The Vale of Tears (3L Job Hunting) (No advice for 0/1/2Ls) Forum

[nevdash]

I'd gladly take top 30% + LR write on than top 15% + Top secondary journal just based on OCI results from the past 2 years. If you read around TLS you'll see that there are routinely people from the non T20's who are around top 10-20% and are jobless.

Really? Maybe we both have the "grass is greener" mentality, but I'm also at a T30 and was top 30% + LR write-on after 1L, and I struck out at OCI. I also saw a ton of top 10-15% kids on secondary journals (or even with no journal at all) get biglaw, so I feel like I would have gladly taken top 15% + secondary.

[snowpeach06]

I feel like passion for a particular subject and experience in that area can overcome not being on law review. You just need to be dedicated, build up your resume and go the extra mile - not give up when jobs don't pan out. If you are persistent enough things will work out. No jobs are a "lock," but I don't see why people are so afraid of *gasp* sending out application after application, and going on interview after interview until you eventually land something. If you don't give up, you won't wind up working at Starbucks (in the long run... if its required for a few months, so be it). Its the people who think "I lost out at OCI and the couple jobs I applied to thereafter, fuck it, I'm going to live the rest of my life in poverty" that lead poor miserable lives. I've never been an optimistic person, but, I can never accept just giving up. In my experiences, I've lost out on things I thought I really wanted. Sometimes I look bad and I'm sad about that, and wish I could have done it, but, other things have always popped up, and sometimes they wind up being even better than what I thought I wanted.

All of this is to say, its the holidays, I've been watching a lot of sappy movies, and it seems like anything is possible. Just be happy and hopeful. It's depressing to read all the exaggerated doom and gloom on TLS. Gotta make lemonade out of lemons or whatever the saying is.

[nevdash]

Agreed that a negative attitude doesn't do any good, but it's pretty hard to not be bitter when you're constantly interviewed by shitboomer partners who graduated from TTTs with no honors and then ask you questions like "is this job really something that you want" before sending a generic ding a week later. Hey buddy, I actually put in work and did somewhat well in school while you fell into a cushy job solely because your generation was lucky. Which one of us acted more like we wanted this job?

[Sm Firm Hiring P]

Unless I misunderstood your post you were speaking of people in schools ranked 21-100 and not in the top 5% of the class. Going on the assumption that that is correct, it is my experience that those people are far from safe to find any job, let alone a well paid one (I am one of those people currently ). My experience has been that there are the LR kids, and the rest of us, no matter the grades. If you didn't make LR, it gets difficult to get something out of OCI as the lack of firms makes it easy for them to swarm the LR kids. It almost feels like LR matters much more than grades, at least at my school. I'd gladly take top 30% + LR write on than top 15% + Top secondary journal just based on OCI results from the past 2 years. If you read around TLS you'll see that there are routinely people from the non T20's who are around top 10-20% and are jobless. I'm not saying all hope is lost, but your post made it seem like the small law or corporate jobs are a virtual lock, which in my experience they are not.

I agree that law journals help but not always does it have to be LR. Though, we are not a biglaw firm. We look for LR or a significant role with a secondary journal with top 20% credentials (top 33% for the T20 in our area). We are really targeting the 5%-20% of T2s which is the normal hire for us. We generally wait until December to hire our summers, after the big firms are finished with OCI. Law journals are important to us not so much for the distinction but for writing skill advancement as well as that survival with that tedous routine generally equates to a better detail person. But there are other things that matter to us since we get many that fit that criteria. Unique cover letter, business major or minor undergraduate degree, social experiences during college, active in associations/societies in law school and law firm summer experience to name a few. We have two 3Ls who will start with us in May within that criteria. I did note from their interviews and minor mistakes in interviewing that they had only a small handful of firm interviews which is seems to be the norm the last few years given the market (quite different several years ago) which likely proves your point some. I am very sympathetic to the difficulties in finding meaningful jobs and lurk here and participate in questions to learn what students are looking for so we can find the best matches for our practice. Thanks for your answers.

[Anonymous User]

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[BarbellDreams]

I'd gladly take top 30% + LR write on than top 15% + Top secondary journal just based on OCI results from the past 2 years. If you read around TLS you'll see that there are routinely people from the non T20's who are around top 10-20% and are jobless.

Really? Maybe we both have the "grass is greener" mentality, but I'm also at a T30 and was top 30% + LR write-on after 1L, and I struck out at OCI. I also saw a ton of top 10-15% kids on secondary journals (or even with no journal at all) get biglaw, so I feel like I would have gladly taken top 15% + secondary.

I guess its different at all schools. I am top 15% and top secondary and we had a total of ONE person from our journal get biglaw from OCI. Almost everyone on LR (including write on people who had nowhere near top 15%) landed either biglaw or 100K+ midlaw. The few LR kids who didn't land anything for 2L summer landed something during 3L OCI. At my school LR is everything.

[Anonymous User]

Got dinged from the fancy PI org I interned for over the summer despite being commended by the Executive Director for my commitment to the cause. Then I went to a wedding reception and scowled at people for 4 hours. Fun times.

[Aqualibrium]

Agreed that a negative attitude doesn't do any good, but it's pretty hard to not be bitter when you're constantly interviewed by shitboomer partners who graduated from TTTs with no honors and then ask you questions like "is this job really something that you want" before sending a generic ding a week later. Hey buddy, I actually put in work and did somewhat well in school while you fell into a cushy job solely because your generation was lucky. Which one of us acted more like we wanted this job?

Grab a drink...maybe a smoke too.

[094320]

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[sadsituationJD]

Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.

Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

[IAFG]

Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.

Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

Not everyone is a bitter, miserable failure like you. Maybe stop trying to convince yourself everyone else is going to fail like you failed and work on making yourself less miserable.

[Anonymous User]

Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.

Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

Someone needs to ban this dude pronto.

[ndirish2010]

Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.

Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

LOL, you know you're talking to an HLS 2L? Who is the pathetic one now?

[beach_terror]

What a sad, pathetic post on Christmas day. Literally lol'd. It must take a lot of personal unhappiness to wish failure on strangers.

[Anonymous User]

Ebenezer Scrooge in the flesh.

[somewhatwayward]

Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.

Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

Seriously GTFO. Encouraging people who are already down on their luck to commit suicide is outrageous, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I generally agree with the message you are trying to get out although I don't agree with the degree to which you predict doom and gloom. But it is also clear that it is mostly your character and your negativity that is holding you back.

[Agent]

+1

Any future posts of this type in this thread will result in bans.

Go ahead and ban, you pathetic loser. The laugh will be on you when you're the Starbucks barista or sitting in some doc review factory for $15 an hour and no health benefits/future.

I sincerely wish you all the absolute worst of luck, and hope you end up permanently unemployed (which will in all likelihood happen anyway), since you've signed up for America's Most Worthless Grad School Degree. As for the OP, just lower the garage door and start the engine, pal. It's over.

Seriously GTFO. Encouraging people who are already down on their luck to commit suicide is outrageous, and you should be ashamed of yourself. I generally agree with the message you are trying to get out although I don't agree with the degree to which you predict doom and gloom. But it is also clear that it is mostly your character and your negativity that is holding you back.

[094320]

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[Anonymous User]

Just got a rejection from Pryor Cashman. To add insult, they sent me a form summer associate rejection letter, when I was interviewing for entry level.

[beach_terror]

Are you all still sending out emails to recruiters? I don't want to get lost in the shuffle or anything since it's the holidays but also don't want to sit idly.

[Anonymous User]

Are you all still sending out emails to recruiters? I don't want to get lost in the shuffle or anything since it's the holidays but also don't want to sit idly.

I'm not. I had interviewed w/ them before the winter break, shortly after Thanksgiving. I just got back today, so was waiting in my mail box.

[wert3813]

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[Anonymous User]

Feeling mildly discouraged bros.

All of the postings are for immediate openings, and I keep getting the "We don't know what our needs are going to be in August." I'm thinking there's not really a good reason to do much until March or April.

[kalvano]

The notion that missing out on OCI means you will never find decent legal work is absurd. Plenty of people miss out at OCI and have fine careers, though perhaps nothing spectacular.

I think it depends on why you missed out. Bottom of the class and a terrible interviewer and not really good at the legal thing may not have a chance. No-offered for some reason not related to being terrible at your job or just missed out even with a few interviews means things will be harder, but you can still have a good job and make decent money.

Relax for now, have a good holiday, and realize that it will pick up again in January / February with smaller firms.

[Agent]

Sorry bro. I recommend a strong networking push until then.

I'm thinking there's not really a good reason to do much until March or April.