School OCI Data Forum

[como]

*UPDATE*

I used NALP data for the V100 firms. These numbers reflect the percentage of offers made to the 2009 SA class. I only calculated numbers for six markets (NYC, DC, SF, Chi, LA, Boston).

NYC - 88%
DC - 81%
SF - 78%
Chicago - 77%
LA - 79%
Boston - 85%

The numbers for cross-sections of the Vault100 nationwide are as follows:

V5 - 99%
V10 - 97%
V25 - 93%
V50 - 89%
V100 - 84%

Here is a list of the top five nationwide firms for SA retention (there are actually a ton that were 100%; these were just the five at the top after sorting):

Sullivan and Cromwell
Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Willkie Farr
Dewey & LeBeouf

Here are the bottom five, nationwide:

Fish & Richardson - 13%
Morgan Lewis - 28%
McGuire Woods - 33%
Reed Smith - 40%
Seyfarth - 43%

[miamiman]

how many schools have these school-specific, regional interviews and why do they parse them out from the regular OCI?

[darkarmour]

how many schools have these school-specific, regional interviews and why do they parse them out from the regular OCI?

offices do not want to send recruiters 2000 miles to interview a bunch of overprivileged high-brow law students. "make them come to us," they say. one presumes the expensive travel involved would weed out the students with low interest in the offices.

[270910]

how many schools have these school-specific, regional interviews and why do they parse them out from the regular OCI?

Most schools I have heard of have them. I would imagine some are significant in scope, but none that I have heard of are; i.e. relatively few jobs result from them.

[RVP11]

how many schools have these school-specific, regional interviews and why do they parse them out from the regular OCI?

Most schools I have heard of have them. I would imagine some are significant in scope, but none that I have heard of are; i.e. relatively few jobs result from them.

This is correct. From what I've seen they are all five to ten firms at the most.

[keg411]

I feel justified at my anecdotal Chicago evidence now. I think Philly and some of the Texas markets may have been worse (based on ATL last year), but those are far less interesting markets. In fact, I think a lot of the secondary markets got proportionally killed whereas NYC was back to strength after a lot of no-offers the previous year.

[270910]

I feel justified at my anecdotal Chicago evidence now. I think Philly and some of the Texas markets may have been worse (based on ATL last year), but those are far less interesting markets. In fact, I think a lot of the secondary markets got proportionally killed whereas NYC was back to strength after a lot of no-offers the previous year.

This is largely my read on things.

[nycsoul87]

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[darkarmour]

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[Anonymous User]

PENN LAW OCI 2010

128 uniques

242 offices

Wow, that kind of sucks.

[bwv812]

.

[como]

This is even more accurate (and way less work) than my data:
http://www.nalp.org/uploads/PerspectivesonFallRec09.pdf.

I still like having it broken down by firm though.

[bwv812]

.

[como]

This is even more accurate (and way less work) than my data:
http://www.nalp.org/uploads/PerspectivesonFallRec09.pdf.

I still like having it broken down by firm though.

Could you break your data/xls down V10-25, V25-50, and V50-100? Total # of offers & no-offers for each group would be very very cool, too.

V10: 911 offers | 28 no-offers | 97% offer rate
V10-25: 1415 offers | 155 no-offers | 90% offer rate
V25-50: 1063 offers | 241 no-offers | 82% offer rate
V50-100: 785 offers | 369 no-offers | 68% offer rate

You can see how the offer rate drops almost exponentially as you move down the V100.

[bwv812]

.

[Anonymous User]

I have it on good authority that 33% got offers at UCLA OCI last year. Not much worse than Michigan. Probably helps that were the best school in the 3rd biggest legal market.

[SuichiKurama]

I have it on good authority that 33% got offers at UCLA OCI last year. Not much worse than Michigan. Probably helps that were the best school in the 3rd biggest legal market.

LA has less jobs than DC? I thought DC was smaller?

[270910]

I have it on good authority that 33% got offers at UCLA OCI last year. Not much worse than Michigan. Probably helps that were the best school in the 3rd biggest legal market.

LA has less jobs than DC? I thought DC was smaller?

NY and DC are the two biggest legal markets, everything after that is smaller by a fairly substantial margin - if I'm remembering properly from the last time I looked at the data.

[RVP11]

I have it on good authority that 33% got offers at UCLA OCI last year. Not much worse than Michigan. Probably helps that were the best school in the 3rd biggest legal market.

LA has less jobs than DC? I thought DC was smaller?

DC is a lot bigger than LA.

It's like:

NY

huge dropoff

DC

huge dropoff

Chicago

good-sized dropoff

LA

[270910]

The top 25 legal markets based on an old martindale search from a TLS post I found:

1 New York 54,282
2 Washington 36,126
3 Chicago 25,251
4 Los Angeles 20,238
5 Houston 14,092
6 San Francisco 12,847
7 Boston 12,036
8 Atlanta 11,897
9 Philadelphia 10,790
10 Dallas 10,772
11 Miami 7,752
12 Denver 7,564
13 San Diego 7,255
14 Seattle 6,999
15 Minneapolis 6,712
16 Cleveland 6,293
17 St. Louis 6,157
18 Pittsburgh 5,687
19 Portland 5,687
20 Austin 5,563
21 Columbus 5,532
22 Phoenix 5,478
23 Sacramento 4,426
24 Kansas City 4,420
25 Indianapolis 4,387

[LawSchoolWannaBe]

I feel justified at my anecdotal Chicago evidence now. I think Philly and some of the Texas markets may have been worse (based on ATL last year), but those are far less interesting markets. In fact, I think a lot of the secondary markets got proportionally killed whereas NYC was back to strength after a lot of no-offers the previous year.

This is largely my read on things.

FWIW, from that NALP link someone provided ~45% of NYC offers were deferred compared to 10-20% for lots of other markets. I wonder how many of those people will ever start?

[keg411]

I feel justified at my anecdotal Chicago evidence now. I think Philly and some of the Texas markets may have been worse (based on ATL last year), but those are far less interesting markets. In fact, I think a lot of the secondary markets got proportionally killed whereas NYC was back to strength after a lot of no-offers the previous year.

This is largely my read on things.

FWIW, from that NALP link someone provided ~45% of NYC offers were deferred compared to 10-20% for lots of other markets. I wonder how many of those people will ever start?

There are different types of deferrals, though. Some have definitive start dates in January '11. Some are deferred until 2012. That number isn't any good unless it's broken out by how long the deferrals actually are.

[como]

I have it on good authority that 33% got offers at UCLA OCI last year. Not much worse than Michigan. Probably helps that were the best school in the 3rd biggest legal market.

LA has less jobs than DC? I thought DC was smaller?

DC is a lot bigger than LA.

It's like:

NY

huge dropoff

DC

huge dropoff

Chicago

good-sized dropoff

LA

Just to corroborate most of this, here are the 2009 SA offers for the V100 in each market:

NYC - 2216
DC - 743
LA - 377
Chicago - 353
Boston - 255
SF - 230

V100 is definitely skewed toward NYC, and probably a greater percentage of the LA market is V100 whereas Chicago and Boston have a substantial number of non-V100 big firms. However, taking the V100 as a proxy for market size, you can see that DC is 2d by a healthy margin.

[270910]

I have it on good authority that 33% got offers at UCLA OCI last year. Not much worse than Michigan. Probably helps that were the best school in the 3rd biggest legal market.

LA has less jobs than DC? I thought DC was smaller?

DC is a lot bigger than LA.

It's like:

NY

huge dropoff

DC

huge dropoff

Chicago

good-sized dropoff

LA

Just to corroborate most of this, here are the 2009 SA offers for the V100 in each market:

NYC - 2216
DC - 743
LA - 377
Chicago - 353
Boston - 255
SF - 230

V100 is definitely skewed toward NYC, and probably a greater percentage of the LA market is V100 whereas Chicago and Boston have a substantial number of non-V100 big firms. However, taking the V100 as a proxy for market size, you can see that DC is 2d by a healthy margin.

Yep. This is probably one instance where even the skewing of the V100 is irrelevant. NYC is just big. Like, large. Like, hires way more students than any other market. It's really, really big. Quite enormous.

[romothesavior]

So is NYC a big market? Like, big? Large, ya know?