Getting Rich as a Big Law Lawyer Forum

[Anonymous User]

Class of 2018 TX.

After signing bonus and year end bonus this year, net worth will be maybe 600k. I graduated with a net worth of -150k from student loans and loans to family. No inheritance or other unusual assets (I do own my home which appreciated a lot) like crypto and if market performed well could be shy of a million by end of next year.

It's not complicated to build wealth. You just save money and buy assets. That people think it is impossible is kind of wild; you just need to save money and get a little lucky with a few good years in the market.

Some of the expenses listed previously strike me as a little aggressive. If you don't want to save the money and it makes you happy to spend it, that's fine, but I think too often people look at their spending and lifestyle and assume that everyone is spending that much.

[Anonymous User]

If you manage to spend less than $2k a month in those cities (prepandemic — obviously during quarantine life was a lot cheaper), you’re living under a rock.

How to hit $2k a month in NYC? Incredibly easily:

That’s $2,420 a month NOT INCLUDING gifts, plane tickets and lodgings for weddings and bach parties, visiting family, vacation, any nice purchases or hobbies (cameras, athletic wear, speakers, whatever), and assuming only two nights a week out, which probably isn’t representative for many folks in their late 20s.

At the outset, I want to stress that the question is NOT whether spending money in NYC is easy. It is. The question is whether the savings/spending described by those who have built up wealth are "realistic." The answer to that question is also "yes," as long as you live conservatively. And the expenditures described are not "conservative" in any way, nor do you need to live under a "rock" to save. Similarly, people can spend their money however they want, and should generally be able to without being judged. But what has been normalized within certain sectors of BL (and IB) does not reflect what is actually necessary to spend.

$200 - gym

Assuming you cannot get a gym membership through work (which seems odd), you can easily get memberships for $40-50/month, if not cheaper. You can also get at-home equipment for even less per month over time.

$1200 - going out to dinner/drinks twice a week, assuming cooking at home or seamless from the office the rest of the time ($150/night twice a week for four weeks).

What the hell restaurants do you go to where $150/night is standard? You can go to literally thousands of restaurants and get dinner and 1/2 drinks for $30-40 plus tax.

And anyone going out more than once or twice a month is not living "conservatively" in the first place.

Plus, groceries are cheap. Cereal or fruit for breakfast, sandwiches/veggies+hummus for lunch, and prepped meals for dinner (including dump-instant pot recipes that give like 7 meals for $40 total) easily bring the grocery bill to ~$300-350 per month, which amount includes a lot of wiggle room. You can get down to less than $100/month by eating cheap foods like imported Italian pasta (~$1-2 per meal) and pasta sauce ($0.50-1 per meal), rice and beans (less than $0.30 per meal), etc., which also require less than a minute of active prep time. By the way, these costs reflect getting pretty much everything from Whole Foods and delivered to your apartment.

This does not include ubers/cabs, cover fees, ect., and obviously excludes high end dining / Michelin star restaurants

Anything involving uber or cover fees is automatically not "conservative" spending. High end dining and Michelin star restaurants are similarly not "conservative."

To compare, $24.50/month gets you 3 movies a week at AMC theaters with no restrictions. I myself love opera/classical music generally get season subscriptions (taking advantage of young adult discounts), but I do not delude myself into viewing those things as "conservative" or simply part of the cost of living.

$800 - groceries / standard household items

See above. There is no need for pretty much any standard household items beyond basic kitchen equipment and a Swiffer, or Roomba as a cleaning investment, if you prefer.


Again, people can spend their money however they want. And again, the question is what constitutes "conservative" spending and "feasible" savings. Just because you can spend a lot does not mean that you have to. And going out several times a week, spending $150 on dinner/drinks, and going to Michelin star restaurants is neither obligatory nor "conservative."

And if doing cheap things like walking around Central Park, playing games with friends in a cafe or apartment, or going to movies means "living under a rock," so be it. I can grab a glass of wine for $10 and hear live jazz music for 3+ hours at a restaurant near my apartment every week. Not sure where you are eating/drinking that regularly costs $150.

[Anonymous User]

Here we go again with folks with 500K plus NW as 3/4/5th years with like 20 + annualized return over the past few years saying it is not that complicated to build wealth.

[Anonymous User]

Here we go again with folks with 500K plus NW as 3/4/5th years with like 20 + annualized return over the past few years saying it is not that complicated to build wealth.

Lol and their responses being "well, we had loans!" Fuck off, we all have loans, but none of us are reaping the insane last decade of the stock market that C/O 2011 folks had. What privileged ghouls.

[Anonymous User]

Here we go again with folks with 500K plus NW as 3/4/5th years with like 20 + annualized return over the past few years saying it is not that complicated to build wealth.

Lol and their responses being "well, we had loans!" Fuck off, we all have loans, but none of us are reaping the insane last decade of the stock market that C/O 2011 folks had. What privileged ghouls.

Again, as one of those c/o 2011 folks, market performance accounts for far less than half of my nw. It starts with saving—without that, you have no money to take advantage of the freaking market. Is the market going to repeat this performance over the next 10 years? No, probably not. But are you going to build wealth if you think that the above poster’s ridiculous list of spending is automatic and the only way to live? No, probably not, either. There’s no freaking excuse to not build wealth with a BigLaw salary.

And you’re conveniently just ignoring the undeniable and very public, even taking inflation into account, increase in comp. Someone actually claimed it was “flame,” which is just objectively incorrect.

Own your decisions. Or don’t and put in your time in BigLaw with nothing to show for it other than a lot of miles on the hedonic treadmill, no skin off my back either way.

[Anonymous User]

If you manage to spend less than $2k a month in those cities (prepandemic — obviously during quarantine life was a lot cheaper), you’re living under a rock.

How to hit $2k a month in NYC? Incredibly easily:

That’s $2,420 a month NOT INCLUDING gifts, plane tickets and lodgings for weddings and bach parties, visiting family, vacation, any nice purchases or hobbies (cameras, athletic wear, speakers, whatever), and assuming only two nights a week out, which probably isn’t representative for many folks in their late 20s.

At the outset, I want to stress that the question is NOT whether spending money in NYC is easy. It is. The question is whether the savings/spending described are "realistic." The answer to that question is also "yes," as long as you live conservatively. And the expenditures described are not "conservative" in any way, nor do you need to live under a "rock" to save. Similarly, people can spend their money however they want, and should generally be able to without being judged. But what has been normalized within certain sectors of BL (and IB) does not reflect what is actually necessary to spend.

$200 - gym

Assuming you cannot get a gym membership through work (which seems odd), you can easily get memberships for $40-50/month, if not cheaper. You can also get at-home equipment for even less per month over time.

$1200 - going out to dinner/drinks twice a week, assuming cooking at home or seamless from the office the rest of the time ($150/night twice a week for four weeks).

What the hell restaurants do you go to where $150/night is standard? You can go to literally thousands of restaurants and get dinner and 1/2 drinks for $30-40 plus tax.

And anyone going out more than once or twice a month is not living "conservatively" in the first place.

Plus, groceries are cheap. Cereal or fruit for breakfast, sandwiches/veggies+hummus for lunch, and prepped meals for dinner (including dump-instant pot recipes that give like 7 meals for $40 total) easily bring the grocery bill to ~$300-350 per month, which amount includes a lot of wiggle room. You can get down to less than $100/month by eating cheap foods like imported Italian pasta (~$1-2 per meal) and pasta sauce ($0.50-1 per meal), rice and beans (less than $0.30 per meal), etc., which also require less than a minute of active prep time. By the way, these costs reflect getting pretty much everything from Whole Foods and delivered to your apartment.

This does not include ubers/cabs, cover fees, ect., and obviously excludes high end dining / Michelin star restaurants

Anything involving uber or cover fees is automatically not "conservative" spending. High end dining and Michelin star restaurants are similarly not "conservative."

To compare, $24.50/month gets you 3 movies a week at AMC theaters with no restrictions. I myself love opera/classical music generally get season subscriptions (taking advantage of young adult discounts), but I do not delude myself into viewing those things as "conservative" or simply part of the cost of living.

$800 - groceries / standard household items

See above. There is no need for pretty much any standard household items beyond basic kitchen equipment and a Swiffer, or Roomba as a cleaning investment, if you prefer.


Again, people can spend their money however they want. And again, the question is what constitutes "conservative" spending and "feasible" savings. Just because you can spend a lot does not mean that you have to. And going out several times a week, spending $150 on dinner/drinks, and going to Michelin star restaurants is neither obligatory nor "conservative."

And if doing cheap things like walking around Central Park, playing games with friends in a cafe or apartment, or going to movies means "living under a rock," so be it. I can grab a glass of wine for $10 and hear live jazz music for 3+ hours at a restaurant near my apartment every week. Not sure where you are eating/drinking that regularly costs $150.

Suffice to say that this feels like a romanticized version of a bygone affordable life in NYC that does not map on to the experience of most biglaw attorneys, and we’re going to have to agree to disagree about what’s realistic here. When giving advice about what kind of savings can be accrued working at a firm, living on marinara and rice and beans just isn’t consistent with the lived experience of attorneys in their late 20s. I always found it tough to escape dinner with friends with a bill lower than $60pp, usually closer to $100; add that to an after dinner bar tab with a couple beers and cocktails and a cab home, and you’re looking at a $120-$150 evening. Some nights will be cheaper, others splashier - it’s a median figure to account for a wide range of variables (including personal generosity). None of that is particularly luxurious. Often there would be ktown karaoke or some live music or, for dates with my s/o, a performance. And I’ve declined my fair share of weddings/parties/expensive events, but people can’t do so every time.

I don’t think my social scene was at all abnormal or excessive. Sure, there are less expensive ways to dine and drink, and you can construct in theory a low budget to maximize personal savings, but it’s not credible to suggest that is how people really live and what their costs are really like.

[Anonymous User]

Also lol at groceries being “cheap” in NYC. Have you been to a Morton Williams in the past decade

[Anonymous User]

Here we go again with folks with 500K plus NW as 3/4/5th years with like 20 + annualized return over the past few years saying it is not that complicated to build wealth.

Lol and their responses being "well, we had loans!" Fuck off, we all have loans, but none of us are reaping the insane last decade of the stock market that C/O 2011 folks had. What privileged ghouls.

Again, as one of those c/o 2011 folks, market performance accounts for far less than half of my nw. It starts with saving—without that, you have no money to take advantage of the freaking market. Is the market going to repeat this performance over the next 10 years? No, probably not. But are you going to build wealth if you think that the above poster’s ridiculous list of spending is automatic and the only way to live? No, probably not, either. There’s no freaking excuse to not build wealth with a BigLaw salary.

And you’re conveniently just ignoring the undeniable and very public, even taking inflation into account, increase in comp. Someone actually claimed it was “flame,” which is just objectively incorrect.

Own your decisions. Or don’t and put in your time in BigLaw with nothing to show for it other than a lot of miles on the hedonic treadmill, no skin off my back either way.

Point is not that controlling expenses and saving aren’t important to build wealth - obviously they are - it is just that NW figures for those who are mid/seniors now who managed to invest are “inflated” (ie substantially higher than what would be expected from the “expected” 7-8% returns from equities/investments) so these folks are “lucky” in the sense that they just appear better savers and investors and those who missed out/who are starting now probably wont be able to repeat even if they save/invest at the same rate.

[Anonymous User]

Suffice to say that this feels like a romanticized version of a bygone affordable life in NYC that does not map on to the experience of most biglaw attorneys, and we’re going to have to agree to disagree about what’s realistic here. When giving advice about what kind of savings can be accrued working at a firm, living on marinara and rice and beans just isn’t consistent with the lived experience of attorneys in their late 20s.

The question is what is "realistic." That people generally choose not to do something does not mean it is unrealistic. And I am not sure why you think living on spaghetti & meatballs and rice & beans is unrealistic when it is absolutely common for millions of adults and families in this country alone.

I always found it tough to escape dinner with friends with a bill lower than $60pp, usually closer to $100; add that to an after dinner bar tab with a couple beers and cocktails and a cab home, and you’re looking at a $120-$150 evening.

Again, there are thousands of restaurants that have entrees costing $15-25 (if not cheaper) and drinks $10-15, which you are not required to purchase in the first place. Going to the bar itself is not necessary. Getting multiple beers/cocktails is not necessary. Taking an uber/taxi home is not necessary.

It is, frankly, shocking to me how little agency you seem to give yourself. You are aware that no one is forcing you to do any of these things, correct? Or that you could do them and get an appetizer and one or two drinks if you felt compelled to make an appearance? And that you can discreetly ask bartenders for soda lime if you feel like you need to have a drink in hand for social appearances?

The number of restaurants where you get out for $100 or even $60 is a significant minority of restaurants.

None of that is particularly luxurious.

You are absolutely in another plane of existence if you think $100 pp for one night is not luxurious for 90+% of the American population. I have no idea how you can be so detached from reality. My parents are millionaires in a high COL city and do not like spending $50 for both of them at a restaurant. They prefer to get out for $20-25 by going to happy hours. I know many BL people who are similar.

I don’t think my social scene was at all abnormal or excessive. Sure, there are less expensive ways to dine and drink, and you can construct in theory a low budget to maximize personal savings, but it’s not credible to suggest that is how people really live and what their costs are really like.

Again, what is normalized is not equivalent to what is possible.

Your social scene may not be abnormal, but I daresay it is more excessive than it is conservative. And I am not judging that. I am judging, however, the sense of entitlement, lack of self-awareness, and lack of self-control it takes to spend in such a sumptuous manner while daring to complain that saving is somehow burdensome. I am not sure why you think "everyone else does it" is in any way relevant or, frankly, has any bearing on your own budget whatsoever. A lot of people make bad financial decisions. That does not mean that those decisions should be considered "good" or even "acceptable" if people want to save money. Not everyone does--that is fine. But by spending voluntarily in a way inconsistent with saving, you forfeit the right to complain about how difficult saving is.

[Anonymous User]

Also lol at groceries being “cheap” in NYC. Have you been to a Morton Williams in the past decade

Morton Williams is very expensive, even compared to Whole Foods. And Whole Foods delivers.

[LBJ's Hair]

I mean, I could take girlfriend to Halal Guys, live in a studio in Flushing and wipe my ass with paper towels I stole from the subway station bathroom, but that seems like a deeply unpleasant way to live my life

[Anonymous User]

Here we go again with folks with 500K plus NW as 3/4/5th years with like 20 + annualized return over the past few years saying it is not that complicated to build wealth.

Lol and their responses being "well, we had loans!" Fuck off, we all have loans, but none of us are reaping the insane last decade of the stock market that C/O 2011 folks had. What privileged ghouls.

Again, as one of those c/o 2011 folks, market performance accounts for far less than half of my nw. It starts with saving—without that, you have no money to take advantage of the freaking market. Is the market going to repeat this performance over the next 10 years? No, probably not. But are you going to build wealth if you think that the above poster’s ridiculous list of spending is automatic and the only way to live? No, probably not, either. There’s no freaking excuse to not build wealth with a BigLaw salary.

And you’re conveniently just ignoring the undeniable and very public, even taking inflation into account, increase in comp. Someone actually claimed it was “flame,” which is just objectively incorrect.

Own your decisions. Or don’t and put in your time in BigLaw with nothing to show for it other than a lot of miles on the hedonic treadmill, no skin off my back either way.

Point is not that controlling expenses and saving aren’t important to build wealth - obviously they are - it is just that NW figures for those who are mid/seniors now who managed to invest are “inflated” (ie substantially higher than what would be expected from the “expected” 7-8% returns from equities/investments) so these folks are “lucky” in the sense that they just appear better savers and investors and those who missed out/who are starting now probably wont be able to repeat even if they save/invest at the same rate.

That would be fair with respect to seniors that discuss this stuff and don’t acknowledge the role the hot market played. Totally agree. That’s not really the tone of a lot of these posts though, you have to admit.

[LBJ's Hair]

I mean, I could take girlfriend to Halal Guys, live in a studio in Flushing and wipe my ass with paper towels I stole from the subway station bathroom, but that seems like a deeply unpleasant way to live my life

to give a less snarky response - the millions of people who (relatively) happily live their lives at the price points Anon above is describing do not live in Manhattan, and trying to do so in the highest-COL city in the country is an immiserating experience. there's no "value" here - things that are "cheap" generally suck (low quality, inconvenience, w/e)

[Anonymous User]

I mean, I could take girlfriend to Halal Guys, live in a studio in Flushing and wipe my ass with paper towels I stole from the subway station bathroom, but that seems like a deeply unpleasant way to live my life

Person you wanted to hear from. I am not dating, but my close friends who are generally get prepared food from a supermarket and then have movie night in their apartment; sometimes they cook up some Costco/Trader Joe's food as well. The non-BL member of one married couple I know has a less hours-intensive job, so he stays home and cooks. Another married couple generally orders Dominos/Chipotle and then stays in. No, I am not exaggerating.

There are like three or four sitdown Italian restaurants within 10 minutes from my apartment. I have eaten at all of them with two beers/drinks for about $40 per person.

I am not sure why anyone here thinks that spending $150+ on a date night meal with any regularity is at all representative of American dating.

Did everyone here grow up independently wealthy or something? Has anyone lived in someplace other than NYC? The spending described in this thread is legit crazy. Even couples I know who have their receptions at Michelin star restaurants still generally eat at home 95% of the time.

[Anonymous User]

Suffice to say that this feels like a romanticized version of a bygone affordable life in NYC that does not map on to the experience of most biglaw attorneys, and we’re going to have to agree to disagree about what’s realistic here. When giving advice about what kind of savings can be accrued working at a firm, living on marinara and rice and beans just isn’t consistent with the lived experience of attorneys in their late 20s.

The question is what is "realistic." That people generally choose not to do something does not mean it is unrealistic. And I am not sure why you think living on spaghetti & meatballs and rice & beans is unrealistic when it is absolutely common for millions of adults and families in this country alone.

I always found it tough to escape dinner with friends with a bill lower than $60pp, usually closer to $100; add that to an after dinner bar tab with a couple beers and cocktails and a cab home, and you’re looking at a $120-$150 evening.

Again, there are thousands of restaurants that have entrees costing $15-25 (if not cheaper) and drinks $10-15, which you are not required to purchase in the first place. Going to the bar itself is not necessary. Getting multiple beers/cocktails is not necessary. Taking an uber/taxi home is not necessary.

It is, frankly, shocking to me how little agency you seem to give yourself. You are aware that no one is forcing you to do any of these things, correct? Or that you could do them and get an appetizer and one or two drinks if you felt compelled to make an appearance? And that you can discreetly ask bartenders for soda lime if you feel like you need to have a drink in hand for social appearances?

The number of restaurants where you get out for $100 or even $60 is a significant minority of restaurants.

None of that is particularly luxurious.

You are absolutely in another plane of existence if you think $100 pp for one night is not luxurious for 90+% of the American population. I have no idea how you can be so detached from reality. My parents are millionaires in a high COL city and do not like spending $50 for both of them at a restaurant. They prefer to get out for $20-25 by going to happy hours. I know many BL people who are similar.

I don’t think my social scene was at all abnormal or excessive. Sure, there are less expensive ways to dine and drink, and you can construct in theory a low budget to maximize personal savings, but it’s not credible to suggest that is how people really live and what their costs are really like.

Again, what is normalized is not equivalent to what is possible.

Your social scene may not be abnormal, but I daresay it is more excessive than it is conservative. And I am not judging that. I am judging, however, the sense of entitlement, lack of self-awareness, and lack of self-control it takes to spend in such a sumptuous manner and while daring to complain that saving is somehow burdensome. I am not sure why you think "everyone else does it" is in any way relevant or, frankly, has any bearing on your own budget whatsoever. A lot of people make bad financial decisions. That does not mean that those decisions should be considered "good" or even "acceptable" if people want to save money. Not everyone does--that is fine. But by spending voluntarily in a way inconsistent with saving, you forfeit the right to complain about how difficult saving is.

Not the OP you are responding to (and I am the type of person who always order the cheapest thing on the menu and hate spending more than necessary on food/drinks) and I am all in for being frugal but the numbers you are throwing out aren't really realistic for meals/drinks (once you add taxes and tips) in NYC.

[Anonymous User]

to give a less snarky response - the millions of people who (relatively) happily live their lives at the price points Anon above is describing do not live in Manhattan, and trying to do so in the highest-COL city in the country is an immiserating experience. there's no "value" here - things that are "cheap" generally suck (low quality, inconvenience, w/e)

OP. I live in Manhattan. I can cook nutritious food at home. You speak as if home-cooked food is "immiserating." I am sorry that you have only experienced shitty home cooking.

[Anonymous User]

Not the OP you are responding to (and I am the type of person who always order the cheapest thing on the menu and hate spending more than necessary on food/drinks) and I am all in for being frugal but the numbers you are throwing out aren't really realistic for meals/drinks (once you add taxes and tips) in NYC.

OP. I live in Manhattan. The numbers are literally my own expenditures. And they are higher than the actual average because they do not reflect restaurants that are typically cheaper, e.g., local Thai/Szechuan/Korean/etc. places. You can also get a great bowl of ramen for ~$20 or cheaper, plus house sake for ~$8, which would be at most $40 with tax and tip.

This is in addition to the obvious truism that eating out is always a choice in the first place.

[LBJ's Hair]

I mean, I could take girlfriend to Halal Guys, live in a studio in Flushing and wipe my ass with paper towels I stole from the subway station bathroom, but that seems like a deeply unpleasant way to live my life

Person you wanted to hear from. I am not dating, but my close friends who are generally get prepared food from a supermarket and then have movie night in their apartment; sometimes they cook up some Costco/Trader Joe's food as well. The non-BL member of one married couple I know has a less hours-intensive job, so he stays home and cooks. Another married couple generally orders Dominos/Chipotle and then stays in. No, I am not exaggerating.

There are like three or four sitdown Italian restaurants within 10 minutes from my apartment. I have eaten at all of them with two beers/drinks for about $40 per person.

I am not sure why anyone here thinks that spending $150+ on a date night meal with any regularity is at all representative of American dating.

Did everyone here grow up independently wealthy or something? Has anyone lived in someplace other than NYC? The spending described in this thread is legit crazy. Even couples I know who have their receptions at Michelin star restaurants still generally eat at home 95% of the time.

yes. which is why if I wanted to do what you're describing I would leave this city. b/c NYC is the worst place in the country to live cheap

[Anonymous User]

yes. which is why if I wanted to do what you're describing I would leave this city. b/c NYC is the worst place on earth to live cheap.

It may be. That does not mean that living cheaply is impossible or that doing so somehow leads to some insufferable or subhuman existence. Which in turn means that spending $2k per month on eating/drinking out alone is, unsurprisingly, a choice.

[Anonymous User]

Not to mention that especially in the current legal climate, living in nyc is itself absolutely a choice in itself. Another thing c/o 2011 didn’t have quite as much of—geographic mobility. That said, doesn’t change the fact that saving meaningful amounts is totally doable in nyc.

[Anonymous User]

Not the OP you are responding to (and I am the type of person who always order the cheapest thing on the menu and hate spending more than necessary on food/drinks) and I am all in for being frugal but the numbers you are throwing out aren't really realistic for meals/drinks (once you add taxes and tips) in NYC.

OP. I live in Manhattan. The numbers are literally my own expenditures. And they are higher than the actual average because they do not reflect restaurants that are typically cheaper, e.g., local Thai/Szechuan/Korean/etc. places. You can also get a great bowl of ramen for ~$20 or cheaper, plus house sake for ~$8, which would be at most $40 with tax and tip.

This is in addition to the obvious truism that eating out is always a choice in the first place.

Right, 20 bucks for a bowl of ramen and local Asian places that sell shitty/low quality food for 15 bucks (as an Asian I find them ridiculously expensive for quality) - both of which I find very expensive and overpriced for the quality/type of food you get. The fact that these places cost this much, in addition to the fact that you CAN like you mention eat out cheap if you selectively go to these places, means other places that actually do serve better quality food are much more expensive. NYC is hella expensive. I agree that you can live cheap here but it is a freaking expensive city to live and you are going to have to make a conscious effort to be cheap/do abnormal things (ie like ordering lime soda in your example to save money on drinks).

[Anonymous User]

Even benchmarked against most other NYC yuppies, I do think it reflects a warped perspective to spend “$60pp, usually closer to $100” on casual (i.e., not a special occasion) meals out.

More than anything, it tells me that your friend group / social scene is a super homogenous set of other lawyers, finance people, etc. I say this with zero smugness, but my friend group (and most people’s?) is built from childhood friends, undergrad, other people I’ve met doing hobbies in the city (along with law school & lawyers) — people from all walks of life, with different jobs and levels of income. If I regularly wanted to drop $60-100/meal I would alienate most of them and end up hanging out with the same 5 people all the time.

[Anonymous User]

Right, 20 bucks for a bowl of ramen and local Asian places that sell shitty/low quality food for 15 bucks (as an Asian I find them ridiculously expensive for quality) - both of which I find very expensive and overpriced for the quality/type of food you get. The fact that these places cost this much, in addition to the fact that you CAN like you mention eat out cheap if you selectively go to these places, means other places that actually do serve better quality food are much more expensive. NYC is hella expensive. I agree that you can live cheap here but it is a freaking expensive city to live and you are going to have to make a conscious effort to be cheap/do abnormal things (ie like ordering lime soda in your example to save money on drinks).

I am not sure what this means. The suggestion that you have to spend $20 to get non-shitty Asian food is absurd. There are plenty of places, especially for lunch, that cost $10-15 per entree. Would I get a better meal at Masa/Momofuku/Kurumazushi or even Buddakan? Probably. But I am willing to sacrifice the marginal increase in quality in order to save. Other people may not; that is fine. But it is not "difficult" or "impossible" to do so. It takes a certain kind of person to think a $20--even in NYC--is necessarily "shitty" or "low quality."

Also, LOL at the "conscious effort" of...passively not ordering alcohol. I hope random, normal Americans never come across this post, because it at best reflects how out of touch high-income earners are. Living frugally is something that millions of our fellow Americans are forced to do. The fact that we have the luxury of doing so in order to save for retirement and yet somehow believe that we do not is alarming.

[Anonymous User]

As a rising 4th year, I've seen friends talk about getting to a net worth of 500k+ and some people barely above 0 if that.

Conversations here are illuminating and highlight some of the choices that lead people to different points. If you think the $100+ outings are normal and routine and think it would be unusual or painfully frugal not to be leading that life, its not a surprise that its going to seem like the only way someone is saving significant wealth during the big law years is if somehow they got super lucky, are painfully frugal, or have family providing assistance. I have a couple friends who basically still live paycheck to paycheck. The bulk of the year end bonus is getting dumped into a car or vacation. This behavior often manifests in a lot of ways not being talked about here as well. I'm guilty of buying a $500 pair of shoes, but its become clear to be that clothing and indulgences like that can burn through many many thousands of some associates take home each year.

Conversely, the people living a half hour commute out maybe with a roommate, drinking/eating in with friends more often than they are going out, and engaging in more frugal behavior are going to find it surprising that their peers haven't accumulated more wealth. I have the same car I had in law school, friends (who barely drive) have $60k+ new cars and remark how ridiculous it is I haven't changed cars; choices like that have an impact on your networth.

I think I was pretty shocked when a friend told me they basically had nothing saved outside of a 401k they hadn't even started until part of the way in their 2nd year in big law. I think there is a lot of financial behavior like this that isn't talked about; have had multiple people tell me they can't afford to max their 401ks as big law associates which I personally find pretty fucking ridiculous.

Don't think anyone is saying the market hasn't been good, but that has affected all of the class of 2017-2018 graduates roughly equally, and yet outcomes are very divergent based on personal choices. No one is saying you can't spend, I think the pushback is against people who act like its impossible to save because that just isn't reality when you're in the top 2% of income earners (even somewhere as expensive as NYC).

[Anonymous User]

Right, 20 bucks for a bowl of ramen and local Asian places that sell shitty/low quality food for 15 bucks (as an Asian I find them ridiculously expensive for quality) - both of which I find very expensive and overpriced for the quality/type of food you get. The fact that these places cost this much, in addition to the fact that you CAN like you mention eat out cheap if you selectively go to these places, means other places that actually do serve better quality food are much more expensive. NYC is hella expensive. I agree that you can live cheap here but it is a freaking expensive city to live and you are going to have to make a conscious effort to be cheap/do abnormal things (ie like ordering lime soda in your example to save money on drinks).

I am not sure what this means. The suggestion that you have to spend $20 to get non-shitty Asian food is absurd. There are plenty of places, especially for lunch, that cost $10-15 per entree. Would I get a better meal at Masa/Momofuku/Kurumazushi/Masa or even Buddakan? Probably. But I am willing to sacrifice the marginal increase in quality in order to save. Other people may not; that is fine. But it is not "difficult" or "impossible" to do so. It takes a certain kind of person to think a $20--even in NYC--is necessarily "shitty" or "low quality."

Also, LOL at the "conscious effort" of...passively not ordering alcohol. I hope random, normal Americans never come across this post, because it at best reflects how out of touch high-income earners are. Living frugally is something that millions of our fellow Americans are forced to do. The fact that we have the luxury of doing so in order to save for retirement and yet somehow believe that we do not is alarming.

Lol, love how this person just misinterprets my post exactly how he/she wants to make his/her point.

I thought we were talking about eat outs on weekends/dinners w friends and family? We are talking about lunches now? Then I wouldn't spend more than 10 bucks. Who's spending more than 20 bucks for lunches here?

And also the lime soda example was in response to someone who posted about not ordering second/third drinks when drinking out with friends, which seems a bid odd behavior if your friends are otherwise ordering alcohol.