Biglawyers. Are any of you happy? Was this job better than others you've had? Forum

[Anonymous User]

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[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The vast majority of people at my t14 clearly got some form of $$$ from their family. People hide it and stuff but it's pretty obvious when maximum loans would clearly not be enough to support their rents and lifestyles

Everyone I knew well enough to talk finances were basically covered by their parents, though maybe some have a "loan" from their parents, whatever that means. Skeptical a parent is gonna garnish wages or prevent them from buying a house etc

Yeah, some of my close friends from law school lie to people they don't know as well about it either - I guess they don't want to "brag" about it or come off as rude. One of my buddies had a full ride + COL paid by parents, but pretended to have loans when people around him were discussing them...if they knew anything about him, they'd realize he didn't have any loans (his parents have like 5 houses, a boat, a shitload of cash).

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The vast majority of people at my t14 clearly got some form of $$$ from their family. People hide it and stuff but it's pretty obvious when maximum loans would clearly not be enough to support their rents and lifestyles

Everyone I knew well enough to talk finances were basically covered by their parents, though maybe some have a "loan" from their parents, whatever that means. Skeptical a parent is gonna garnish wages or prevent them from buying a house etc

I knew some people doing FULL LOAN and then still getting some side money from parents. Tehy are still ass fucked.

But I knew a lot of people getting serious money from mom and dad.

Perhaps this is a naive reaction (I was neither born nor raised in the United States), but it is astonishing to me that parents nearing retirement age have a quarter of a million dollars of liquid cash to spend on a child's graduate school, after having presumably paid for the child's private high school and undergrad as well, and after having saved for their own retirement.

I must also question the level of self-respect of any adult in their mid-20s who takes this kind of money from their parents instead of just retaking the LSAT.

A lot of the parents of T-14 students have net worth (and even possibly liquid) more than 5-10 million dollars. T-14s are full of "wealthy" kids. One of my roommates in law school was the child of two biglaw partners; their net worth is probably more than 20 million. One of my other friends' dad used to make 7 million a year at a Fortune 500 company; probably net worth 50 million or more. And not all of them go to private school. My friends who went to Harvard, etc. for undergrad, some went to public school even though they had rich parents. Paying for law school is like paying for coffee for these parents.

A lot of them are down to earth though, so you wouldn't know unless you were close enough to them.

[ughbugchugplug]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

[Desert Fox]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

I've lived on 25k a year. and I've on biglaw with 200k. I'd take teh former.

[ughbugchugplug]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

I've lived on 25k a year. and I've on biglaw with 200k. I'd take teh former.

I'm sure there are billionaires who came from nothing who complain about the position they're in. Everyone's got it hard once they've forgotten the value of security and wealth

[jbagelboy]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

I've lived on 25k a year. and I've on biglaw with 200k. I'd take teh former.

I'm sure there are billionaires who came from nothing who complain about the position they're in. Everyone's got it hard once they've forgotten the value of security and wealth

Not a fair comparison. This isn't an embarassment of riches situation; biglaw salaries go mostly toward debt payments until you are shitcanned by year 5. And what little dispensable income remains, you have to commit to basic necessities in high COL locations or you don't have the time and leisure to enjoy

[Anonymous User]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

This is very true. I'm four months into big law and if you like legal work and your perspective is "I'm getting paid a ton of $ so as a result I have to be on call all the time" you will have a much more grounded perspective. I feel fortunate to have this job and will stay at my firm as long as they let me.

[Tls2016]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

This is very true. I'm four months into big law and if you like legal work and your perspective is "I'm getting paid a ton of $ so as a result I have to be on call all the time" you will have a much more grounded perspective. I feel fortunate to have this job and will stay at my firm as long as they let me.

I don't think you understand a single thing in this thread.
I also don't think either of you have been in biglaw very long.

If all you care about is money, you will sustain yourself for a while in biglaw until you burn out. But, if all you care about is money, it is smarter to not waste 3 years of your life in law school and much smarter not to go deeply in debt for this career. Law school is expensive, grades are unpredictable, getting an offer is unsure. The work is demanding, you don't get trained, and only the rarest person is going to make partner.

Most of the 0L people are just chasing the salary combined with no clue as to what being a lawyer means.
For me, the point of the thread is so 0Ls who see the $160,000 understand what they are getting into when they borrow $200,000 (or more) for a shot at biglaw.

Also, I have found that many people can't cope with biglaw physically because they aren't high energy enough, aren't workaholic enough or mostly because they need regular sleep to function. The physical aspect can't be fixed by salary. People minimize that.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

This is very true. I'm four months into big law and if you like legal work and your perspective is "I'm getting paid a ton of $ so as a result I have to be on call all the time" you will have a much more grounded perspective. I feel fortunate to have this job and will stay at my firm as long as they let me.

I don't think you understand a single thing in this thread.
I also don't think either of you have been in biglaw very long.

If all you care about is money, you will sustain yourself for a while in biglaw until you burn out. But, if all you care about is money, it is smarter to not waste 3 years of your life in law school and much smarter not to go deeply in debt for this career. Law school is expensive, grades are unpredictable, getting an offer is unsure. The work is demanding, you don't get trained, and only the rarest person is going to make partner.

Most of the 0L people are just chasing the salary combined with no clue as to what being a lawyer means.
For me, the point of the thread is so 0Ls who see the $160,000 understand what they are getting into when they borrow $200,000 (or more) for a shot at biglaw.

Also, I have found that many people can't cope with biglaw physically because they aren't high energy enough, aren't workaholic enough or mostly because they need regular sleep to function. The physical aspect can't be fixed by salary. People minimize that.

"Ughbug" hasn't even started biglaw yet. The other one is a "first year" veteran of the biglaw industry (4 whole months).

No offense to ugh, but I don't even know what it means to "work" 50-60 hours a week in sales. Were you sitting there doing nothing or actually working? Are you just counting office time or what? Because billables don't mean time in the office (obviously).

TEACHERS get paid more than 18-30k a year; plus they don't have to work for 3 months out of the year (if not 4 months including winter break). The average nurse gets paid 70k in the United States and isn't working 50-60 hours a week. You're an idiot if you choose to work in sales making 18-30k a year while "working" 50-60 hours a week and you aren't ESL/ an immigrant. I could understand why immigrants have to take jobs working long hours with little pay; but not why a US born citizen who is fluent in English would. Waiters probably make more than 18k a year on average.

So no, I have no sympathy for people who aren't ESL/immigrants who choose to "work" 50-60 hours a week making less than waiters do. You probably majored in English or some useless, bullshit degree (and therefore barely worked in college). And you clearly don't make good choices with your life - first "working" 50-60 hours a week making less money than waiters make, and now probably taking out loans for biglaw.

[Tls2016]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

This is very true. I'm four months into big law and if you like legal work and your perspective is "I'm getting paid a ton of $ so as a result I have to be on call all the time" you will have a much more grounded perspective. I feel fortunate to have this job and will stay at my firm as long as they let me.

I don't think you understand a single thing in this thread.
I also don't think either of you have been in biglaw very long.

If all you care about is money, you will sustain yourself for a while in biglaw until you burn out. But, if all you care about is money, it is smarter to not waste 3 years of your life in law school and much smarter not to go deeply in debt for this career. Law school is expensive, grades are unpredictable, getting an offer is unsure. The work is demanding, you don't get trained, and only the rarest person is going to make partner.

Most of the 0L people are just chasing the salary combined with no clue as to what being a lawyer means.
For me, the point of the thread is so 0Ls who see the $160,000 understand what they are getting into when they borrow $200,000 (or more) for a shot at biglaw.

Also, I have found that many people can't cope with biglaw physically because they aren't high energy enough, aren't workaholic enough or mostly because they need regular sleep to function. The physical aspect can't be fixed by salary. People minimize that.

"Ughbug" hasn't even started biglaw yet. The other one is a "first year" veteran of the biglaw industry (4 whole months).

No offense to ugh, but I don't even know what it means to "work" 50-60 hours a week in sales. Were you sitting there doing nothing or actually working? Are you just counting office time or what? Because billables don't mean time in the office (obviously).

TEACHERS get paid more than 18-30k a year; plus they don't have to work for 3 months out of the year (if not 4 months including winter break). The average nurse gets paid 70k in the United States and isn't working 50-60 hours a week. You're an idiot if you choose to work in sales making 18-30k a year while "working" 50-60 hours a week and you aren't ESL/ an immigrant. I could understand why immigrants have to take jobs working long hours with little pay; but not why a US born citizen who is fluent in English would. Waiters probably make more than 18k a year on average.

So no, I have no sympathy for people who aren't ESL/immigrants who choose to "work" 50-60 hours a week making less than waiters do. You probably majored in English or some useless, bullshit degree (and therefore barely worked in college). And you clearly don't make good choices with your life though - first "working" 50-60 hours a week making less money than waiters make, and now probably taking out loans for biglaw.

Yeah, I thought that it didn't sound like a biglaw lawyer. The whole " your boss is a meanie-pants" thing didn't sound like something anyone who is in big law would write.

[homestyle28]

The point we can all agree on is the fact that other jobs treat people like shit, completely justifies biglaws general shitiness.

[El Pollito]

2 nights in a row of work dreams is not cool

[PMan99]

This is perhaps the most privileged, whiny, self-indulgent, entitled, any other synonym with privileged, thread I've ever had the misfortune to read. I was a car salesman after undergrad. I made 18-30k in NJ working 50-60 hours a week. The corporation I worked for actively reduced our pay to increase corporate profit. If any associate in this thread had even the vaguest idea of what it's like to be an unskilled worker, or anyone who isn't involved in the financial industry, they would throw up at the sight of the absurd level of class-blindness every person posting here has. I'll be making more at my firm than the manager of my manager did at the peak of his career in car sales. Please people, develop some perspective. Aw man! you're bored at work! aw man! you work weekends! aw man! your boss is a meanie-pants with megalomania! you poor, poor rich people!

And the subsistence farmers from South Sudan with no working water, no healthcare, and a war ravaged country would love to have your 18-30k. What is your point.

[Anonymous User]

Thought the people engaging in this off-topic topic might be interested in reading the below, which is a letter that is floating around wall street from an anonymous author.

We are Wall Street. It's our job to make money. Whether it's a commodity, stock, bond, or some hypothetical piece of fake paper, it doesn't matter. We would trade baseball cards if it were profitable. I didn't hear America complaining when the market was roaring to 14,000 and everyone's 401k doubled every 3 years. Just like gambling, its not a problem until you lose. I've never heard of anyone going to Gamblers Anonymous because they won too much in Vegas.

Well now the market crapped out, & even though it has come back somewhat, the government and the average Joes are still looking for a scapegoat. God knows there has to be one for everything. Well, here we are.

Go ahead and continue to take us down, but you're only going to hurt yourselves. What's going to happen when we can't find jobs on the Street anymore? Guess what: We're going to take yours. We get up at 5am & work till 10pm or later. We're used to not getting up to pee when we have a position. We don't take an hour or more for a lunch break. We don't demand a union. We don't retire at 50 with a pension. We eat what we kill, and when the only thing left to eat is on your dinner plates, we'll eat that.

For years teachers and other unionized labor have had us fooled. We were too busy working to notice. Do you really think that we are incapable of teaching 3rd graders and doing landscaping? We're going to take your cushy jobs with tenure and 4 months off a year and whine just like you that we are so-o-o-o underpaid for building the youth of America. Say goodbye to your overtime and double time and a half. I'll be hitting grounders to the high school baseball team for $5k extra a summer, thank you very much.

So now that we're going to be making $85k a year without upside, Joe Mainstreet is going to have his revenge, right? Wrong! Guess what: we're going to stop buying the new 80k car, we aren't going to leave the 35 percent tip at our business dinners anymore. No more free rides on our backs. We're going to landscape our own back yards, wash our cars with a garden hose in our driveways. Our money was your money. You spent it. When our money dries up, so does yours.

The difference is, you lived off of it, we rejoiced in it. The Obama administration and the Democratic National Committee might get their way and knock us off the top of the pyramid, but it's really going to hurt like hell for them when our fat a**es land directly on the middle class of America and knock them to the bottom.

We aren't dinosaurs. We are smarter and more vicious than that, and we are going to survive. The question is, now that Obama & his administration are making Joe Mainstreet our food supply...will he? and will they?

http://ftalphaville.ft.com//2010/04/30/ ... dinosaurs/

[Danger Zone]

What a douche

[PMan99]

What a douche

CR sounds like insecure bulge bracket intern from lower Ivy

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

Thought the people engaging in this off-topic topic might be interested in reading the below, which is a letter that is floating around wall street from an anonymous author.

We are Wall Street. It's our job to make money. Whether it's a commodity, stock, bond, or some hypothetical piece of fake paper, it doesn't matter. We would trade baseball cards if it were profitable. I didn't hear America complaining when the market was roaring to 14,000 and everyone's 401k doubled every 3 years. Just like gambling, its not a problem until you lose. I've never heard of anyone going to Gamblers Anonymous because they won too much in Vegas.

Well now the market crapped out, & even though it has come back somewhat, the government and the average Joes are still looking for a scapegoat. God knows there has to be one for everything. Well, here we are.

Go ahead and continue to take us down, but you're only going to hurt yourselves. What's going to happen when we can't find jobs on the Street anymore? Guess what: We're going to take yours. We get up at 5am & work till 10pm or later. We're used to not getting up to pee when we have a position. We don't take an hour or more for a lunch break. We don't demand a union. We don't retire at 50 with a pension. We eat what we kill, and when the only thing left to eat is on your dinner plates, we'll eat that.

For years teachers and other unionized labor have had us fooled. We were too busy working to notice. Do you really think that we are incapable of teaching 3rd graders and doing landscaping? We're going to take your cushy jobs with tenure and 4 months off a year and whine just like you that we are so-o-o-o underpaid for building the youth of America. Say goodbye to your overtime and double time and a half. I'll be hitting grounders to the high school baseball team for $5k extra a summer, thank you very much.

So now that we're going to be making $85k a year without upside, Joe Mainstreet is going to have his revenge, right? Wrong! Guess what: we're going to stop buying the new 80k car, we aren't going to leave the 35 percent tip at our business dinners anymore. No more free rides on our backs. We're going to landscape our own back yards, wash our cars with a garden hose in our driveways. Our money was your money. You spent it. When our money dries up, so does yours.

The difference is, you lived off of it, we rejoiced in it. The Obama administration and the Democratic National Committee might get their way and knock us off the top of the pyramid, but it's really going to hurt like hell for them when our fat a**es land directly on the middle class of America and knock them to the bottom.

We aren't dinosaurs. We are smarter and more vicious than that, and we are going to survive. The question is, now that Obama & his administration are making Joe Mainstreet our food supply...will he? and will they?

http://ftalphaville.ft.com//2010/04/30/ ... dinosaurs/

Saw this drivel a long time ago. Definitely written by an overworked, douchey first-year analyst who has no idea what he is talking about.

There's a big difference from saying biglaw is underpaid compared to the hours worked, stress, debt-incurred orcomp available at peer " prestigious" jobs (at least in NYC), and this line of thought (if you call that thought).

Even I regularly tell people if you've tried to find a good job for a year or two out of school and can't, then look into law school, but it doesn't change the fact that biglaw sucks and there are way better options for many people to try first.

[Abbie Doobie]

For years teachers and other unionized labor have had us fooled. We were too busy working to notice. Do you really think that we are incapable of teaching 3rd graders and doing landscaping?

based on my interactions with most white collar workers i actually believe this to be true

[Anonymous User]

2 nights in a row of work dreams is not cool

Try every single night.

[star fox]

That guy seems pretty coked up.

[zot1]

The point we can all agree on is the fact that other jobs treat people like shit, completely justifies biglaws general shitiness.

Uh not true.

[krads153]

What a douche

CR sounds like insecure bulge bracket intern from lower Ivy

He sounds like a douche, but I think people fail to realize that taxing Wall Street pushes costs down to consumers.

[JCougar]

I thought I-bankers didn't get into work until like 10am.

I admit, though, that I don't know much about that industry.

[JCougar]

What a douche

CR sounds like insecure bulge bracket intern from lower Ivy

He sounds like a douche, but I think people fail to realize that taxing Wall Street pushes costs down to consumers. That's Econ 101.

It also pushes down salaries/wages to consumers with money that would otherwise likely be stashed away in some tax haven somewhere.