2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

Honestly think something like the below is a distinct possibility, slight increase to base with promise of some Spring/Summer special payouts.

* Class of 2021: Base: $20,000 (pro-rated); May 2022 Special Bonus: $10,000 (pro-rated); total: $30,000 (pro-rated)
* Class of 2020: Base: $20,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $10,000; total: $30,000
* Class of 2019: Base: $30,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $15,000; total: $45,000
* Class of 2018: Base: $60,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $20,000; total: $80,000
* Class of 2017: Base: $75,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $25,000; total: $100,000
* Class of 2016: Base: $90,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $30,000; total: $120,000
* Class of 2015: Base: $100,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $35,000; total: $135,000
* Class of 2014 and above: Base: $120,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $40,000; total: $160,000

This would represent a cut in December bonuses for most people vs. 2020. (https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/cravath-bonuses/) There's no way they're getting away with that. People would quit in droves. At a minimum they'll need to match what they did last year. Actually people would quit in droves if they just matched everyone knows the industry is making record profits.

Do people actually view comp this way? The 2nd payment of the special bonuses paid this year matched last year's special bonuses (plus there was the spring payment).

Don't disagree that flat annual bonuses would be very disappointing given the year we've had, but calling it a pay cut is pretty iffy.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly think something like the below is a distinct possibility, slight increase to base with promise of some Spring/Summer special payouts.

* Class of 2021: Base: $20,000 (pro-rated); May 2022 Special Bonus: $10,000 (pro-rated); total: $30,000 (pro-rated)
* Class of 2020: Base: $20,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $10,000; total: $30,000
* Class of 2019: Base: $30,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $15,000; total: $45,000
* Class of 2018: Base: $60,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $20,000; total: $80,000
* Class of 2017: Base: $75,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $25,000; total: $100,000
* Class of 2016: Base: $90,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $30,000; total: $120,000
* Class of 2015: Base: $100,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $35,000; total: $135,000
* Class of 2014 and above: Base: $120,000; May 2022 Special Bonus: $40,000; total: $160,000

This would represent a cut in December bonuses for most people vs. 2020. (https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/cravath-bonuses/) There's no way they're getting away with that. People would quit in droves. At a minimum they'll need to match what they did last year. Actually people would quit in droves if they just matched everyone knows the industry is making record profits.

Do people actually view comp this way? The 2nd payment of the special bonuses paid this year matched last year's special bonuses (plus there was the spring payment).

Don't disagree that flat annual bonuses would be very disappointing given the year we've had, but calling it a pay cut is pretty iffy.

I guess we'll have to see others' responses but I certainly view it that way. The Cravath scale I linked was for all effective purposes the end of year scale for firms in the V25. Some paid a piece of that a little earlier and others rolled it into a single payment but regardless that was the 2020 year end scale. Hard to see how to spin it otherwise. No one cares that firms paid a fall bonus in September. We're talking year end now.

[Anonymous User]

Why would people not care about the fall bonuses paid in September? I'd rather get paid earlier than later...if anything having the special bonus portion of last year's bonus shift to earlier in the year is a benefit. Makes no sense to look at it as a pay cut.

[Anonymous User]

Why would people not care about the fall bonuses paid in September? I'd rather get paid earlier than later...if anything having the special bonus portion of last year's bonus shift to earlier in the year is a benefit. Makes no sense to look at it as a pay cut.

I certainly care about them the point I'm making is the industry standard comp is now: spring bonus, fall bonus, year end bonus, at least for 2021. Law firms don't get to "roll in" what they paid as a fall bonus into the calculation of what they're doing end of year like some retroactive thing that's ridiculous. I haven't met an associate who thinks like this we all view the May/September payments as separate from whatever the firm does in December and we're comparing what happens this December to what was paid by firms in 2020 November/December.

What happened last year was different: there was an unpredictable decision by certain firms to pay out an "extra" bonus around November because financials were much better than all the doom & gloom had predicted; firms either paid out in November or rolled it into what they did in December but it was part of the year-end comp either way as the Cravath memo makes clear. Firms in 2021 can't take double credit for what they've paid in September for purposes of how much they think they're giving associates year-end that's ridiculous.

(I'm talking about firms that paid the spring/fall standard bonus scale; not talking about shops like Mintz that paid out something extra in November 2021 on top of what they paid in September 2021, that's legit and should be considered when Mintz associates are tallying their year-end comp.)

[Anonymous User]

But we didn't get spring or fall bonuses in 2020? And spring + fall is greater than last year's special bonuses. I don't really see how this is "double credit" at all. What ultimately matters is total comp, and they paid (or have committed to pay) us those special bonus amounts already. Also, reminder that we got paid one-off summer bonuses in 2018...paying something once doesn't bake it in as the standard comp format.

2020 they paid the special COVID bonus and in 2021 they announced early in the year that they would essentially be paying that amount in the fall AND would be paying spring bonuses on top of that. That's net benefit and I think it's kind of weird that anyone thinks we are going to be getting annual bonuses AND another special bonus payment. Annual bonuses might just be higher this year because of how absurd the year has been, but I feel pretty confident that law firm management generally views the special bonus portion of last year's bonuses as already paid out.

Did you seriously not view the spring/fall bonuses as firms re-committing to the special bonuses of 2020? You actually thought they would pay us those AND pay us another EoY special bonus on top?

[Anonymous User]

But we didn't get spring or fall bonuses in 2020? And spring + fall is greater than last year's special bonuses. I don't really see how this is "double credit" at all. Also reminder that we got paid one-off summer bonuses in 2018...paying something once doesn't make it in as the standard comp format. So 2020 they paid the special COVID bonus and in 2021 they announced early in the year that they would essentially be paying that amount in the fall AND would be paying spring bonuses on top of that. That's net benefit and I think it's kind of weird that anyone thinks were are going to be getting annual bonuses AND another special bonus payment. Annual bonuses might just be higher this year because of how absurd the year has been, but I feel pretty confident that law firm management generally views the special bonus portion of last year's bonuses as already paid.

Are you a V25 partner masquerading on a law school board? To be frank with you, I don't give a shit what else they paid in 2021. Those payments were for retention during the year and to reflect the pace of activity at the firm at the time. It's year-end now. My comparison for 2021 year-end is exactly what Cravath paid out in 2020 for year-end. My memory is short, just like their memory will be short if there's ever an economic contraction. Right now, firms are making gazillions of dollars and we're burnt out. I've watched dozens of colleagues walk. I'm not giving them credit for compensation before November. I just saw my firm's revenue figures and how much the value of equity will be going up, yet again, for 2021. They can baseline against the 2020 Cravath memo and then do better than that and if they can't there are firms that will.

[Anonymous User]

I mean you can think that all you want but total annual comp is the only way it makes any sort of sense to view all of these payments and there's absolutely no way they're viewing the special bonus from last year as part of the baseline for the discussion of annual bonus amounts. Make no mistake: they view the current annual bonus scale to be the same as it was in 2019. They will view e.g. $60k to a 3rd year as a raise on the bonus scale even though it's less than last year's annual bonus + special bonus.

Are people in here generally expecting annual bonus raises AND another special bonus payment equal to last year's ON TOP OF the previously announced spring/fall bonuses? Don't get me wrong I would love that, but I don't think it's realistic at all. There's a reason the fall bonus scale was identical to last year's special bonus scale.

[Anonymous User]

I mean you can think that all you want but total annual comp is the only way it makes any sort of sense to view all of these payments and there's absolutely no way they're viewing the special bonus from last year as part of the baseline for the discussion of annual bonus amounts. Make no mistake: they view the current annual bonus scale to be the same as it was in 2019. They will view e.g. $60k to a 3rd year as a raise on the bonus scale even though it's less than last year's annual bonus + special bonus.

You have no basis for saying this. I definitely have a basis for saying that there are many associates who if they're handed something year-end 2021 that's less than what Cravath and the like paid year-end 2020 are going to just walk, particularly in the face of egregious profits for partners. The sentiment is littered throughout this discussion this isn't just me.

Are people in here generally expecting annual bonus raises AND another special bonus payment equal to last year's ON TOP OF the previously announced spring/fall bonuses? Don't get me wrong I would love that, but I don't think it's realistic at all. There's a reason the fall bonus scale was identical to last year's special bonus scale.

Yes.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Do non-market firms (WLRK, elite boutiques) send out bonus memos on the same timetable as market BL firms? Do they always wait to see what market is first? Just curious.

Kinda off topic, but is Wachtell still doing 100% of base salary? Also, is that limited to their corporate department? I don’t believe their litigators are working the same amount as corporate lawyers.

Current WLRK associate — bonuses have been 100% since at least 2014, not limited by department.

Wow. Is the firm taking any laterals?

Ready to work 80 hours a week?

Already working 80 hours a week, although not every week.

[Anonymous User]

You have no basis for saying this. I definitely have a basis for saying that there are many associates who if they're handed something year-end 2021 that's less than what Cravath and the like paid year-end 2020 are going to just walk, particularly in the face of egregious profits for partners. The sentiment is littered throughout this discussion this isn't just me.

There's plenty of basis for this and you're nuts if you can't see that. Aside from the fact that law firm books are done annually and they will therefore tend to view comp on an annual basis, last year's special bonuses were created as fall bonuses, not part of end year bonuses. Some firms may have wrapped them into the YE bonus but the firms that actually started them didn't.

1: DPW paid the special bonuses out on September 30 last year.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/wow-dav ... bonuses/2/

2: DPW paid out the special bonuses on September 30 this year in exactly the same amount.

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/03/davis-p ... onus-2021/

[Anonymous User]

You have no basis for saying this. I definitely have a basis for saying that there are many associates who if they're handed something year-end 2021 that's less than what Cravath and the like paid year-end 2020 are going to just walk, particularly in the face of egregious profits for partners. The sentiment is littered throughout this discussion this isn't just me.

There's plenty of basis for this and you're nuts if you can't see that. Aside from the fact that law firm books are done annually and they will therefore tend to view comp on an annual basis, last year's special bonuses were created as fall bonuses, not part of end year bonuses. Some firms may have wrapped them into the YE bonus but the firms that actually started them didn't.

1: DPW paid the special bonuses out on September 30 last year.

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/wow-dav ... bonuses/2/

2: DPW paid out the special bonuses on September 30 this year in exactly the same amount.

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/03/davis-p ... onus-2021/

I'm just going to keep bickering with you to vent my frustration about no bonus news You're getting hung up on timing but the whole point of this was that the firms recognized that 2020 was an extraordinary year and that the standard EoY bonus scale that the industry has been stuck with for x years wasn't going to do it in the face of the profits firms were seeing + the burn out of associates. The exact same logic applies this year but with greater strength. Firms are making even more money; people are even more burnt out; attrition is worse than its ever been. The 2021 spring/fall bonus was a retention bonus for mid-year; it was different in kind than what DPW kicked off in 2020. To me and plenty of my peers when we've talked about this, that's how we view things. And I think the law firm that tries to get around this logic by claiming "well, we paid you in the fall already" is going to get burnt.

[Anonymous User]

I mean you can think that all you want but total annual comp is the only way it makes any sort of sense to view all of these payments and there's absolutely no way they're viewing the special bonus from last year as part of the baseline for the discussion of annual bonus amounts. Make no mistake: they view the current annual bonus scale to be the same as it was in 2019. They will view e.g. $60k to a 3rd year as a raise on the bonus scale even though it's less than last year's annual bonus + special bonus.

You have no basis for saying this. I definitely have a basis for saying that there are many associates who if they're handed something year-end 2021 that's less than what Cravath and the like paid year-end 2020 are going to just walk, particularly in the face of egregious profits for partners. The sentiment is littered throughout this discussion this isn't just me.

Are people in here generally expecting annual bonus raises AND another special bonus payment equal to last year's ON TOP OF the previously announced spring/fall bonuses? Don't get me wrong I would love that, but I don't think it's realistic at all. There's a reason the fall bonus scale was identical to last year's special bonus scale.

Yes.

This sounds like a partner. Or someone on the cusp of making partner. Good. Can you tell us your basis for saying that firms are going to pay less EOY? Something more concrete than annual compensation is higher? If not your theory ignores the morale-crushing reality that higher PPP with lower EOY amounts will result in unprecedented departures. Not exactly a retention-winning strategy… So, how do you account for people that will leave?

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who suggested the scale that is creating some heat as a 2020 EOY paycut (if adding special bonus onto base scale).

I don't think we should underestimate the inertia that a lot of the 2021 special bonuses (the Spring/Fall split or whatever you want to call it) have just been paid or are still being paid. Combine that with an increase to the usual base that I suggested, and I think firms might think they can get away with it: (A) we increased the base scale and (B) you just got, or are about to get, that extra payout for September/November/December on top of that.

I can't imagine that firms are planning to do mid-year or Spring+Fall+EOY bonuses forever. That might also explain the push to return to office to create a sense of normalcy and expectation that pay will increase every so often as always, not special bonuses scattered throughout for the rest of time.

This is coming from a burnt-out midlevel ready and willing to exit very quickly, and will always hold out hope for more money to ease the pain.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand the mindset of someone coming into this thread to argue for lower bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t think it’s that useful to look at only when bonuses are paid, but we should also look at when they are announced, because the time of the announcement affects associate retention too.

The special bonus history is like this, right?
1. Sept/Oct 2020 announcement for late 2020 payment,
2. March/April 2021 announcement for spring/fall 2021 payments.

Bonus (2) was retention focused since it strung along associates to this point on the calendar. There is pretty much no way that firms will pay last year’s normal market with no bump or additional special bonus and point at old comp as the reason why, because the market is just as hot if not hotter right not for associate retention.

It’s notable that for over a year now, we haven’t gone more than 4 months without either a special bonus announcement or special bonus payout. Both of those events promote retention. The only way that continues is it there is either a special bonus announcement or payout at year end (or in January, but year end certainly better serves the firm’s goals). It is a virtual guarantee that we will see one or both of those things.

Whoever is self-hating enough to think that a firm will say “Look at how much we paid in 2021; 4th years will love this 65k” is missing the big picture.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand the mindset of someone coming into this thread to argue for lower bonuses.

To be clear: I am not arguing for lower bonuses. I am arguing that law firm partners already believe they have paid us last year's special bonuses and will not consider it a pay cut to not pay us another round of special bonuses this year. If they do pay another round of special bonuses it will probably be as a way to "hide" the annual bonus raises in a vehicle they view as easier to take away in the future.

For the record, I do believe that annual bonuses will and should be higher than last year, but I wouldn't be that shocked if they're lower than annual bonus + COVID bonus, nor would I view that as a cut in pay.

(Also I'm out of big law entirely after this year with the possible exception of absolutely absurd retention bonuses)

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand the mindset of someone coming into this thread to argue for lower bonuses.

I don't know who you are directing this too, but in my defense I have consistently said on here that unless EOY bonuses are life-changing for me (e.g. $300,000+) I'm walking.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand the mindset of someone coming into this thread to argue for lower bonuses.

To be clear: I am not arguing for lower bonuses. I am arguing that law firm partners already believe they have paid us last year's special bonuses and will not consider it a pay cut to not pay us another round of special bonuses this year. If they do pay another round of special bonuses it will probably be as a way to "hide" the annual bonus raises in a vehicle they view as easier to take away in the future.

For the record, I do believe that annual bonuses will and should be higher than last year, but I wouldn't be that shocked if they're lower than annual bonus + COVID bonus, nor would I view that as a cut in pay.

(Also I'm out of big law entirely after this year with the possible exception of absolutely absurd retention bonuses)

Most of us will view it as a paycut.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who suggested the scale that is creating some heat as a 2020 EOY paycut (if adding special bonus onto base scale).

I don't think we should underestimate the inertia that a lot of the 2021 special bonuses (the Spring/Fall split or whatever you want to call it) have just been paid or are still being paid. Combine that with an increase to the usual base that I suggested, and I think firms might think they can get away with it: (A) we increased the base scale and (B) you just got, or are about to get, that extra payout for September/November/December on top of that.

I can't imagine that firms are planning to do mid-year or Spring+Fall+EOY bonuses forever. That might also explain the push to return to office to create a sense of normalcy and expectation that pay will increase every so often as always, not special bonuses scattered throughout for the rest of time.

This is coming from a burnt-out midlevel ready and willing to exit very quickly, and will always hold out hope for more money to ease the pain.

Quite honestly, I expect a higher bonus just in order to endure being compelled to go back to the office. That is absolutely miserable and I’ll need money not to bail and go somewhere that is fully remote.

[Anonymous User]

Two things can be true at once: (1) associates can be on the verge of walking lest firms match (or raise?) the bonus/special bonus scale from last year and (2) the partners can be utterly blind to this fact (likely blinded by the money they are raking in). I don't think anybody here disagrees that people will leave, and I don't think anybody here wants lower bonuses than last year. That doesn't mean it's going to happen, no matter how much it should.

Who are we kidding thinking that posts on TLS is going to make a splash on the Cravath/DPW/Milbank partnerships? Just look at how long it too for the NYC to $200k thread predictions to come to fruition.

But make no mistake partners - you'll lose many of your beloved profit machines if you don't match or raise last year's EOY and special bonuses. An few tens of thousands per associate now is well worth the $1.5m or more they'll pull in for you next year. The only way to stop bleeding associates to in house roles or even to "nothing lined up just getting out while I have my sanity/dignity" is to beat our expectations.

[Pulsar]

All kinds of anon abuse in this thread, particularly by the idiot/troll who thinks September bonus payments somehow don’t count/that the huge scale previously discussed would be a pay cut

I hope/believe comp should be higher this year as compared to last. But law firms are definitely going to view it as overall comp for the year, not on whether a payment was made in September or a few months later.

[Anonymous User]

someone needs to make an announcement so we can stop suffering through the inane and insane bickering ITT

[Anonymous User]

Do we think it’s going to be a V10 or non-V10 that sets the bar? My money is on non-V10 and I hope they get quality recruiting classes for years to come.

[Anonymous User]

LOL people actually threatening partners here thinking they would even blink