NYC V20 or Secondary Market V50? Forum

[The Lsat Airbender]

We've done long distance before, we're doing it now, we don't like it but neither of us want to be in a situation where one resents the other in 10 years for "sacrificing their career." I understand that you think it's absurd that I'm considering this but I'm really not some crazy/stupid/heartless bitch. Law school is a pressure cooker for prestige whoring and I'm looking for advice to figure out if, all things considered, a V20 will do more than a V50 for my career or if it's all just smoke from other insecure 2Ls. So far, consensus seems to be the latter.

You've been told repeatedly that you wouldn't be "sacrificing your career"—literally nobody, you or anybody else, has been able to articulate a reason why you'd be sacrificing your career by working at a V50 in Philly or Dallas instead of a V20 in New York. And there's no "all things considered" because everyone's career goals are different, which is why people are so curious what you think the difference would be so that you can get the best advice possible.

I can imagine, for instance, a handful of career trajectories where there's a difference. Maybe you want to get really good at cap markets because your parents live in Hong Kong and you (reasonably) think that practice area would be your best chance of lateralling overseas. That's a decent reason to be in NYC—but it's not something I'd interpolate onto a "generic" T14 grad because cap-markets otherwise sucks ass and the vast majority of people don't want to move to HK.

Again, 100% of the reason we're giving you grief is that you still haven't put anything on that side of the scale aside from "NYC would be fun" (which I sympathize with but also think is a couple orders of magnitude less important than being able to see my partner on a Tuesday).

[Robot]

To answer your question above, no, it is not at all obvious that Cleary NY is a better place to be a lit junior than a market-paying, Chambers-ranked lit practice in Atlanta. Major contract disputes, white collar cases, etc. end up all over the country. And to the extent you end up being on some smaller teams *that’s probably a good thing*. There’s a reason why lots of lit people would prefer like Holwell Shuster to Cleary even in NY. You seem unable to take yes for an answer—everyone here, most of whom are actual lawyers in biglaw, is saying you won’t take a career hit. To the extent you’re feeling angst it’s about personal stuff, not career stuff, which is why you’re getting so much hostility.

[The Lsat Airbender]

INT. SEAN'S OFFICE -- DAY

SEAN
Gotta go with the V50 there...

WILL
I want to go with the V20.

SEAN
The V20, why?

WILL
Cause fuck him, that's why.

A long quiet moment.

WILL
Is that why me and my fiancé broke up?

SEAN
I didn't know you wanted to. Do you want
to talk about that?
(beat)
I don't know a lot, Will. But let me
tell you one thing. All this history,
this shit...
(indicates résumé)
Look here, son.

Will, who had been looking away, looks at Sean.

SEAN
What are your career goals?

WILL
(nonchalant)
Oh, I don't know.

SEAN
What are your career goals?

WILL
(smiles)
I don't know.

SEAN
What are your career goals?

WILL
I don't know.

SEAN
What are your career goals?

WILL
(dead serious)
I don't know.

SEAN
What are your career goals?

WILL
Don't fuck with me.

SEAN
(comes around desk,
sits in front of
Will)
What are your career goals?

WILL
(tears start)
I don't know.

SEAN
What are...

WILL
(crying hard)
I don't know, don't know...

Sean takes Will in his arms and holds him like a child. Will
sobs like a baby. After a moment, he wraps his arms around
Sean and holds him, even tighter. We pull back from this
image. Two lonely souls being father and son together.

[dazed123]

Not sure which thread is worse, this or the one comparing NYC to secondary office preftige

[itsabouttom]

This thread is the TLS equivalent of the couch guy drama

[Anonymous User]

SEAN
(comes around desk,
sits in front of
Will)
What are your career goals?

WILL
(tears start)
I don't know.

SEAN
What are...

WILL
(crying hard)
I don't know, don't know...

Yes that's literally the point lmao. I don't know whether I'm more interested in cap markets, M&A, general commercial lit, white collar, PE, etc because I have never fucking been a lawyer before. I've got maybe a generalized interest in lit but that's about it. I want a summer that will give me exposure to the best practices in the most fields, so I can start off on the right foot post-3L; hence the attraction to the V20. I don't think that's a ludicrous position to have for any 2L who didn't spend two years as a litigation paralegal at Davis Polk before law school.

[Anonymous User]

SEAN
(comes around desk,
sits in front of
Will)
What are your career goals?

WILL
(tears start)
I don't know.

SEAN
What are...

WILL
(crying hard)
I don't know, don't know...

Yes that's literally the point lmao. I don't know whether I'm more interested in cap markets, M&A, general commercial lit, white collar, PE, etc because I have never fucking been a lawyer before. I've got maybe a generalized interest in lit but that's about it. I want a summer that will give me exposure to the best practices in the most fields, so I can start off on the right foot post-3L; hence the attraction to the V20. I don't think that's a ludicrous position to have for any 2L who didn't spend two years as a litigation paralegal at Davis Polk before law school.

Just split your damn summer.

[Anonymous User]

Yes that's literally the point lmao. I don't know whether I'm more interested in cap markets, M&A, general commercial lit, white collar, PE, etc because I have never fucking been a lawyer before. I've got maybe a generalized interest in lit but that's about it. I want a summer that will give me exposure to the best practices in the most fields, so I can start off on the right foot post-3L; hence the attraction to the V20. I don't think that's a ludicrous position to have for any 2L who didn't spend two years as a litigation paralegal at Davis Polk before law school.

It actually still kind of is ludicrous unless your apprehension is backed by, say, consistently huge differences in Chambers practice groups rankings. Just split, experience both, and get more money.

The idea that a generic NYC V20 is going to offer vastly better opportunities across the board from a secondary market V50 is a little ridiculous, especially if you are as uncertain as you are in what you want to do. If you were dead set on energy work or federal regulatory work or NY financial institutions or something, then maybe there would be a conversation here. But the idea that your one summer assignment in each field is going to be drastically different between the two firms is fantastical. Your concern about starting off on the "right foot" makes no sense, since performing well during the summer and returning to a firm that is happy to have you back is "starting off on the right foot," and that is available to you at each firm.

FWIW, a lot of people manage to make rational decisions without being paralegals before law school.

At this point, you should do what you want. But since you are persistently unable or unwilling to provide any concrete reasons for why the V20 makes more sense in your circumstance or any differentiating information about the two opportunities, I am not sure what more you want, if you ever wanted something more than validation for the probably unwise choice of sacrificing formative years with your purported life partner in exchange for nothing.

To put a finer point on it, just looking at the V11-20 firms, you are clearly not considering QE since it does only lit. C&B and WH would be in contention if you were looking at their DC offices, since they are top-notch in regulatory and other work there. None of the other V20 firms is going to provide something vastly different what what you can get at a generic V50 firm in a secondary market, although the size of the offices, whether the offices are HQs, etc. could potentially be relevant.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

OP, everyone here has correctly ripped you for threatening your relationship for the sake of preftige.

For some solace: There was a woman who posted here some years back about strongly considering an abortion (despite being married and wanting kids) because she was concerned it would be harder to make a good impression at her SA in her third trimester. She is the current Undisputed TLS Champion of Completely and Hopelessly Losing Track of Priorities, and you would have to do much more to take her title.