Restructuring megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any advice for a current bankruptcy court clerk looking to transition into a firm for rx/bk? I was a SA but my firm wasn't hiring for the group so I'm going to look to transition to a different firm. When should I start looking? Is the hiring market going to be tough? I'm in a smaller district where filings are mostly on the consumer side, if that helps. My summer firm was a midsized one in a secondary market, I'm looking to transition into a larger market (NYC, Chi, Houston)

[Anonymous User]

There seems to be an uptick in interest in restructuring. I have a lot of questions as someone strongly considering the field. Figured this is a good place for all restructuring related questions.

Rx rising 4th year (Can't believe I'm saying those words) just to give my experience directed generally at the tread after reading a few peoples' questions:

1. Depends on where you practice, not all firms are equal. The Weil, Kirkland of the Debtor world will obviously yield you different results. Have seen people leave for distressed funds, other company side roles, take secondments and stay where they were working, etc. Creditor-side, if you're at a place like Gibson, then you're interacting everyday with major lending and financial institutions, if you build those relationships with people in your year at the Houlihan Lokeys and Lazards of the world, certainly you'll find there is a broader world of opportunity available to you for networking.

2. The work is extremely challenging, and very interesting no matter what side you're on. The tasks are varied, whether it's drafting an objection, organizing the top secret holdings info for a group, attending lots of calls where people yell at each other, or watching a company's position change overtime (either from bad to worse or worse to better) are all superb aspects of the RX game. It stays interesting even though there is also a lot of repetition. Debtor side you might be working on two to there massive debtor cases; creditor side you're working on dozens of cases throughout the year because you might negotiate and execute a DIP a Restructuring Support Agreement on a 1-2 month timeline, rinse and repeat it all again on another case. Things are electric before a filing, they cool down, then you join a new case and do it all again. Currently, I'm billing regularly to 8 cases (per my last count).

3. I went into bankruptcy because I liked it the most in law school and want to know about debt as we come to a pretty challenging economic time. Our economy is built on debt, knowing a lot about it sometimes feels a bit like a superpower. But, it's a really challenging area of big law. Two of the best pieces of advice I've been given: "half the battle is not getting overwhelmed", and "don't get discouraged." It's a tough department wherever you go to practice in. I think it's worth noting that 5 years in big law can financially change your life and make you a great candidate for a lot of positions, if you "only" end up in big law for five years - you still made it farther than a lot of others! I don't know what I'll do when my number is up in big law, I don't think I'll make partner (I'm not the best at the job even though I do try really hard). But, I'm also not concerned with what I'll do afterward. Hoping to just bag cash for the next year, pay down loans and see where the river takes me.

4. The one constant of every firm I've been in, and I've been in a few, is that the bankruptcy group is always filled with high biller workaholics. I think the culture is starting to shift the tiniest bit after the pandemic, but when things are on you're on. Deals are usually staffed pretty leanly, even for super large matters, and you're given a lot of client interaction very young. Lots of listservs to embarrass yourself on, high expectations, and sometimes an unforgiving atmosphere. Some days I hate it, but I know for a fact that I would not have survived as a corporate M&A associate or a litigation associate without the bankruptcy aspect. So, one way to see it is that there aren't a lot of great exit options, the other way to see it is that picking something you find really interesting can give you a good run in big law, leave you with some good connections, and put you in a great place to take advantage of whatever career resources your law firm has for associates thinking of transitioning (and most firms have a lot).

TL;DR, pick what you're interested in and don't forget that firms have resources to help associates looking to leave big law and transition to clients, government, or other positions. Bankruptcy is a "fast-paced" environment with a "work-hard, play-hard culture" that can attract the typical gunner personalities. The groups really depend on the personalities but all will expect you to bust your ass on the timesheet. Livable because if you are well liked in your group, you'll always have something to do to pass the time. "On balance, in balance."

Is there consensus to RX being an 'extremely challenging' practice area? I've been told that RX is pretty comparable to transactional practices in terms of difficulty, especially as a junior. Does this depend on whether one will be practicing debtor side or creditor side? I'll be joining a well known debtor side firm.

Also, if someone could answer the Q about partnership in RX, I'd be super appreciative.

How does one make partner in rx? Obviously building a book of business wouldn't be the same as in most corporate groups. So what kinds of things matter?

[dyemond]

There seems to be an uptick in interest in restructuring. I have a lot of questions as someone strongly considering the field. Figured this is a good place for all restructuring related questions.

Rx rising 4th year (Can't believe I'm saying those words) just to give my experience directed generally at the tread after reading a few peoples' questions:

1. Depends on where you practice, not all firms are equal. The Weil, Kirkland of the Debtor world will obviously yield you different results. Have seen people leave for distressed funds, other company side roles, take secondments and stay where they were working, etc. Creditor-side, if you're at a place like Gibson, then you're interacting everyday with major lending and financial institutions, if you build those relationships with people in your year at the Houlihan Lokeys and Lazards of the world, certainly you'll find there is a broader world of opportunity available to you for networking.

2. The work is extremely challenging, and very interesting no matter what side you're on. The tasks are varied, whether it's drafting an objection, organizing the top secret holdings info for a group, attending lots of calls where people yell at each other, or watching a company's position change overtime (either from bad to worse or worse to better) are all superb aspects of the RX game. It stays interesting even though there is also a lot of repetition. Debtor side you might be working on two to there massive debtor cases; creditor side you're working on dozens of cases throughout the year because you might negotiate and execute a DIP a Restructuring Support Agreement on a 1-2 month timeline, rinse and repeat it all again on another case. Things are electric before a filing, they cool down, then you join a new case and do it all again. Currently, I'm billing regularly to 8 cases (per my last count).

3. I went into bankruptcy because I liked it the most in law school and want to know about debt as we come to a pretty challenging economic time. Our economy is built on debt, knowing a lot about it sometimes feels a bit like a superpower. But, it's a really challenging area of big law. Two of the best pieces of advice I've been given: "half the battle is not getting overwhelmed", and "don't get discouraged." It's a tough department wherever you go to practice in. I think it's worth noting that 5 years in big law can financially change your life and make you a great candidate for a lot of positions, if you "only" end up in big law for five years - you still made it farther than a lot of others! I don't know what I'll do when my number is up in big law, I don't think I'll make partner (I'm not the best at the job even though I do try really hard). But, I'm also not concerned with what I'll do afterward. Hoping to just bag cash for the next year, pay down loans and see where the river takes me.

4. The one constant of every firm I've been in, and I've been in a few, is that the bankruptcy group is always filled with high biller workaholics. I think the culture is starting to shift the tiniest bit after the pandemic, but when things are on you're on. Deals are usually staffed pretty leanly, even for super large matters, and you're given a lot of client interaction very young. Lots of listservs to embarrass yourself on, high expectations, and sometimes an unforgiving atmosphere. Some days I hate it, but I know for a fact that I would not have survived as a corporate M&A associate or a litigation associate without the bankruptcy aspect. So, one way to see it is that there aren't a lot of great exit options, the other way to see it is that picking something you find really interesting can give you a good run in big law, leave you with some good connections, and put you in a great place to take advantage of whatever career resources your law firm has for associates thinking of transitioning (and most firms have a lot).

TL;DR, pick what you're interested in and don't forget that firms have resources to help associates looking to leave big law and transition to clients, government, or other positions. Bankruptcy is a "fast-paced" environment with a "work-hard, play-hard culture" that can attract the typical gunner personalities. The groups really depend on the personalities but all will expect you to bust your ass on the timesheet. Livable because if you are well liked in your group, you'll always have something to do to pass the time. "On balance, in balance."

Is there consensus to RX being an 'extremely challenging' practice area? I've been told that RX is pretty comparable to transactional practices in terms of difficulty, especially as a junior. Does this depend on whether one will be practicing debtor side or creditor side? I'll be joining a well known debtor side firm.

Also, if someone could answer the Q about partnership in RX, I'd be super appreciative.

How does one make partner in rx? Obviously building a book of business wouldn't be the same as in most corporate groups. So what kinds of things matter?

I don’t know that I fully agree with the long post by the last guy, but two things:

1. Rx is challenging like levfin is challenging—in the beginning, a lot of rote/corporate-tasks mostly revolving around schedules and keeping process moving, but the whole time you’re supposed to be absorbing fairly sophisticated concepts, so when you hit 4th year, you should be proficient/borderline-fluent in these concepts and be able to essentially run a deal with partner oversight. It’s mostly the difficulty curve—as a rx or levfin attorney, understanding how the other side operates, understanding timing, so many soft skills combined with a genuine appreciation for the substance and the underlying nuances, most/all of which will be completely alien to people fresh out of law school, compared to something like litigation or even M&A.

2. Partnership, assuming we are talking a big practice like KE, PW, WGM, DPW, LW or GDC, is one of two paths, depending on whether you’re creditor or debtor side. If creditor-side, you’re supposed to be building up relationships with banks and financial institutions the whole time—it’s similar to lender-side levfin in that it comes down to years of building relationships, networking and doing reps to build trust and credibility. On the company side, unless you’re literally one of 3 people (extreme rainmakers/group heads) at either KE or Weil, it’s “how much does the firm like you?” Again, outside of those 3 people at either firm, it’s really the firm/brand being hired for debtor mandates, so to make equity it’s a question of whether you’ve done sufficient internal networking with the right folks to earn your place. You still have to be a star/make a name for yourself with the restructuring community, but when a random PE portco for Big Sponsor Capital LP gets in trouble, the PE partner calls up the rx partner they like and gets them involved. It’s a much more institutional relationship.

Pros and cons to both approaches.

[Anonymous User]

This is a Q for people doing RX at Kirkland. Do first years get to travel? Outside of NY or TX? How common is being able to travel internationally?

[Anonymous User]

This is a Q for people doing RX at Kirkland. Do first years get to travel? Outside of NY or TX? How common is being able to travel internationally?

Depending on the case/jurisdiction, you'll travel for the first-day hearing and likely DS/confirmation hearings. Maybe first-day diligence, but that is rare post-COVID. Pick an airline/hotel and stick with both.

You'll rarely, if ever, travel internationally.

[existentialcrisis]

This is a Q for people doing RX at Kirkland. Do first years get to travel? Outside of NY or TX? How common is being able to travel internationally?

Depending on the case/jurisdiction, you'll travel for the first-day hearing and likely DS/confirmation hearings. Maybe first-day diligence, but that is rare post-COVID. Pick an airline/hotel and stick with both.

You'll rarely, if ever, travel internationally.

Traveling for work is the worst.

[Anonymous User]

This is a Q for people doing RX at Kirkland. Do first years get to travel? Outside of NY or TX? How common is being able to travel internationally?

Depending on the case/jurisdiction, you'll travel for the first-day hearing and likely DS/confirmation hearings. Maybe first-day diligence, but that is rare post-COVID. Pick an airline/hotel and stick with both.

You'll rarely, if ever, travel internationally.

What do you typically get to bill? I've also heard that in certain RX groups, associates may work on a deal that requires them to visit the company / the city of the company's HQ. How common is that? Honestly seems kind of cool and one of the things that entices me about the practice is learning about different types of companies and being able to do something of the sort.

I'm less excited about traveling for first-day hearings.

[Anonymous User]

Not from Kirkland.

You bill / expense everything the moment you step out of your home but the partners decide what to fully/partially write off.

For first day preps, yes sometimes we will go on-site with the consultants to diligence and button out the things we are saying the first day motions. It's become a lot less common now after COVID, and even if you get to go, it will usually just be a few days because we don't want to incur lots of travel expenses and the consultants will stay on site to ping the company for the information we need anyway.

Other big ones where you will travel is to the court; usually confirmation hearing, major mediation, major hearings (a big sale, key settlement, key contested matters) etc. But now that Texas judges are pretty friendly to zoom hearings, it doesn't even happen as much (trust me you don't wanna go to Delaware or Fidi/white plains in SDNY). We've also got people to travel to the company's HQ in Europe very frequently on a deal before but it was rare even for pre-COVID standard.

[Anonymous User]

This is a Q for people doing RX at Kirkland. Do first years get to travel? Outside of NY or TX? How common is being able to travel internationally?

Depending on the case/jurisdiction, you'll travel for the first-day hearing and likely DS/confirmation hearings. Maybe first-day diligence, but that is rare post-COVID. Pick an airline/hotel and stick with both.

You'll rarely, if ever, travel internationally.

What do you typically get to bill? I've also heard that in certain RX groups, associates may work on a deal that requires them to visit the company / the city of the company's HQ. How common is that? Honestly seems kind of cool and one of the things that entices me about the practice is learning about different types of companies and being able to do something of the sort.

I'm less excited about traveling for first-day hearings.

All travel is billed to the client at half time, but you bill (and get credit for) all hours the moment you leave (e.g., home) to whenever you get to your final destination (e.g., hotel).

On-site diligence is less common post-COVID, and you don't need to be on-site to learn a company or industry. The practice is cool for this reason, among others, but travel ain't it.

As a junior, you'll only be traveling for hearings, and in the current environment, maybe not even then. Many judges are now moving back to in-person hearings and only allowing remote hearings under certain circumstances.

Work travel is one of those things that sounds better than it actually is--yeah, the status makes travel less shitty, but also I had to travel that much to get that status.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for all of the replies! Not quoting any reply because this is open for anyone to answer.

What makes traveling for work so undesirable? I may be naive or not looking at the full picture here. I kind of figured it's a good way to get a lot of billable hours clocked. I understand that the work you had before you got on the airplane is still there and playing catch up once you're back might be the toughest part. What else am I not considering here? Are there any other obvious downsides to having to travel for first day motions? Besides having your day-to-day disrupted, having to be away from loved ones, etc.

[Anonymous User]

First year at a well-respected debtor-side shop. Pretty large incoming class in the restructuring group. Seems like almost everybody in the class has some experience or a documented interest in bankruptcy. For example, several individuals have had externships at a bankruptcy court, participated in restructuring/bankruptcy competitions at their law school, were members of their school's bankruptcy and restructuring group, CALI'd bankruptcy courses, etc.

I don't know the first thing about procedure in bankruptcy court. Have not taken a corporate restructuring course. Received an A in my Bankruptcy 101 course but it was multiple choice and quite frankly, I don't think this is noteworthy. Basically, I have *some* understanding of secured transactions and Chapter 7, 13, and consumer bankruptcy. Don't know anything about Chapter 11, unlike many of the incoming associates in my class.

How much of an advantage are the other incoming associates likely to have over me? What can I do at this point to bridge this gap? Am I overthinking this? I'm having a lot of anxiety and envisioning scenarios in which I'm the only person that has no idea what is going on.

[Anonymous User]

For me, it’s meanwhile I’m traveling in economy class and rushing everywhere, which is already physically and mentally exhausting, I have to pull out my laptop whenever and wherever I get to sit on my ass and do the tasks that are harder now because there’s no monitors, no good wifi, the airplane/airports seats are uncomfortable (I’m 6’4), incrementally stressed that the plane is delayed/TSA check has a 30min waiting time, etc.

It’s nothing like vacation travel; the mentality and stress are completely different.

[Anonymous User]

First year at a well-respected debtor-side shop. Pretty large incoming class in the restructuring group. Seems like almost everybody in the class has some experience or a documented interest in bankruptcy. For example, several individuals have had externships at a bankruptcy court, participated in restructuring/bankruptcy competitions at their law school, were members of their school's bankruptcy and restructuring group, CALI'd bankruptcy courses, etc.

I don't know the first thing about procedure in bankruptcy court. Have not taken a corporate restructuring course. Received an A in my Bankruptcy 101 course but it was multiple choice and quite frankly, I don't think this is noteworthy. Basically, I have *some* understanding of secured transactions and Chapter 7, 13, and consumer bankruptcy. Don't know anything about Chapter 11, unlike many of the incoming associates in my class.

How much of an advantage are the other incoming associates likely to have over me? What can I do at this point to bridge this gap? Am I overthinking this? I'm having a lot of anxiety and envisioning scenarios in which I'm the only person that has no idea what is going on.

If this is comforting to know, I can tell you no matter how each new first year thinks how well versed they are in bankruptcy codes/rx, they actually don’t know squad needed for the job, especially at a debtor shop. There’s a bare minimum each new first year will have to know about one year in, and you will learn all of it anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for all of the replies! Not quoting any reply because this is open for anyone to answer.

What makes traveling for work so undesirable? I may be naive or not looking at the full picture here. I kind of figured it's a good way to get a lot of billable hours clocked. I understand that the work you had before you got on the airplane is still there and playing catch up once you're back might be the toughest part. What else am I not considering here? Are there any other obvious downsides to having to travel for first day motions? Besides having your day-to-day disrupted, having to be away from loved ones, etc.

It's exhausting. I prefer to travel in the evening because I'm less likely to need to work / answer emails on the plane, which is awful. Being on a plane isn't fun, even if a short flight, after a full day of work. And yes, the work is still there regardless of when you travel, it's more about timing when you're going to do it.

Being in an airport is terrible, even if you try and time it out so you're at the gate when boarding starts. Depending on which airport you're at, the food sucks (the new terminal at LGA is pretty good though). The more you travel, the more likely you are to encounter delays--I've had flights cancelled, which adds an extra day or two and the hassle of rebooking , especially if after-hours because then I have to rebook and spend 30 minutes with our travel agent while on the road.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for all of the replies! Not quoting any reply because this is open for anyone to answer.

What makes traveling for work so undesirable? I may be naive or not looking at the full picture here. I kind of figured it's a good way to get a lot of billable hours clocked. I understand that the work you had before you got on the airplane is still there and playing catch up once you're back might be the toughest part. What else am I not considering here? Are there any other obvious downsides to having to travel for first day motions? Besides having your day-to-day disrupted, having to be away from loved ones, etc.

It's exhausting. I prefer to travel in the evening because I'm less likely to need to work / answer emails on the plane, which is awful. Being on a plane isn't fun, even if a short flight, after a full day of work. And yes, the work is still there regardless of when you travel, it's more about timing when you're going to do it.

Being in an airport is terrible, even if you try and time it out so you're at the gate when boarding starts. Depending on which airport you're at, the food sucks (the new terminal at LGA is pretty good though). The more you travel, the more likely you are to encounter delays--I've had flights cancelled, which adds an extra day or two and the hassle of rebooking , especially if after-hours because then I have to rebook and spend 30 minutes with our travel agent while on the road.

Dumb question: If your flight gets delayed, I'm assuming you can't bill for those hours?

Also, do you typically book your own flights or is there a centralized team that books it? Or do you get to choose? Guessing some people prefer to book themselves and then get reimbursed for the points.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for all of the replies! Not quoting any reply because this is open for anyone to answer.

What makes traveling for work so undesirable? I may be naive or not looking at the full picture here. I kind of figured it's a good way to get a lot of billable hours clocked. I understand that the work you had before you got on the airplane is still there and playing catch up once you're back might be the toughest part. What else am I not considering here? Are there any other obvious downsides to having to travel for first day motions? Besides having your day-to-day disrupted, having to be away from loved ones, etc.

It's exhausting. I prefer to travel in the evening because I'm less likely to need to work / answer emails on the plane, which is awful. Being on a plane isn't fun, even if a short flight, after a full day of work. And yes, the work is still there regardless of when you travel, it's more about timing when you're going to do it.

Being in an airport is terrible, even if you try and time it out so you're at the gate when boarding starts. Depending on which airport you're at, the food sucks (the new terminal at LGA is pretty good though). The more you travel, the more likely you are to encounter delays--I've had flights cancelled, which adds an extra day or two and the hassle of rebooking , especially if after-hours because then I have to rebook and spend 30 minutes with our travel agent while on the road.

Dumb question: If your flight gets delayed, I'm assuming you can't bill for those hours?

Also, do you typically book your own flights or is there a centralized team that books it? Or do you get to choose? Guessing some people prefer to book themselves and then get reimbursed for the points.

You can bill up to two hours of a delay.

My assistant has my credit cards--I tell her what flight and hotel, and then she books. Those and any other expenses are reimbursed.

[Anonymous User]

First year at a well-respected debtor-side shop. Pretty large incoming class in the restructuring group. Seems like almost everybody in the class has some experience or a documented interest in bankruptcy. For example, several individuals have had externships at a bankruptcy court, participated in restructuring/bankruptcy competitions at their law school, were members of their school's bankruptcy and restructuring group, CALI'd bankruptcy courses, etc.

I don't know the first thing about procedure in bankruptcy court. Have not taken a corporate restructuring course. Received an A in my Bankruptcy 101 course but it was multiple choice and quite frankly, I don't think this is noteworthy. Basically, I have *some* understanding of secured transactions and Chapter 7, 13, and consumer bankruptcy. Don't know anything about Chapter 11, unlike many of the incoming associates in my class.

How much of an advantage are the other incoming associates likely to have over me? What can I do at this point to bridge this gap? Am I overthinking this? I'm having a lot of anxiety and envisioning scenarios in which I'm the only person that has no idea what is going on.

If this is comforting to know, I can tell you no matter how each new first year thinks how well versed they are in bankruptcy codes/rx, they actually don’t know squad needed for the job, especially at a debtor shop. There’s a bare minimum each new first year will have to know about one year in, and you will learn all of it anyway.

This is comforting! Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

First year at a well-respected debtor-side shop. Pretty large incoming class in the restructuring group. Seems like almost everybody in the class has some experience or a documented interest in bankruptcy. For example, several individuals have had externships at a bankruptcy court, participated in restructuring/bankruptcy competitions at their law school, were members of their school's bankruptcy and restructuring group, CALI'd bankruptcy courses, etc.

I don't know the first thing about procedure in bankruptcy court. Have not taken a corporate restructuring course. Received an A in my Bankruptcy 101 course but it was multiple choice and quite frankly, I don't think this is noteworthy. Basically, I have *some* understanding of secured transactions and Chapter 7, 13, and consumer bankruptcy. Don't know anything about Chapter 11, unlike many of the incoming associates in my class.

How much of an advantage are the other incoming associates likely to have over me? What can I do at this point to bridge this gap? Am I overthinking this? I'm having a lot of anxiety and envisioning scenarios in which I'm the only person that has no idea what is going on.

If this is comforting to know, I can tell you no matter how each new first year thinks how well versed they are in bankruptcy codes/rx, they actually don’t know squad needed for the job, especially at a debtor shop. There’s a bare minimum each new first year will have to know about one year in, and you will learn all of it anyway.

This is comforting! Thank you.

Great. Just relax (most important of all), be eager to learn, be available, and take ownership of whatever you're working on (which means a lot of things). Any new first years who come in and try to impress us with their knowledge of bankruptcy just look like clowns to us.

[Anonymous User]

Realistically, how long does one need to spend at one of the top creditor firms (PW, DPW, etc.) before you get looks for legal roles at solid distressed investment shops? Is 3 years premature? What is comp like for that sort of exit?

[Anonymous User]

Realistically, how long does one need to spend at one of the top creditor firms (PW, DPW, etc.) before you get looks for legal roles at solid distressed investment shops? Is 3 years premature? What is comp like for that sort of exit?

PW. Would say 3 years is definitely premature, I see these exits starting at year 5 but really heating up at year 7+. The roles vary wildly, some are basically execution attorneys, some are desk attorneys (you get pinged with a bunch of random one-off "how does bankruptcy work," "what fits in the investments basket," etc, from the team as they're looking at opportunities), some are riding with the investment team on the transactions.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that 3rd year is early for a fund exit. I’m fifth year creditor side.

People always say that there actually are good exit options for restructuring attorneys on the creditor side. However, they’re still much worse than they are in other groups, and timing is part of the reason why.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that 3rd year is early for a fund exit. I’m fifth year creditor side.

People always say that there actually are good exit options for restructuring attorneys on the creditor side. However, they’re still much worse than they are in other groups, and timing is part of the reason why.

Bleak.

[Anonymous User]

Agree that 3rd year is early for a fund exit. I’m fifth year creditor side.

People always say that there actually are good exit options for restructuring attorneys on the creditor side. However, they’re still much worse than they are in other groups, and timing is part of the reason why.

Bleak.

I worked on the buyside before law school (not distressed/special sits). Don't have the wrong idea that the work-life balance is better at the buyside. The hours are only marginally better than banking/big law at some shops, and at other shops (especially distressed/special sits) the hours are just as bad.

And in this environment you will likely take a cash paycut. The carry is just a little more than negligible unless you're a mid-senior level investment professional.

[Anonymous User]

There is always the 1-3 years RX Attorney -> 2 years RX IB associate -> fund path as well.

The hours are better and more importantly significantly more control over them though alot of people still got blown up the weekend SVB / CS went down for example.

[Anonymous User]

Question for those went to a fund or IB: what finance knowledge did you have? Could you run a model? Had you written one? I took an accounting class in college and passed level 1 of the CFA but that's all my knowledge, which feels ... substantially behind what even a second year analyst would have, so hard to see why a bank would hire me to be an associate.