NU OCI 2013/The Great Jerb Hunt Forum

[bk1]

1) If you aren't lying you aren't trying hard enough

Credited. Bullshit your location interests to places you are looking at as a backup and (if you are targeting more than 2 markets, which I generally do not advise) never admit to targeting more than 2 markets.

[echooo23]

Do firms get to see our ranking of office locations? Basically, if I put SF, Chi, NY, SD as my ranks, will they see them all (and think, holy shit, wishy washy)?

[D-hops]

Anon OP here, thanks for all the advice everyone, will throw another V50 NY firm into that top-15 mix and hope to pick up one or two of DPW/Skadden/SullCrom/etc. between 15 and 20. I was planning on telling Kirkland/Sidley that I'm bidding Chicago with NY as a backup (which is true anyways, I'd go to Kirkland/Sidley ahead of the NY firms) and then segue into how Chicago is the greatest city ever created and etc.

You probably won't have a good shot with SullCrom, they are notoriously stingy about grades, DPW or Skadden gives you a much better shot.

[Anonymous User]

Making myself progressively more confused...any help greatly appreciated.

3.67, LR, transactional, would stay in Chicago for Kirkland/Sidley otherwise going NYC.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Linklaters
3. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett
4. Proskauer Rose
5. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
6. Milbank Tweed
7. Paul Weiss
8. White & Case
9. Cadwalader
10. Cahill Gordon
11. Fried Frank
12. Davis Polk
13. Jones Day
14. Cleary Gottlieb
15. Weil Gotshal

I tried to incorporate some of DF's (very helpful) methodology, but have a couple questions. I think I have 2 serious reaches in my top-10 (Kirkland/Sidley), 2 kind-of reaches (STB, Paul Weiss), and then the rest are pretty much in range, is that going more aggressively than is advisable? And also curious how long DPW, Cleary Gottlieb, and Weil should be expected to last? I saw a few pages ago that Weil dropped to 17 last year, they have 60 slots, and with the bad layoff news, is it realistic to expect to get them at 15?

What about Latham Chicago?<-- EDIT, ignore me, misread that you wanted to stay in Chicago.

[Anonymous User]

Anon OP here, thanks for all the advice everyone, will throw another V50 NY firm into that top-15 mix and hope to pick up one or two of DPW/Skadden/SullCrom/etc. between 15 and 20. I was planning on telling Kirkland/Sidley that I'm bidding Chicago with NY as a backup (which is true anyways, I'd go to Kirkland/Sidley ahead of the NY firms) and then segue into how Chicago is the greatest city ever created and etc.

You probably won't have a good shot with SullCrom, they are notoriously stingy about grades, DPW or Skadden gives you a much better shot.

Will do, thanks again.

[Anonymous User]

First bidlist attempt after staring at Excel for too long. T25 transfer, 3.5X GPA (~20% at old school). Only ties are to Chicago. I strongly prefer transactional.

Bid - Firm - Office - SA Class

1. Jones Day [Chicago] - 11
2. Baker & McKenzie [Chicago] - 5
3. DLA Piper [Chicago] - 6
4. K&L Gates [Chicago] - 9
5. Vedder Price [Chicago] - 7
6. Katten Muchin Rosenman [Chicago] - 17
7. Skadden Arps [Chicago] - 22
8. Mayer Brown [Chicago] - 27
9. goldberg kohn [Chicago] - 6
10. Latham & Watkins [Chicago] - 13
11. Sidley Austin [Chicago] - 42
12. Kirkland & Ellis [Chicago] - 37
13. Kirkland & Ellis [New York] - 51
14. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy [New York] - 69
15. Weil, Gotshal & Manges [New York] - 53
16. McDermott Will & Emery [Chicago] - 12
17. Ropes & Gray [New York] - 28
18. Sidley Austin [New York] - 26
19. Kaye Scholer [New York] - 21
20. Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson [New York] - 20
21. Shearman & Sterling [New York] - 40
22. White & Case [New York] - 29
23. Allen & Overy [New York] - 20
24. Dechert [New York] - 17
25. Proskauer Rose [New York] - 17

[homestyle28]

First bidlist attempt after staring at Excel for too long. T25 transfer, 3.5X GPA (~20% at old school). Only ties are to Chicago. I strongly prefer transactional.

Bid - Firm - Office - SA Class

1. Jones Day [Chicago] - 11
2. Baker & McKenzie [Chicago] - 5
3. DLA Piper [Chicago] - 6
4. K&L Gates [Chicago] - 9
5. Vedder Price [Chicago] - 7
6. Katten Muchin Rosenman [Chicago] - 17
7. Skadden Arps [Chicago] - 22
8. Mayer Brown [Chicago] - 27
9. Goldberg Kohn [Chicago] - 6
10. Latham & Watkins [Chicago] - 13
11. Sidley Austin [Chicago] - 42
12. Kirkland & Ellis [Chicago] - 37
13. Kirkland & Ellis [New York] - 51
14. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy [New York] - 69
15. Weil, Gotshal & Manges [New York] - 53
16. McDermott Will & Emery [Chicago] - 12
17. Ropes & Gray [New York] - 28
18. Sidley Austin [New York] - 26
19. Kaye Scholer [New York] - 21
20. Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson [New York] - 20
21. Shearman & Sterling [New York] - 40
22. White & Case [New York] - 29
23. Allen & Overy [New York] - 20
24. Dechert [New York] - 17
25. Proskauer Rose [New York] - 17

I think Mayer and Katten in Chicago should be higher, I might put some NY firms at the tail end of your top 10. Sidley and K&E are wasted bids where you have them. Either cut them completely or bump them significantly.

[Anonymous User]

First bid list try, not really sure what I'm doing or how aggressively to bid.

T25 transfer, ~6%. Would strongly prefer Chicago to anywhere else, but would also very much prefer having a job to not. Only ties to Chicago are undergrad (also NU). Strongly leaning towards litigation.

Also, I got the following interviews through CCBA and will not be bidding them here: Winston & Strawn, Jones Day, Mayer Brown, Foley & Lardner, Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, Schiff Hardin, Vedder Price, and Shefsky & Froelich all in Chicago. I also got a Latham screener through a resume collect at my old school.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
3. Skadden (Chicago)
4. Jenner & Block (Chicago)
5. Katten Munchin (Chicago)
6. Ropes & Grey (Chicago)
7. Chapman & Cutler (Chicago)
8. Paul Hastings (Chicago)
9. Reed Smith (Chicago)
10. Baker & McKenzie (Chicago)
11. K & L Gates (Chicago)
12. Davis Polk & Wardwell (NY)
13. Drinker Biddle & Reath (Chicago)
14. McDermott Will & Emery (Chicago)
15. Dentons (Chicago)
16. DLA Piper (Chicago)
17. Cadwalader (NY)
18. Bryan Cave (Chicago)
19. Perkins Coie (Chicago)
20. Fried Frank (NY)

Do I have enough NY firms? Do I need to bid any firms higher?

[Anonymous User]

Okay, bidding closes next Tuesday, Aug 30th. What's the timeline for results (tentative & final)? Embarrassing (that's why anon), but I'm so wasted on these spreadsheets I can't see straight enough to find the instruction sheet. Also, how are their release dates generally on time?

[Samara]

Okay, bidding closes next Tuesday, Aug 30th. What's the timeline for results (tentative & final)? Embarrassing (that's why anon), but I'm so wasted on these spreadsheets I can't see straight enough to find the instruction sheet. Also, how are their release dates generally on time?

You fixed didding, but forgot to fix August to July. At least it's anonymous.

Looks like bids get released Aug 2 at noon.

[Anonymous User]

Okay, bidding closes next Tuesday, Aug 30th. What's the timeline for results (tentative & final)? Embarrassing (that's why anon), but I'm so wasted on these spreadsheets I can't see straight enough to find the instruction sheet. Also, how are their release dates generally on time?

You fixed didding, but forgot to fix August to July. At least it's anonymous.

Looks like bids get released Aug 2 at noon.

Told you I was a damned mess. Can't think or even even spell (so glad at least my cover letter is done). Thanks.

[D-hops]

First bid list try, not really sure what I'm doing or how aggressively to bid.

T25 transfer, ~6%. Would strongly prefer Chicago to anywhere else, but would also very much prefer having a job to not. Only ties to Chicago are undergrad (also NU). Strongly leaning towards litigation.

Also, I got the following interviews through CCBA and will not be bidding them here: Winston & Strawn, Jones Day, Mayer Brown, Foley & Lardner, Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, Schiff Hardin, Vedder Price, and Shefsky & Froelich all in Chicago. I also got a Latham screener through a resume collect at my old school.

1. Sidley Austin (Chicago)
2. Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
3. Skadden (Chicago)
4. Jenner & Block (Chicago)
5. Katten Munchin (Chicago)
6. Ropes & Grey (Chicago)
7. Chapman & Cutler (Chicago)
8. Paul Hastings (Chicago)
9. Reed Smith (Chicago)
10. Baker & McKenzie (Chicago)
11. K & L Gates (Chicago)
12. Davis Polk & Wardwell (NY)
13. Drinker Biddle & Reath (Chicago)
14. McDermott Will & Emery (Chicago)
15. Dentons (Chicago)
16. DLA Piper (Chicago)
17. Cadwalader (NY)
18. Bryan Cave (Chicago)
19. Perkins Coie (Chicago)
20. Fried Frank (NY)

Do I have enough NY firms? Do I need to bid any firms higher?

If you want to split between NYC and Chicago you need to have more firms, your NY firms seem kind of randomly selected. But, with 8 CCBA interviews, you'll probably add another 12-15 more from OCI, that gets you 20-25 Chicago screeners. If you add more NY firms and split them a little more in your top 20, you can get more like 25-30 screeners.

Also, I don't think Chapman, Ropes, or Paul Hastings would be the best for you if you really prefer litigation because those firms are more corporate or real estate in Chicago. Not that they don't have litigation (except for Chapman which I don't think does) but those groups are much smaller and less likely to be hiring then the others.

[Anonymous User]

How does this look? I really don't know what I'm doing. I've mass mailed a little and I'm doing some job fairs in a few secondary markets. Thank you for the help.

3.3 URM. NY only (is this a good strategy?).

1. Cahill Gordon
2. Fried, Frank
3. Kaye Scholer
4. Chadbourne & Park
5. Cadwalader
6. Milbank Tweed
7. Dechert
8. Linklaters
9. Allen & Overy
10. Shearman & Sterling
11. Seward & Kissel
12. Freshfields
13. Morrison Foerster
14. Strook & Strook
15. clifford chance
16. Wilkie Farr
17. Weil
18. Gunderson Dettmer
19. Mayer Brown
20. Proskauer Rose

[bk1]

I've mass mailed a little and I'm doing some job fairs in a few secondary markets. Thank you for the help.

3.3 URM. NY only (is this a good strategy?)

Yes. Except you should mass mail more than just a little. Can't give any advice on your bidlist.

[Bumi]

12. Kirkland & Ellis [Chicago] - 37

Sidley and K&E are wasted bids where you have them. Either cut them completely or bump them significantly.

Agree on Sidley, but I got Kirkland Chicago at 12 last year. Does Kirkland have fewer interview slots this year?

[D-hops]

12. Kirkland & Ellis [Chicago] - 37

Sidley and K&E are wasted bids where you have them. Either cut them completely or bump them significantly.

Agree on Sidley, but I got Kirkland Chicago at 12 last year. Does Kirkland have fewer interview slots this year?

I imagine they have a normal amount of interviews (i.e., 60) versus the bajillion they had last year. That was a mix up that the career services office had to correct. I wouldn't bid them any later than 5 with a normal interview schedule, and even there you might miss out (Sidley went 2 or 3 my year, Kirkland maybe one or two spots after).

[splitsplat]

I've mass mailed a little and I'm doing some job fairs in a few secondary markets. Thank you for the help.

3.3 URM. NY only (is this a good strategy?)

Yes. Except you should mass mail more than just a little. Can't give any advice on your bidlist.

I think MOFO is out of reach with a 3.3, even if URM...

[bk1]

I've mass mailed a little and I'm doing some job fairs in a few secondary markets. Thank you for the help.

3.3 URM. NY only (is this a good strategy?)

Yes. Except you should mass mail more than just a little. Can't give any advice on your bidlist.

I think MOFO is out of reach with a 3.3, even if URM...

I don't think URM should be factored into bidding.

[lgleye]

.

[bk1]

Depends on too many variables to even be a useful answer.

[IAFG]

Question for past-OCI’ers. From past threads, I’m reading that the time interval between screening and a CB (or ding) can be anywhere from a couple hours to 3 weeks, depending on the market.
However, not much data on intervals between CB’s and an offer (or ding).
I figure that it varies from market to market, but do any of you upperclassmen recall the interval in Chi, NYC, Boston, or DC? (I’m assuming dings come fast). Thanks.

I am going to give you a piece of advice that I hope everyone ITT takes to heart.

If you don't have an offer yet, you should be hustling. Not watching for the phone to ring, not imagining what it would be like to work at the firm where you've had a CB, not waiting to see what shakes out of CCBA/OCI/whatever. The time interval in which you expect to hear back should be the furthest thing from your mind.

[Bumi]

If you don't have an offer yet, you should be hustling. Not watching for the phone to ring, not imagining what it would be like to work at the firm where you've had a CB, not waiting to see what shakes out of CCBA/OCI/whatever. The time interval in which you expect to hear back should be the furthest thing from your mind.

You gave this advice last year. It was good advice. Everyone, take this advice. Do not have a "if I don't get X I'll try for Y" plan. That is a bad plan. Try for X and Y now, then keep thinking of more things to apply to, and apply to them, until you have an offer.

[terriers]

By "hustling", I assume you just mean massmailing like a mf'er?

[IAFG]

By "hustling", I assume you just mean massmailing like a mf'er?

That's part of it. Emailing alums. Learning about the practice areas you're pitching yourself for, and making sure you ACTUALLY understand what the firm does in that practice area. Applying for externships for next year that you can sell.

[terriers]

By "hustling", I assume you just mean massmailing like a mf'er?

That's part of it. Emailing alums. Learning about the practice areas you're pitching yourself for, and making sure you ACTUALLY understand what the firm does in that practice area. Applying for externships for next year that you can sell.

Re practice areas: how much detail do we generally need for screeners? My impression was that screeners were more about "is this person cool and not a serial killer, will they fit at the firm and can I put them in a room with a client?" rather than getting into the nitty-gritty of why someone wants to do M&A as opposed to bankruptcy. Obviously you'd want to know a firm's signature strengths and be able to talk cogently about them and how you fit, I guess one of my struggles is how do I answer the "why IP lit?" or "why M&A?" or "why securities?" question because I don't have any experience in most of those fields. Obviously you have to have a good answer for "why transactional?" or "why lit?" question. But how much do we need beyond that?