What's Happening to Incompetent Corporate Associates These Days? Forum

[benesein]

My son-in-law is a high school math teacher. Makes about 40,000 a year. Works about 50+ hours a week, including time at school, time doing lesson plans and grading papers. So teaching may not be the "lifestyle" you are looking for. Yes being a lawyer requires you work 50+ hours a week too, but at least you are compensated well for it.

[Anonymous User]

My son-in-law is a high school math teacher. Makes about 40,000 a year. Works about 50+ hours a week, including time at school, time doing lesson plans and grading papers. So teaching may not be the "lifestyle" you are looking for. Yes being a lawyer requires you work 50+ hours a week too, but at least you are compensated well for it.

How does he spend his summers? And the two weeks off for xmas, week off at thanksgiving, etc? Not saying he's not working hard, but I suspect he's also not putting in 2500 hours over the course of the year.

[LittleRedCorvette]

My son-in-law is a high school math teacher. Makes about 40,000 a year. Works about 50+ hours a week, including time at school, time doing lesson plans and grading papers. So teaching may not be the "lifestyle" you are looking for. Yes being a lawyer requires you work 50+ hours a week too, but at least you are compensated well for it.

How does he spend his summers? And the two weeks off for xmas, week off at thanksgiving, etc? Not saying he's not working hard, but I suspect he's also not putting in 2500 hours over the course of the year.

Or receiving emails literally 24/7 (or having the possibility) -- the inability to "unplug" from biglaw is a stress that people with [basically any other job] cannot understand.

Though don't get me wrong, teachers don't get paid enough.

[Elston Gunn]

Biglaw does suck, but working a shitty (but hardly ditch digging) job for 4-6 years so you can be qualified for a subsequent career of 9-6ish jobs that pay low-to-mid six figures is honestly a fantastic life outcome. It’s the litigators who have it toughest in the long run.

I personally wouldn’t want to risk getting fired in a recession and losing my very good chance at the in-house outcome. Just from a pure lifestyle standpoint, I’d much rather be an in-house attorney than a JAG (a hard job to get if you haven’t been in the military, much less if you’re a corp associate!) or a high school teacher.

[Anonymous User]

Biglaw does suck, but working a shitty (but hardly ditch digging) job for 4-6 years so you can be qualified for a subsequent career of 9-6ish jobs that pay low-to-mid six figures is honestly a fantastic life outcome. It’s the litigators who have it toughest in the long run.

Speaking as a second year, do you even have to make it 4-6 years these days? I've seen a lot of folks at my firm leaving after 2-2.5 years to go in-house to generalist corporate counsel/legal counsel positions. Lateraling once as a junior in this market also seems like a no-brainer to get some extra cash if you don't plan to stick long in biglaw.

The only way I'm getting through this is knowing that a life of working mostly 9-5 (or close to it) and making $200K+ is not far away, no clue how the litigators are managing it.

[SGTslaughter]

I'm skeptical about the ability to get 8 hours every day, no more no less. Especially when you get a reputation as a slacker. Also can't really see how you can just turn everything off at 2pm until the next morning. Even in a normal job that's not possible. It hey, if this person cracked the code, more power to them, for the next few months at least.

Also not convinced an organic farm is feasible backup plan.

I did not say I only worked 8 hours a day. I said I turned down extra work if I am already reaching 8 and do not volunteer for work that is beyond the normal work day. You can feel free to act like that's unreasonable but it is an expectation most people have for their jobs -- having some time to themselves.

I like how all of you are ignoring the options to become teachers or work for the government that I mentioned as though I said my only plan was exclusively to farm. Do you want to make fun of JAG or teaching high school and then applying for forgiveness after? Like those are unrealistic options to big law? Many people who farm land locally also own that same land. That sounds like a better deal than a 600 sq foot condo in a city now teeming with infections.

To me, it reads like all the commenters want to justify your choices to remain unhappy with your single lifetimes on earth and you are choosing to do this by making fun of or ignoring the options to do perfectly respectable professions that may not make 6 figures. :/ womp womp. You are all so enlightened and not at all classist. It definitely doesn't sound like you all look down on the people who serve you or help make society run in "less prestigious jobs." I bet you're all really fun people to be around in real life.

I'm not justifying my choices here, but I do think that you're totally full of shit. Why did you "almost" do JAG and not just do JAG if you're so up on it compared to biglaw? Why didn't you become a teacher and apply for loan forgiveness already if that's such a great option for you?

[SGTslaughter]

Biglaw does suck, but working a shitty (but hardly ditch digging) job for 4-6 years so you can be qualified for a subsequent career of 9-6ish jobs that pay low-to-mid six figures is honestly a fantastic life outcome. It’s the litigators who have it toughest in the long run.

Speaking as a second year, do you even have to make it 4-6 years these days? I've seen a lot of folks at my firm leaving after 2-2.5 years to go in-house to generalist corporate counsel/legal counsel positions. Lateraling once as a junior in this market also seems like a no-brainer to get some extra cash if you don't plan to stick long in biglaw.

The only way I'm getting through this is knowing that a life of working mostly 9-5 (or close to it) and making $200K+ is not far away, no clue how the litigators are managing it.

2-2.5 years is doable, but you're taking (even more of) a massive salary hit that will take you years to get back.

Litigators have it better than corp folks at a lot of places. At my firm, their average billables are a lot less and their hours are just way more predictable.

[Buglaw]

Biglaw does suck, but working a shitty (but hardly ditch digging) job for 4-6 years so you can be qualified for a subsequent career of 9-6ish jobs that pay low-to-mid six figures is honestly a fantastic life outcome. It’s the litigators who have it toughest in the long run.

Speaking as a second year, do you even have to make it 4-6 years these days? I've seen a lot of folks at my firm leaving after 2-2.5 years to go in-house to generalist corporate counsel/legal counsel positions. Lateraling once as a junior in this market also seems like a no-brainer to get some extra cash if you don't plan to stick long in biglaw.

The only way I'm getting through this is knowing that a life of working mostly 9-5 (or close to it) and making $200K+ is not far away, no clue how the litigators are managing it.

2-2.5 years is doable, but you're taking (even more of) a massive salary hit that will take you years to get back.

Litigators have it better than corp folks at a lot of places. At my firm, their average billables are a lot less and their hours are just way more predictable.

edit because I apparently can't read.

[Anonymous User]

I'm skeptical about the ability to get 8 hours every day, no more no less. Especially when you get a reputation as a slacker. Also can't really see how you can just turn everything off at 2pm until the next morning. Even in a normal job that's not possible. It hey, if this person cracked the code, more power to them, for the next few months at least.

Also not convinced an organic farm is feasible backup plan.

I did not say I only worked 8 hours a day. I said I turned down extra work if I am already reaching 8 and do not volunteer for work that is beyond the normal work day. You can feel free to act like that's unreasonable but it is an expectation most people have for their jobs -- having some time to themselves.

I like how all of you are ignoring the options to become teachers or work for the government that I mentioned as though I said my only plan was exclusively to farm. Do you want to make fun of JAG or teaching high school and then applying for forgiveness after? Like those are unrealistic options to big law? Many people who farm land locally also own that same land. That sounds like a better deal than a 600 sq foot condo in a city now teeming with infections.

To me, it reads like all the commenters want to justify your choices to remain unhappy with your single lifetimes on earth and you are choosing to do this by making fun of or ignoring the options to do perfectly respectable professions that may not make 6 figures. :/ womp womp. You are all so enlightened and not at all classist. It definitely doesn't sound like you all look down on the people who serve you or help make society run in "less prestigious jobs." I bet you're all really fun people to be around in real life.

I'm not justifying my choices here, but I do think that you're totally full of shit. Why did you "almost" do JAG and not just do JAG if you're so up on it compared to biglaw? Why didn't you become a teacher and apply for loan forgiveness already if that's such a great option for you?

Hi, thanks for saying I'm full of shit. Why are you so upset w/ what I'm saying? Do you maybe need to take a step back and consider your own life? I never insulted you, not one time. Nor did I insult anything personal to you! So, it's odd you've chosen to insult me and doesn't say positive things about who you are as a human being. But, neither here nor there as it's your problem to deal with who you are -- not mine.

FWIW I chose not to do JAG because my significant other is already in the military and if we were both in, they would be extremely unlikely to separate us which poses problems for his trajectory as where he would need to be stationed to complete his training is JAG light (it being Jag light would pose an issue for me. Rank beyond 03 is earned, not given and JAG officers already start high enough in the ranking system that promotion would not be guaranteed from there). I'm also incredibly prone to motion sickness, so certain possibilities close to my SO would not be my first choice. But, I was going to go through with it via recruiters prior to joining the firm I am currently at and would be happy to go be motion sick day in, day out in order to avoid RTO. Peace and love to you, even though you came off as a huge jerk!

[Anonymous User]

I'm skeptical about the ability to get 8 hours every day, no more no less. Especially when you get a reputation as a slacker. Also can't really see how you can just turn everything off at 2pm until the next morning. Even in a normal job that's not possible. It hey, if this person cracked the code, more power to them, for the next few months at least.

Also not convinced an organic farm is feasible backup plan.

I did not say I only worked 8 hours a day. I said I turned down extra work if I am already reaching 8 and do not volunteer for work that is beyond the normal work day. You can feel free to act like that's unreasonable but it is an expectation most people have for their jobs -- having some time to themselves.

I like how all of you are ignoring the options to become teachers or work for the government that I mentioned as though I said my only plan was exclusively to farm. Do you want to make fun of JAG or teaching high school and then applying for forgiveness after? Like those are unrealistic options to big law? Many people who farm land locally also own that same land. That sounds like a better deal than a 600 sq foot condo in a city now teeming with infections.

To me, it reads like all the commenters want to justify your choices to remain unhappy with your single lifetimes on earth and you are choosing to do this by making fun of or ignoring the options to do perfectly respectable professions that may not make 6 figures. :/ womp womp. You are all so enlightened and not at all classist. It definitely doesn't sound like you all look down on the people who serve you or help make society run in "less prestigious jobs." I bet you're all really fun people to be around in real life.

I'm not justifying my choices here, but I do think that you're totally full of shit. Why did you "almost" do JAG and not just do JAG if you're so up on it compared to biglaw? Why didn't you become a teacher and apply for loan forgiveness already if that's such a great option for you?

Hi, thanks for saying I'm full of shit. Why are you so upset w/ what I'm saying? Do you maybe need to take a step back and consider your own life? I never insulted you, not one time. Nor did I insult anything personal to you! So, it's odd you've chosen to insult me and doesn't say positive things about who you are as a human being. But, neither here nor there as it's your problem to deal with who you are -- not mine.

FWIW I chose not to do JAG because my significant other is already in the military and if we were both in, they would be extremely unlikely to separate us which poses problems for his trajectory as where he would need to be stationed to complete his training is JAG light (it being Jag light would pose an issue for me. Rank beyond 03 is earned, not given and JAG officers already start high enough in the ranking system that promotion would not be guaranteed from there). I'm also incredibly prone to motion sickness, so certain possibilities close to my SO would not be my first choice. But, I was going to go through with it via recruiters prior to joining the firm I am currently at and would be happy to go be motion sick day in, day out in order to avoid RTO. I may join once my SO is finished with his leg of training; doing what he does has always been his dream. I figure I can stick it out for a bit longer so he has the easiest shot at being accepted into the program/training he needs to reach his dream. Peace and love to you, even though you came off as a huge jerk!

[Anonymous User]

delete unnecessary repost/double comment.

[Anonymous User]

delete double comment/repost.

[Anonymous User]

delete double comment/repost (not sure how this posted 3x?)

[Anonymous User]

delete

[Anonymous User]

Biglaw does suck, but working a shitty (but hardly ditch digging) job for 4-6 years so you can be qualified for a subsequent career of 9-6ish jobs that pay low-to-mid six figures is honestly a fantastic life outcome. It’s the litigators who have it toughest in the long run.

Speaking as a second year, do you even have to make it 4-6 years these days? I've seen a lot of folks at my firm leaving after 2-2.5 years to go in-house to generalist corporate counsel/legal counsel positions. Lateraling once as a junior in this market also seems like a no-brainer to get some extra cash if you don't plan to stick long in biglaw.

The only way I'm getting through this is knowing that a life of working mostly 9-5 (or close to it) and making $200K+ is not far away, no clue how the litigators are managing it.

2-2.5 years is doable, but you're taking (even more of) a massive salary hit that will take you years to get back.

Litigators have it better than corp folks at a lot of places. At my firm, their average billables are a lot less and their hours are just way more predictable.

*cries as a mid-level corp litigator that has been trying to go in house for 1+ year and has sent over 100 applications.

Yes it's probably true that my pain is more spread out and predictable than transactional folks, but 5-6 years of working most weekends and many holidays still hurts.