently have B&G, AK, V&E, and BB. All Houston. Any thoughts for someone who is unsure on litigation v. corporate work long-term? Any that have better exit options/partnership chances? (BG/AK is second-half only; V&E/BB is first-half only) Thanks!

Bump. Any thoughts much appreciated!

[Anonymous User]

Currently have B&G, AK, V&E, and BB. All Houston. Any thoughts for someone who is unsure on litigation v. corporate work long-term? Any that have better exit options/partnership chances? (BG/AK is second-half only; V&E/BB is first-half only) Thanks!

Bump. Any thoughts much appreciated!

Neither of BB or V&E have much of a lit. department anymore, though BB is the stronger of the two. The trade off there is that BB is really no longer a top tier corporate shop in Houston anymore (V&E and Latham are now). That being said, BB is still a solid firm.

I feel that AK is slightly above B&G in both lit and corporate work in Houston. Both will give you good exposure to solid mid size deals with some larger and more complex deals thrown in (probably more complex overall at AK). Both still have sizable and good lit groups as well.

Really, congrats, you have four great choices and with the split you will be able to do, you will get great exposure no matter what you choose.

[Anonymous User]

Currently have B&G, AK, V&E, and BB. All Houston. Any thoughts for someone who is unsure on litigation v. corporate work long-term? Any that have better exit options/partnership chances? (BG/AK is second-half only; V&E/BB is first-half only) Thanks!

Bump. Any thoughts much appreciated!

Neither of BB or V&E have much of a lit. department anymore, though BB is the stronger of the two. The trade off there is that BB is really no longer a top tier corporate shop in Houston anymore (V&E and Latham are now). That being said, BB is still a solid firm.

I feel that AK is slightly above B&G in both lit and corporate work in Houston. Both will give you good exposure to solid mid size deals with some larger and more complex deals thrown in (probably more complex overall at AK). Both still have sizable and good lit groups as well.

Really, congrats, you have four great choices and with the split you will be able to do, you will get great exposure no matter what you choose.

Excellent - thanks for the insight. Leaning V&E/AK split right now given my openness to practice area

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into LL vs. VE for lit? Leaning towards LL for fit reasons (only spending half of summer in Houston).

[Anonymous User]

Currently have B&G, AK, V&E, and BB. All Houston. Any thoughts for someone who is unsure on litigation v. corporate work long-term? Any that have better exit options/partnership chances? (BG/AK is second-half only; V&E/BB is first-half only) Thanks!

Bump. Any thoughts much appreciated!

Neither of BB or V&E have much of a lit. department anymore, though BB is the stronger of the two. The trade off there is that BB is really no longer a top tier corporate shop in Houston anymore (V&E and Latham are now). That being said, BB is still a solid firm.

I feel that AK is slightly above B&G in both lit and corporate work in Houston. Both will give you good exposure to solid mid size deals with some larger and more complex deals thrown in (probably more complex overall at AK). Both still have sizable and good lit groups as well.

Really, congrats, you have four great choices and with the split you will be able to do, you will get great exposure no matter what you choose.

Should this play a role at all? V&E's offer rate wasn't great last year:

V&E- 33/40
BB- 25/27
AK- 18/19
B&G- 29/32

[Anonymous User]

Agreed on the analysis re LW v. VE v. KE. But I would strongly caution against BB - the Houston office isn't nearly the Corporate player it once was. I would rank (mostly focusing on work quality) the Houston Corp groups as follows:

LW/VE

BG/AK

Sidley/KE/BB/STB

Akin/Paul Hastings

NRF/Locke Lord/Jones Day/Mayer Brown

HayBoo/Porter Hedges/Winston & Strawn/TK/Baker & McKenzie

Gardere/Jackson Walker/Winstead/Strasburger

Right now I'm sitting on a post-2L summer offer from one of the fifth-tier firms in Houston (at least according to the above) in their corporate/M&A group and another offer from one of the litigation groups in the same firm. The firm is much stronger in that field of litigation (first band nationwide according to Chambers) than it is in M&A. Would it be a bad idea to do M&A even though corporate was the goal all along? I guess not, since I know that's what I want to do , but a part of me is second-guessing because I did enjoy the people in litigation at least as much even though I don't know if I have that "drive" (or whatever) to litigate for 50-60 hours a week every week. Would the exit ops for corporate/M&A from one of the lower-tier firms be that much worse compared to the top-tier firms?

I can't really speak to exit options, but I do think you should do corporate/M&A if you're most interested in corporate/M&A and that was your goal all along. You seem unsure about litigation, and if you end up disliking it, you'll be miserable going into work everyday knowing you could/should be doing corporate work. I think you'll be a better and happier lawyer if you focus on working in a practice group you enjoy and work on building that skillset.

Would you even be interested in the litigation exit options that your firm would provide anyway? I know that a common exit option for corporate is in house, but I'm not sure how things work for litigators. Lateral to a smaller firm/botique doing more litigation?

Maybe NRF isn't in the same tier as V&E when it comes to corporate work, but it's still a great firm. We're really just splitting hairs between some really nice options in TX at this point.

[Anonymous User]

While we're on the subject, how would y'all rank litigation practices in Houston? Obviously Susman and AZA are near the top. I've heard good things about Jones Day. But I'd be curious to see if there is any consensus.

[Anonymous User]

Disclaimer: I know far less about litigation than I do corporate, but I figured I would give it a stab anyway so we could discuss and people can adjust accordingly. Also not sure if I'm underrating V&E/BB because they seem like much stronger corporate firms and their litigation departments, like those of many firms in Houston, have been scaled back considerably.

Susman

Gibbs & Bruns/mckool smith/Beck Redden/Yetter Coleman/AZA

NRF/LL

Jones Day/HB/K&S

BB/V&E/Bracewell/AK

Porter Hedges/JW/Gardere/Winstead

[Anonymous User]

Agreed on the analysis re LW v. VE v. KE. But I would strongly caution against BB - the Houston office isn't nearly the Corporate player it once was. I would rank (mostly focusing on work quality) the Houston Corp groups as follows:

LW/VE

BG/AK

Sidley/KE/BB/STB

Akin/Paul Hastings

NRF/Locke Lord/Jones Day/Mayer Brown

HayBoo/Porter Hedges/Winston & Strawn/TK/Baker & McKenzie

Gardere/Jackson Walker/Winstead/Strasburger

Right now I'm sitting on a post-2L summer offer from one of the fifth-tier firms in Houston (at least according to the above) in their corporate/M&A group and another offer from one of the litigation groups in the same firm. The firm is much stronger in that field of litigation (first band nationwide according to Chambers) than it is in M&A. Would it be a bad idea to do M&A even though corporate was the goal all along? I guess not, since I know that's what I want to do , but a part of me is second-guessing because I did enjoy the people in litigation at least as much even though I don't know if I have that "drive" (or whatever) to litigate for 50-60 hours a week every week. Would the exit ops for corporate/M&A from one of the lower-tier firms be that much worse compared to the top-tier firms?

I can't really speak to exit options, but I do think you should do corporate/M&A if you're most interested in corporate/M&A and that was your goal all along. You seem unsure about litigation, and if you end up disliking it, you'll be miserable going into work everyday knowing you could/should be doing corporate work. I think you'll be a better and happier lawyer if you focus on working in a practice group you enjoy and work on building that skillset.

Would you even be interested in the litigation exit options that your firm would provide anyway? I know that a common exit option for corporate is in house, but I'm not sure how things work for litigators. Lateral to a smaller firm/botique doing more litigation?

Maybe NRF isn't in the same tier as V&E when it comes to corporate work, but it's still a great firm. We're really just splitting hairs between some really nice options in TX at this point.

Thanks for your input. This is what I was thinking too but it's reassuring to hear the same from another. Sometimes there are forks in the road and you just take it. It's pointless agonizing over what you don't know about how the future will play out.

[Anonymous User]

I am waiting on Beck Redden as well. I am tempted to email the recruiter as they said they would get back to us this week. I interviewed late last week. I know of 3 others from UT that interviewed there as well.

Curious if you contacted them or not?

[Anonymous User]

I am waiting on Beck Redden as well. I am tempted to email the recruiter as they said they would get back to us this week. I interviewed late last week. I know of 3 others from UT that interviewed there as well.

Curious if you contacted them or not?

Also curious. Still waiting.

[Anonymous User]

I am waiting on Beck Redden as well. I am tempted to email the recruiter as they said they would get back to us this week. I interviewed late last week. I know of 3 others from UT that interviewed there as well.

Curious if you contacted them or not?

Also curious. Still waiting.

I'm assuming snail mail rejections at this point, had my cb a long time ago

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have a recent Jones Day Dallas offer? I did my cb during the week of Aug. 25. Hoping that the hiring committee meets on Mondays and they skipped last week due to Labor Day, but I'm guessing thats a long shot at this point.

[Anonymous User]

Currently have B&G, AK, V&E, and BB. All Houston. Any thoughts for someone who is unsure on litigation v. corporate work long-term? Any that have better exit options/partnership chances? (BG/AK is second-half only; V&E/BB is first-half only) Thanks!

Bump. Any thoughts much appreciated!

Neither of BB or V&E have much of a lit. department anymore, though BB is the stronger of the two. The trade off there is that BB is really no longer a top tier corporate shop in Houston anymore (V&E and Latham are now). That being said, BB is still a solid firm.

I feel that AK is slightly above B&G in both lit and corporate work in Houston. Both will give you good exposure to solid mid size deals with some larger and more complex deals thrown in (probably more complex overall at AK). Both still have sizable and good lit groups as well.

Really, congrats, you have four great choices and with the split you will be able to do, you will get great exposure no matter what you choose.

Excellent - thanks for the insight. Leaning V&E/AK split right now given my openness to practice area

That's the way to go, IMO. BG v. AK is a tough call, but if you're open to lit, I think that gives the tiebreaker to AK. V&E v. BB is an easy call.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed on the analysis re LW v. VE v. KE. But I would strongly caution against BB - the Houston office isn't nearly the Corporate player it once was. I would rank (mostly focusing on work quality) the Houston Corp groups as follows:

LW/VE

BG/AK

Sidley/KE/BB/STB

Akin/Paul Hastings

NRF/Locke Lord/Jones Day/Mayer Brown

HayBoo/Porter Hedges/Winston & Strawn/TK/Baker & McKenzie

Gardere/Jackson Walker/Winstead/Strasburger

Right now I'm sitting on a post-2L summer offer from one of the fifth-tier firms in Houston (at least according to the above) in their corporate/M&A group and another offer from one of the litigation groups in the same firm. The firm is much stronger in that field of litigation (first band nationwide according to Chambers) than it is in M&A. Would it be a bad idea to do M&A even though corporate was the goal all along? I guess not, since I know that's what I want to do , but a part of me is second-guessing because I did enjoy the people in litigation at least as much even though I don't know if I have that "drive" (or whatever) to litigate for 50-60 hours a week every week. Would the exit ops for corporate/M&A from one of the lower-tier firms be that much worse compared to the top-tier firms?

I can't really speak to exit options, but I do think you should do corporate/M&A if you're most interested in corporate/M&A and that was your goal all along. You seem unsure about litigation, and if you end up disliking it, you'll be miserable going into work everyday knowing you could/should be doing corporate work. I think you'll be a better and happier lawyer if you focus on working in a practice group you enjoy and work on building that skillset.

Would you even be interested in the litigation exit options that your firm would provide anyway? I know that a common exit option for corporate is in house, but I'm not sure how things work for litigators. Lateral to a smaller firm/botique doing more litigation?

Maybe NRF isn't in the same tier as V&E when it comes to corporate work, but it's still a great firm. We're really just splitting hairs between some really nice options in TX at this point.

Totally agree with this advice. NRF may not have quite the same level of sophistication as V&E for Corp work, but its a top notch firm. And if you end up liking Corporate work but wanting to move to a different firm or go in-house down the road, you'll have no shortage of options.

[Anonymous User]

Any input on BB v. K&L v. V&E v. GDC (all Dallas) for litigation?

Anyone?

Didn't you already ask this? Consensus was fairly strong, iirc: GDC > BB > VE > KL

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have a recent Jones Day Dallas offer? I did my cb during the week of Aug. 25. Hoping that the hiring committee meets on Mondays and they skipped last week due to Labor Day, but I'm guessing thats a long shot at this point.

I feel better now, and you should too. I did my CB at the end of the week of the 25th, and haven't heard of any movement from JD Dallas.

The only bad thing is that recruiting told me the hiring committee meets on Tuesdays. And there has been a regular, business day Tuesday since our callbacks. So hopefully, as you said, Labor Day slowed them down.

[Anonymous User]

The difference in speeds between the different 'tiered' firms is pretty astounding. It appears the top firms as a general rule are pretty quick in getting their offers out there while the other large firms are about as slow as molasses.