Does Y @ sticker ever make sense over CCN full rides for maximizing ROI? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I had a (much less prestigious) similar choice between a lower T14 full ride, and an ivy league T7 on partial scholly. Ok ok, it was Penn, and the other school was Northwestern. I took NU and it was absolutely the right choice, I'm in the same job I'd have gotten from Penn and with less debt. But sometimes I do have a tinge of regret. Not true regret because I know I made the right choice. I still know I was good enough to get into an Ivy (can't really articulate why that's important to me beyond the ranking etc, but it is). Just wanted to toss into the mix to say that I understand why someone would find this a tough decision and be tempted to go with the intangible preftige over the financially prudence choice.

There is no such thing as an "ivy" when it comes to law school. NW and Penn are objectively the same. Both in terms of admissions profiles and in terms of the caliber of students and outcomes. Slight difference being that elite firms that don't attend NW's OCI go to Penn's.

The University of Pennsylvania is a member of the Ivy League. As is Columbia, Harvard, Yale and... Cornell. And a bunch of other schools that don't have law schools. Plus, there's a bunch of schools considered "ivy" that are not actually Ivy (eg Stanford, Chicago).

You're right of course that there is no real significance to ivies in terms of LS quality. And that's why in fact I did take the money. But coming from pretty much nothing like I did, I still have a part of me that wants the meaningless validation of a diploma from an ivy league university.

Penn is a lower-tier Ivy anyway, nobody pretends it’s a better school than Chicago or Stanford overall, and yes, people snobby enough to care about Ivies versus Northwestern make such distinctions. NW and Penn are on the same tier as institutions.

[Anonymous User]

I had a (much less prestigious) similar choice between a lower T14 full ride, and an ivy league T7 on partial scholly. Ok ok, it was Penn, and the other school was Northwestern. I took NU and it was absolutely the right choice, I'm in the same job I'd have gotten from Penn and with less debt. But sometimes I do have a tinge of regret. Not true regret because I know I made the right choice. I still know I was good enough to get into an Ivy (can't really articulate why that's important to me beyond the ranking etc, but it is). Just wanted to toss into the mix to say that I understand why someone would find this a tough decision and be tempted to go with the intangible preftige over the financially prudence choice.

There is no such thing as an "ivy" when it comes to law school. NW and Penn are objectively the same. Both in terms of admissions profiles and in terms of the caliber of students and outcomes. Slight difference being that elite firms that don't attend NW's OCI go to Penn's.

The University of Pennsylvania is a member of the Ivy League. As is Columbia, Harvard, Yale and... Cornell. And a bunch of other schools that don't have law schools. Plus, there's a bunch of schools considered "ivy" that are not actually Ivy (eg Stanford, Chicago).

You're right of course that there is no real significance to ivies in terms of LS quality. And that's why in fact I did take the money. But coming from pretty much nothing like I did, I still have a part of me that wants the meaningless validation of a diploma from an ivy league university.

Penn is a lower-tier Ivy anyway, nobody pretends it’s a better school than Chicago or Stanford overall, and yes, people snobby enough to care about Ivies versus Northwestern make such distinctions. NW and Penn are on the same tier as institutions.

Eh this isn't really true. I have no horse in this race (am an upper Ivy UG) but Penn isn't really a lower tier Ivy, they're more smack dab in the middle. Below HYPC but clearly ahead of BDC. Also, agreed that Penn is not on the same tier as Standford, but Chicago is a more nuanced comparison. Penn is much stronger in big corporate placement than Chicago, while Chicago opens significantly more doors in academia. I think NW is closer to Brown/Dartmouth/Cornell than it is to Penn/Chicago.

This is obviously a holistic institutional comparison, not a law school centered one.

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

to be fair, lay prestige notwithstanding, GCs should realize that people can get into Yale with 150s LSATs if they have a good GPA and background. Using institution as a proxy for IQ, it'd make more sense to give the tilt to Harvard/Standard/Chicago/Columbia grads

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with exactly. In the original posters example, they all DID end up at the same firm. So what did the expended $300k on the Yale degree win him or her, other than the partners praise? And this post isn’t comparing going to Hofstra with Yale, it’s CCN versus Yale.

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

to be fair, lay prestige notwithstanding, GCs should realize that people can get into Yale with 150s LSATs if they have a good GPA and background. Using institution as a proxy for IQ, it'd make more sense to give the tilt to Harvard/Standard/Chicago/Columbia grads

I'm confused, doesn't Yale generally have the highest 25/50/75 for LSAT?

[Anonymous User]

People reasonably pay 200K+ for a nicer house (or even fancy cars) all the time. I went to HLS and that is worth some amount to me, though hard to put a specific $$ amount on it. May not be rational financially but doesn't mean it's stupid or wrong.

Disclosure: I did receive a ton of need-based aid so maybe I don't have the proper perspective on 200K of debt.

[nixy]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

Someone in this thread sure has a beef with Hofstra grads (especially since no one has been talking about them).

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with exactly. In the original posters example, they all DID end up at the same firm. So what did the expended $300k on the Yale degree win him or her, other than the partners praise? And this post isn’t comparing going to Hofstra with Yale, it’s CCN versus Yale.

more likely to be hired, less likely to be fired, all things being equal, due to intangible attractiveness of firm bio vs. loser CCN grad.

[Anonymous User]

I had a (much less prestigious) similar choice between a lower T14 full ride, and an ivy league T7 on partial scholly. Ok ok, it was Penn, and the other school was Northwestern. I took NU and it was absolutely the right choice, I'm in the same job I'd have gotten from Penn and with less debt. But sometimes I do have a tinge of regret. Not true regret because I know I made the right choice. I still know I was good enough to get into an Ivy (can't really articulate why that's important to me beyond the ranking etc, but it is). Just wanted to toss into the mix to say that I understand why someone would find this a tough decision and be tempted to go with the intangible preftige over the financially prudence choice.

There is no such thing as an "ivy" when it comes to law school. NW and Penn are objectively the same. Both in terms of admissions profiles and in terms of the caliber of students and outcomes. Slight difference being that elite firms that don't attend NW's OCI go to Penn's.

The University of Pennsylvania is a member of the Ivy League. As is Columbia, Harvard, Yale and... Cornell. And a bunch of other schools that don't have law schools. Plus, there's a bunch of schools considered "ivy" that are not actually Ivy (eg Stanford, Chicago).

You're right of course that there is no real significance to ivies in terms of LS quality. And that's why in fact I did take the money. But coming from pretty much nothing like I did, I still have a part of me that wants the meaningless validation of a diploma from an ivy league university.

Penn is a lower-tier Ivy anyway, nobody pretends it’s a better school than Chicago or Stanford overall, and yes, people snobby enough to care about Ivies versus Northwestern make such distinctions. NW and Penn are on the same tier as institutions.

Eh this isn't really true. I have no horse in this race (am an upper Ivy UG) but Penn isn't really a lower tier Ivy, they're more smack dab in the middle. Below HYPC but clearly ahead of BDC. Also, agreed that Penn is not on the same tier as Standford, but Chicago is a more nuanced comparison. Penn is much stronger in big corporate placement than Chicago, while Chicago opens significantly more doors in academia. I think NW is closer to Brown/Dartmouth/Cornell than it is to Penn/Chicago.

This is obviously a holistic institutional comparison, not a law school centered one.

If you think penn is closer to chicago than it is to northwestern, you're delusional. We get it, you went to penn and it's a comforting thought. Just take solace in knowing it's a great school and once again, no functional difference in the student bodies of northwestern vs. penn and the difference in outcome is limited to the prestige options of ny big law.

Also, chicago students self-select out of big law.

[ExpOriental]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

Someone in this thread sure has a beef with Hofstra grads (especially since no one has been talking about them).

Smells like a Yalie that got flexed on by a Hofstra grad at oral argument or something and never got over it.

Funnily enough the answer to the dumb captcha this site makes us fill out to post was "Yale." A bit on the nose tbh.

[Anonymous User]

I took a maxed-need-based assistance at HLS over a full ride at CCN. Financially it definitely wasn’t worth it, but at least it was a closer call than sticker at Yale and full ride at CCN.

I would do it again, though, because I’m vain and would have always wished I’d gone to Harvard. I also was afraid I would suck at law school so thought the fact I could finish bottom of class and still get a job and my grades would be more opaque was worth 100k of debt to me. Not financially sound, but honest assessment. So the like 100k in debt was worth it to me at the time, and I’d prob do it again, but eyes wide open it was bad financial decision making certainly. In corporate biglaw, I would think CCN probably has an advantage over Yale if anything (Yalies are seen as weird striver types by some in the generic shops, even if people don’t openly admit this to them, and there’s just less of an alum base overall).

But not an absolutely insane question from a 0L perspective. But definitely had a very clear unambiguous answer re whether it makes financial sense.

I went to CLS and it felt like 60% of my classmates had a chip on their shoulder that they weren't at HLS. It was a weird feeling that made me think I should have went to NYU instead

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with exactly. In the original posters example, they all DID end up at the same firm. So what did the expended $300k on the Yale degree win him or her, other than the partners praise? And this post isn’t comparing going to Hofstra with Yale, it’s CCN versus Yale.

The in-house opportunities are going to be better with a YLS degree, ditto for non-legal opportunities. When people on the street want to hire a top lawyer they tell their friends "I hired a Yale-educated lawyer" or a "Harvard-educated lawyer," not a "Northwestern-educated lawyer". The brand differentiation can have significant impacts as far as business development and getting staffed on matters (clients are much more excited to be dealing with YLS associates when paying outlandish rates).

Is the difference between YLS and CCN massive? No. Can you be successful as a CCN grad? Sure. But in the scheme of a career of a corporate lawyer $200k is chump change (especially given that most YLS/CCN admits are coming from relatively well off families), and so makes sense to grab the best opportunity you can.

[Anonymous User]

The bolded is said at places at which you don't remotely need a YLS degree to get a job. Indeed, it's pretty much evidence about how little it truly matters in most situations. Getting random, meaningless praise from a partner at a generic firm is def worth 200k.

They also all ended up at the same firm, even the sad lowly non-T14 grad, so truly all they’re getting is meaningless praise.

I’m currently a client of a few large law firms and if a partner walked into a meeting and told me where someone graduated from law school (unless they were an alum of my law school and were telling me because of that connection) I would find that to be bewildering behavior.

Totally disagree. Partners and clients absolutely care about and reference pedigree as a proxy for IQ and competence. Literally the first thing you check out on a bio on the website is what schools the person went to, which right away gives you a first impression of raw intelligence. Do you see Wachtell hiring a lot of Hofstra grads?

I don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with exactly. In the original posters example, they all DID end up at the same firm. So what did the expended $300k on the Yale degree win him or her, other than the partners praise? And this post isn’t comparing going to Hofstra with Yale, it’s CCN versus Yale.

The in-house opportunities are going to be better with a YLS degree, ditto for non-legal opportunities. When people on the street want to hire a top lawyer they tell their friends "I hired a Yale-educated lawyer" or a "Harvard-educated lawyer," not a "Northwestern-educated lawyer". The brand differentiation can have significant impacts as far as business development and getting staffed on matters (clients are much more excited to be dealing with YLS associates when paying outlandish rates).

Is the difference between YLS and CCN massive? No. Can you be successful as a CCN grad? Sure. But in the scheme of a career of a corporate lawyer $200k is chump change (especially given that most YLS/CCN admits are coming from relatively well off families), and so makes sense to grab the best opportunity you can.

very interesting. is it still chump change if one is only planning to practice law for, say, 20 years? maybe a second career thing?

[Anonymous User]

I know I'm late to the party here, but I will add my two cents as I faced a similar decision. I decided S over UChicago Ruby. I graduated with ~220k in debt, which would have been higher if I did not get fin aid at S. "Sticker" debt being ~300k at graduation sounds about right, maybe a little low given the increases in tuition.

Ended up probably slightly below median at S, but got multiple offers from big firms in DC, etc. Am currently clerking on COA, for a well-regarded but non-feeder judge in a major market where I was living pre-clerkship and want to live post. Can't disclose the situation in too many details, but I will say that I 100% would not have gotten this clerkship had I gone to UChicago. I could not apply to clerkships broadly because of family situation, so this worked out well for me. That being said, +200k of debt is a real burden. The pause on fed loan payments essentially is the only reason this clerkship was financially viable.

If your plan is to go biglaw => in-house, I would recommend taking a hard look at the scholarship. I decided on S because it had been a dream of mine to go there, I wanted to eliminate down-side risk, I wanted to live on the West Coast, I visited UChicago and felt immediately depressed, and I knew I would always regret it if I didn't go to S. Those things seemed worth the debt at the time. I go back and forth on that now. Making $215k as a first-year with no loans is essentially complete financial freedom. There is very little you have to say "no" to doing at that point for financial reasons. My looming monthly payments of ~3k are a huge factor in our financial decision-making, even with the higher-than-first-year comp I will get when the clerkship ends. But there's so many factors that go into this decision that only you can make the final call on what's best for you.

[nixy]

The in-house opportunities are going to be better with a YLS degree, ditto for non-legal opportunities. When people on the street want to hire a top lawyer they tell their friends "I hired a Yale-educated lawyer" or a "Harvard-educated lawyer," not a "Northwestern-educated lawyer". The brand differentiation can have significant impacts as far as business development and getting staffed on matters (clients are much more excited to be dealing with YLS associates when paying outlandish rates).

What is your basis for saying this? Like, specifically, what evidence do you have for this? I’m not saying you personally haven’t encountered someone who feels like this, but what basis do you have for speaking as broadly as you do here? So what actual evidence do you have about success in-house or in non-legal settings, or people on the street wanting to hire a name-brand lawyer etc? Like how do you quantify that?

[Anonymous User]

The in-house opportunities are going to be better with a YLS degree, ditto for non-legal opportunities. When people on the street want to hire a top lawyer they tell their friends "I hired a Yale-educated lawyer" or a "Harvard-educated lawyer," not a "Northwestern-educated lawyer". The brand differentiation can have significant impacts as far as business development and getting staffed on matters (clients are much more excited to be dealing with YLS associates when paying outlandish rates).

What is your basis for saying this? Like, specifically, what evidence do you have for this? I’m not saying you personally haven’t encountered someone who feels like this, but what basis do you have for speaking as broadly as you do here? So what actual evidence do you have about success in-house or in non-legal settings, or people on the street wanting to hire a name-brand lawyer etc? Like how do you quantify that?

Have been on calls with partners pitching to clients where they specifically reference pedigree of associates they propose to staff. Look at LinkedIn postings for in-house jobs and many mention things like "top academics". Been involved in helping mid-size companies handle bet-the-company litigation, and one of the things owners of the companies want is the "best" lawyer money can buy, and in their mind best = harvard or yale (usually harvard). Been involved in biglaw firms considering taking on retools, and seen much more openness to it for people with strong pedigree.

This is like arguing whether people are more impressed by a BMW or a Honda Accord...

[Dahl]

This is like arguing whether people are more impressed by a BMW or a Honda Accord...

People say a lot of ridiculous things around here, but this is pretty high up on the list of most ridiculous.

[The Lsat Airbender]

This is like arguing whether people are more impressed by a BMW or a Honda Accord...

OP could buy several BMWs with the money they'd save at Columbia

[Anonymous User]

This is like arguing whether people are more impressed by a BMW or a Honda Accord...

OP could buy several BMWs with the money they'd save at Columbia

I mean, is anyone turning down YLS/HLS for CCN if $$$ are equal? If not, then clearly HLS/YLS are just fundamentally better. That being the case, now depends on how much value $200k has to you. If you are planning to pursue $$$, and are not some save the whales public interest liberal, you are going to be able to make millions and millions of dollars over your career. Seems like a no brainer to get the top credential, if offered the option.

[nixy]

The in-house opportunities are going to be better with a YLS degree, ditto for non-legal opportunities. When people on the street want to hire a top lawyer they tell their friends "I hired a Yale-educated lawyer" or a "Harvard-educated lawyer," not a "Northwestern-educated lawyer". The brand differentiation can have significant impacts as far as business development and getting staffed on matters (clients are much more excited to be dealing with YLS associates when paying outlandish rates).

What is your basis for saying this? Like, specifically, what evidence do you have for this? I’m not saying you personally haven’t encountered someone who feels like this, but what basis do you have for speaking as broadly as you do here? So what actual evidence do you have about success in-house or in non-legal settings, or people on the street wanting to hire a name-brand lawyer etc? Like how do you quantify that?

Have been on calls with partners pitching to clients where they specifically reference pedigree of associates they propose to staff. Look at LinkedIn postings for in-house jobs and many mention things like "top academics". Been involved in helping mid-size companies handle bet-the-company litigation, and one of the things owners of the companies want is the "best" lawyer money can buy, and in their mind best = harvard or yale (usually harvard). Been involved in biglaw firms considering taking on retools, and seen much more openness to it for people with strong pedigree.

This is like arguing whether people are more impressed by a BMW or a Honda Accord...

lol yes, CCN, the Honda Accord of law schools.

I think there’s some measure of cognitive bias in your reception of these comments.

[ExpOriental]

The in-house opportunities are going to be better with a YLS degree, ditto for non-legal opportunities. When people on the street want to hire a top lawyer they tell their friends "I hired a Yale-educated lawyer" or a "Harvard-educated lawyer," not a "Northwestern-educated lawyer". The brand differentiation can have significant impacts as far as business development and getting staffed on matters (clients are much more excited to be dealing with YLS associates when paying outlandish rates).

What is your basis for saying this? Like, specifically, what evidence do you have for this? I’m not saying you personally haven’t encountered someone who feels like this, but what basis do you have for speaking as broadly as you do here? So what actual evidence do you have about success in-house or in non-legal settings, or people on the street wanting to hire a name-brand lawyer etc? Like how do you quantify that?

Have been on calls with partners pitching to clients where they specifically reference pedigree of associates they propose to staff. Look at LinkedIn postings for in-house jobs and many mention things like "top academics". Been involved in helping mid-size companies handle bet-the-company litigation, and one of the things owners of the companies want is the "best" lawyer money can buy, and in their mind best = harvard or yale (usually harvard). Been involved in biglaw firms considering taking on retools, and seen much more openness to it for people with strong pedigree.

This is like arguing whether people are more impressed by a BMW or a Honda Accord...

lol yes, CCN, the Honda Accord of law schools.

I think there’s some measure of cognitive bias in your reception of these comments.

Partner mentions Yale attendance on a pitch: "so glad I went to Yale, I knew that name value would pay dividends"

Partner mentions Columbia attendance on a pitch: "wow that's so sad, Columbia's name doesn't even speak for itself, the partner literally had to point it out to the client to get them to notice. I'm so glad I went to Yale."

[Anonymous User]

This is like arguing whether people are more impressed by a BMW or a Honda Accord...

OP could buy several BMWs with the money they'd save at Columbia

I mean, is anyone turning down YLS/HLS for CCN if $$$ are equal? If not, then clearly HLS/YLS are just fundamentally better. That being the case, now depends on how much value $200k has to you. If you are planning to pursue $$$, and are not some save the whales public interest liberal, you are going to be able to make millions and millions of dollars over your career. Seems like a no brainer to get the top credential, if offered the option.

I love that movie quote: "There are two types of people in the world, those who want money and those who want to save whales." Man, Clint Eastwood knew how to deliver those lines.

[Anonymous User]

The in-house opportunities are going to be better with a YLS degree, ditto for non-legal opportunities. When people on the street want to hire a top lawyer they tell their friends "I hired a Yale-educated lawyer" or a "Harvard-educated lawyer," not a "Northwestern-educated lawyer". The brand differentiation can have significant impacts as far as business development and getting staffed on matters (clients are much more excited to be dealing with YLS associates when paying outlandish rates).

This is so vague as to be worthless.

What in-house opportunities and non-legal opportunities are you referring to? "People on the street" absolutely do not know that YLS beats out, say, CLS or Chicago.

I would love for someone making claims that YLS preftige somehow "opens doors" in the private sector to start being specific about what that means. Otherwise, it sounds like 0L posturing.

And, as others have noted, $200k is not $200k. It is $1.5M, which gets you another summer house or many, many nice vacations. Or most of a Bugatti Veyron/several Phantoms.