K&E Share Partner taking questions about K&E Forum

[k_moreno]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

Why do you say that? Seems pretty on point to me. KE share partners actually have more time than you might think.

Two mistakes I've seen so far:
1. The number they gave for earnings of first-year share partners was way too high, unless KE is about to pass WLRK in PPP.
2. They said they won't know hours until the end of August, but you can get a monthly hours report with the trailing 12-month average (and most people, both SPs and NSPs, do because it helps in staffing).

That plus the attitude sounds like an NSP to me.

[Anonymous User]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

Why do you say that? Seems pretty on point to me. KE share partners actually have more time than you might think.

Two mistakes I've seen so far:
1. The number they gave for earnings of first-year share partners was way too high, unless KE is about to pass WLRK in PPP.
2. They said they won't know hours until the end of August, but you can get a monthly hours report with the trailing 12-month average (and most people, both SPs and NSPs, do because it helps in staffing).

That plus the attitude sounds like an NSP to me.

At K&E, not OP - these “mistakes” are not mistakes. First year SPs were at about $1.8-2.0 million, and then PPP was up about 20% last year. Totally plausible.

And the billable year for bonus purposes is TTM ending 8/31, which is what everyone is thinking about this time of year.

[Anonymous User]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

My thinking as well. OP - to the extent you actually are a Kirk share partner, is this something you’re doing on a whim or did you discuss with your fellow share partners first as an actual attempt to clarify misinformation on this forum? Genuine question to the extent you’re legit

This shtick is less believable than craigslist personals.

I’m the person you quoted. No idea what you meant by my shtick and underlining the phrase to the extent, but ok

[dyemond]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

My thinking as well. OP - to the extent you actually are a Kirk share partner, is this something you’re doing on a whim or did you discuss with your fellow share partners first as an actual attempt to clarify misinformation on this forum? Genuine question to the extent you’re legit

This shtick is less believable than craigslist personals.

I’m the person you quoted. No idea what you meant by my shtick and underlining the phrase to the extent, but ok

Talking OP. It's flame.

[Buglaw]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

My thinking as well. OP - to the extent you actually are a Kirk share partner, is this something you’re doing on a whim or did you discuss with your fellow share partners first as an actual attempt to clarify misinformation on this forum? Genuine question to the extent you’re legit

This shtick is less believable than craigslist personals.

I’m the person you quoted. No idea what you meant by my shtick and underlining the phrase to the extent, but ok

Talking OP. It's flame.

It's a good flame then. It sounds quite plausible.

[Sackboy]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

Why do you say that? Seems pretty on point to me. KE share partners actually have more time than you might think.

Two mistakes I've seen so far:
1. The number they gave for earnings of first-year share partners was way too high, unless KE is about to pass WLRK in PPP.
2. They said they won't know hours until the end of August, but you can get a monthly hours report with the trailing 12-month average (and most people, both SPs and NSPs, do because it helps in staffing).

That plus the attitude sounds like an NSP to me.

At K&E, not OP - these “mistakes” are not mistakes. First year SPs were at about $1.8-2.0 million, and then PPP was up about 20% last year. Totally plausible.

And the billable year for bonus purposes is TTM ending 8/31, which is what everyone is thinking about this time of year.

Yep, with 1st yr SP being reported at ~$2M before the killer year, it's no surprise. KE can make a $2.5 minimum payment with a PPP lower than Wachtell, because a lot more people hover around the minimum payout at KE with high performers getting 9-10x of the minimum.

[k_moreno]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

Why do you say that? Seems pretty on point to me. KE share partners actually have more time than you might think.

Two mistakes I've seen so far:
1. The number they gave for earnings of first-year share partners was way too high, unless KE is about to pass WLRK in PPP.
2. They said they won't know hours until the end of August, but you can get a monthly hours report with the trailing 12-month average (and most people, both SPs and NSPs, do because it helps in staffing).

That plus the attitude sounds like an NSP to me.

At K&E, not OP - these “mistakes” are not mistakes. First year SPs were at about $1.8-2.0 million, and then PPP was up about 20% last year. Totally plausible.

And the billable year for bonus purposes is TTM ending 8/31, which is what everyone is thinking about this time of year.

Yep, with 1st yr SP being reported at ~$2M before the killer year, it's no surprise. KE can make a $2.5 minimum payment with a PPP lower than Wachtell, because a lot more people hover around the minimum payout at KE with high performers getting 9-10x of the minimum.

Nope, your numbers are wrong. It wasn't 2M, and it's not going to be 2.5. This is exactly how I know that none of you are SPs at KE. You're guessing. This is all just gossip the NSPs spread when they think they might make shares. Settle down and focus on your work.

[Anonymous User]

Back on topic - which KE offices, if any, are satellite offices (defined as those where the majority of the work associates do is for clients whose main relationship partners are in other offices)?

[Anonymous User]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

Why do you say that? Seems pretty on point to me. KE share partners actually have more time than you might think.

Two mistakes I've seen so far:
1. The number they gave for earnings of first-year share partners was way too high, unless KE is about to pass WLRK in PPP.
2. They said they won't know hours until the end of August, but you can get a monthly hours report with the trailing 12-month average (and most people, both SPs and NSPs, do because it helps in staffing).

That plus the attitude sounds like an NSP to me.

At K&E, not OP - these “mistakes” are not mistakes. First year SPs were at about $1.8-2.0 million, and then PPP was up about 20% last year. Totally plausible.

And the billable year for bonus purposes is TTM ending 8/31, which is what everyone is thinking about this time of year.

Yep, with 1st yr SP being reported at ~$2M before the killer year, it's no surprise. KE can make a $2.5 minimum payment with a PPP lower than Wachtell, because a lot more people hover around the minimum payout at KE with high performers getting 9-10x of the minimum.

Nope, your numbers are wrong. It wasn't 2M, and it's not going to be 2.5. This is exactly how I know that none of you are SPs at KE. You're guessing. This is all just gossip the NSPs spread when they think they might make shares. Settle down and focus on your work.

I had heard from an NSP that Kirkland share partners start around $1.25m-$1.5m (which seems to be similar but slightly higher than most highly profitable firms) and NSPs average around $650k-$700k. Is that closer to “reality”? I find it hard to believe that share partners in some of the less profitable practices are raking in $2.5m as first year share partners.

Also, is the range for NSPs (if accurate) excluding career NSPs?

[Anonymous User]

There is so much bullshit in this thread, even for TLS standards. Mods, please have the "Kirkland" partner identify themself or shut this down.

[Anonymous User]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

My thinking as well. OP - to the extent you actually are a Kirk share partner, is this something you’re doing on a whim or did you discuss with your fellow share partners first as an actual attempt to clarify misinformation on this forum? Genuine question to the extent you’re legit

This shtick is less believable than craigslist personals.

I’m the person you quoted. No idea what you meant by my shtick and underlining the phrase to the extent, but ok

Talking OP. It's flame.

Nah - his/her response was pretty on point to the attitude of some of the SPs who are just tryna line their pockets as much as possible and don't actually care about the long term. Plus, the fact that he/she left the thread after he/she f***ed up and made an a** out of himself/herself, pretty good indicator he/she is real - a flame would have kept the roll bread going.

[k_moreno]

Nah - his/her response was pretty on point to the attitude of some of the SPs who are just tryna line their pockets as much as possible and don't actually care about the long term. Plus, the fact that he/she left the thread after he/she f***ed up and made an a** out of himself/herself, pretty good indicator he/she is real - a flame would have kept the roll bread going.

There’s no doubt the attitude of that place is to make as much money as possible.

[uygiugiyugyugk]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

[Sackboy]

Yep, with 1st yr SP being reported at ~$2M before the killer year, it's no surprise. KE can make a $2.5 minimum payment with a PPP lower than Wachtell, because a lot more people hover around the minimum payout at KE with high performers getting 9-10x of the minimum.

Nope, your numbers are wrong. It wasn't 2M, and it's not going to be 2.5. This is exactly how I know that none of you are SPs at KE. You're guessing. This is all just gossip the NSPs spread when they think they might make shares. Settle down and focus on your work.

What an idiotic reply. First, I'm not claiming to be a KE SP. I'm an associate, and I don't even work at KE. Second, I think ~$1.8 million was the number reported a couple of years ago from a reputable publication, and the publication's source was from the annual partnership retreat. The KE SP here isn't doing the firm any favors with his attitude, but your post is about as sharp as a butter knife.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

[njdevils2626]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

I legitimately don't understand the people who seem to be under the belief that this is exclusive to the legal field. If you do good work, you will get more work. That's just common sense in any industry. Do something you enjoy doing and it won't seem like the punishment you seem to be making it out to be

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

I legitimately don't understand the people who seem to be under the belief that this is exclusive to the legal field. If you do good work, you will get more work. That's just common sense in any industry. Do something you enjoy doing and it won't seem like the punishment you seem to be making it out to be

I don’t think any of the posts you quoted suggested this was unique to biglaw or to law itself.

And there are plenty of people who at least kind of like the issues involved in biglaw, and find them interesting, who nonetheless find themselves inundated with too much work. Your last sentence is a boomer mentality; it could come straight from a guy who hasn’t actually worked 40 hours in a week for the last couple decades, as he watches a millennial stay late for the 14th night in a row and thinks that they must just be lazy during daytime hours.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

Ding ding ding. Calculated mediocrity/figuring out how to be just competent and responsive enough is the best way to survive BigLaw and maintain some semblance of a life.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

I legitimately don't understand the people who seem to be under the belief that this is exclusive to the legal field. If you do good work, you will get more work. That's just common sense in any industry. Do something you enjoy doing and it won't seem like the punishment you seem to be making it out to be

I don’t think any of the posts you quoted suggested this was unique to biglaw or to law itself.

And there are plenty of people who at least kind of like the issues involved in biglaw, and find them interesting, who nonetheless find themselves inundated with too much work. Your last sentence is a boomer mentality; it could come straight from a guy who hasn’t actually worked 40 hours in a week for the last couple decades, as he watches a millennial stay late for the 14th night in a row and thinks that they must just be lazy during daytime hours.

The bolded

[njdevils2626]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

I legitimately don't understand the people who seem to be under the belief that this is exclusive to the legal field. If you do good work, you will get more work. That's just common sense in any industry. Do something you enjoy doing and it won't seem like the punishment you seem to be making it out to be

I don’t think any of the posts you quoted suggested this was unique to biglaw or to law itself.

And there are plenty of people who at least kind of like the issues involved in biglaw, and find them interesting, who nonetheless find themselves inundated with too much work. Your last sentence is a boomer mentality; it could come straight from a guy who hasn’t actually worked 40 hours in a week for the last couple decades, as he watches a millennial stay late for the 14th night in a row and thinks that they must just be lazy during daytime hours.

I'm an under 30 associate who billed 2750 last year, try again.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

I legitimately don't understand the people who seem to be under the belief that this is exclusive to the legal field. If you do good work, you will get more work. That's just common sense in any industry. Do something you enjoy doing and it won't seem like the punishment you seem to be making it out to be

I don’t think any of the posts you quoted suggested this was unique to biglaw or to law itself.

And there are plenty of people who at least kind of like the issues involved in biglaw, and find them interesting, who nonetheless find themselves inundated with too much work. Your last sentence is a boomer mentality; it could come straight from a guy who hasn’t actually worked 40 hours in a week for the last couple decades, as he watches a millennial stay late for the 14th night in a row and thinks that they must just be lazy during daytime hours.

I'm an under 30 associate who billed 2750 last year, try again.

I bet if you just billed 2800, it would all be worth it and you’d make partner. Cancel just a couple more dates, lunches with friends, maybe a trip to visit family in order to go in to the office and bill. You’re almost there.

[njdevils2626]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

This is everywhere. You run your good horses hard.

Of course, this is why associates who don't want to be partners should try to supply less than their best work - putting in only as much effort as will keep them from getting pushed out. Any work above and beyond that point for those associates is not only wasted, but actively counterproductive, since it will likely attract even MORE work in response.

I legitimately don't understand the people who seem to be under the belief that this is exclusive to the legal field. If you do good work, you will get more work. That's just common sense in any industry. Do something you enjoy doing and it won't seem like the punishment you seem to be making it out to be

I don’t think any of the posts you quoted suggested this was unique to biglaw or to law itself.

And there are plenty of people who at least kind of like the issues involved in biglaw, and find them interesting, who nonetheless find themselves inundated with too much work. Your last sentence is a boomer mentality; it could come straight from a guy who hasn’t actually worked 40 hours in a week for the last couple decades, as he watches a millennial stay late for the 14th night in a row and thinks that they must just be lazy during daytime hours.

I'm an under 30 associate who billed 2750 last year, try again.

I bet if you just billed 2800, it would all be worth it and you’d make partner. Cancel just a couple more dates, lunches with friends, maybe a trip to visit family in order to go in to the office and bill. You’re almost there.

I don't have kids yet, so right now it's not that difficult, I haven't had to cancel any vacations or family visits, and always make sure to take time for my friendships and relationship. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of work, and I'd be more than happy to take on less. But when there's work to go around, people want their best associates on it, and I don't get the mentality of wanting to be mediocre. If you like the work, it's a lot of fun and I guess I'm one of the lucky few who actually likes it...

[tlsguy2020]

I don't have kids yet, so right now it's not that difficult, I haven't had to cancel any vacations or family visits, and always make sure to take time for my friendships and relationship. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of work, and I'd be more than happy to take on less. But when there's work to go around, people want their best associates on it, and I don't get the mentality of wanting to be mediocre. If you like the work, it's a lot of fun and I guess I'm one of the lucky few who actually likes it...

Sorry to derail this thread. No snark question: how do you manage to do this? How much time are you able to make for your friendships or relationships? When are you able to keep in touch with folks? Genuinely curious how the 2700+ maintains a social life.

[njdevils2626]

I don't have kids yet, so right now it's not that difficult, I haven't had to cancel any vacations or family visits, and always make sure to take time for my friendships and relationship. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of work, and I'd be more than happy to take on less. But when there's work to go around, people want their best associates on it, and I don't get the mentality of wanting to be mediocre. If you like the work, it's a lot of fun and I guess I'm one of the lucky few who actually likes it...

Sorry to derail this thread. No snark question: how do you manage to do this? How much time are you able to make for your friendships or relationships? When are you able to keep in touch with folks? Genuinely curious how the 2700+ maintains a social life.

Also wary of derailing the thread and happy to answer any DMs if people have any questions (though it doesn't seem like OP is coming back anyways), but the most important factor is probably that I don't sleep very much. I sleep about 4 hours a night, and grew up with my father working long hours and sleeping 4 hours a night too, so maybe it's genetic. But I operate perfectly fine on very little sleep.

Aside from that, I try to take at least one, ideally two, nights a week to have a date night with my wife. We cook together most other nights to spend time together. I also mostly keep up with friends via group chats rather than seeing each other in person, as I grew up in Canada and most of my friends are still back there. I take the time to see them whenever we visit friends and family back home, typically every month or two in non-COVID times, and grab lunches with local friends whenever I can. I play multiple team sports on a weekly basis (but don't get to the gym as much as I should), and manage to maintain what I'd consider a relatively balanced lifestyle, even if there's always more I wish I could be doing.

This all will likely look different in a few years when I have kids and I have no doubts that I will need to scale it back a bit. And I don't want to give the impression that work never interferes with life; even with a more typical 2000 hours that's an impossibility. To give just one example, I spent most of an afternoon of my wife's brother's bachelor party multitasking the group poker game while also on a call and turning comments on an urgent matter. It's not ideal, but I genuinely like the work, don't find the hours to be killer, and feel pretty balanced overall.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

LOL

"Here to correct misinformation and set things straight."

"Yeah we continue to pile on people billing 200 a month and it's "up to them" to say no knowing full well we self-selected for people terrified to stand up for themselves, even at the expense of their mental and physical health. As you can see, this has been a very profitable strategy for us!"