2021 Special Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

Returning to the topic at hand, who matches next? Milbank?

Milbank partner meetings are on Mondays so maybe there's a chance we get good news next week? My transactional group lost a huge amount of associates in the past year in the middle of all-time highs in activity so it would be a nice morale boost. Though to be honest, while a special bonus would obviously be great, if it's three months before the first part of that is paid out, I'm not sure if that would stop more people from leaving before then.

Are people quitting to go in-house or are they lateraling in the hope the next firm will be better?

Grass-is-greener syndrome is pervasive in this industry, even among people who you'd think would be perceptive about it.

Sometimes it might actually just be "money-is-greener" syndrome because even if situation at the next place is just as bad as your current one, you might at least be able to get a signing bonus for the lateral move there if you're a mid-level or senior.

[Anonymous User]

cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this

just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement

Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT

Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?

1800 is super low, especially for a firm where unlimited pro Bono is allowed

It’s super low *for a firm with an hours requirement*, but the top firms in NY generally don’t have one at all. 2000 hours for an NY V10 is really bad.

WFG is pretty obviously paying the bonuses because of the volume of the work. If you're in corporate at a v20 right now and will have difficulty hitting 2k this year something is extremely wrong absent situations like a medical condition, parental leave, etc.

[Anonymous User]

cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this

just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement

Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT

Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?

1800 is super low, especially for a firm where unlimited pro Bono is allowed

It’s super low *for a firm with an hours requirement*, but the top firms in NY generally don’t have one at all. 2000 hours for an NY V10 is really bad.

WFG is pretty obviously paying the bonuses because of the volume of the work. If you're in corporate at a v20 right now and will have difficulty hitting 2k this year something is extremely wrong absent situations like a medical condition, parental leave, etc.

Not the point. The requirement is not the market. Instituting the requirement benefits no one besides the partners, and normalizes it for other firms. So let's not defend their constant attempts to take more from associates.

[Anonymous User]

Wilkie’s funds group must be slammed. I’m a funds associate at another firm and we are drowning. Morale is low and we are desperate for laterals. If the firm doesn’t pay a special bonus I could see a lot of funds associates leaving, especially since Wilkie is a peer/lower ranked group.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Chiming in to echo all the other comments: There simply aren't enough midlevels in many groups, especially at growing firms like KE (where I am). Hours are going up and lateral recruiting is really tough right now. There are big bonuses available for certain laterals in the right groups - no one in busy practice areas should be lateraling without a signing bonus and a full 2021 year-end bonus guarantee.

The Willkie bonus makes a ton of sense in this regard, and I expect to see lots of matching. End of Q2 and end of Q3 bonuses (along with the usual end of Q4 big bonus) is probably the most effective retention tool that these firms could come up with, until someone finally bites the bullet and moves the salary scale above 200k.

Kirkland was one of the big guys who didn't match the fall 2020 bonuses at first - they basically told associates that they would and then did so at year end. So I'll be especially curious to see what we do if the other firms match Willkie with the same Q2/Q3 timing. I think Kirkland probably will play along this time.

[Anonymous User]

For a firm like K&E that has more business than they know what to do with, is struggling to retain associates, and is desperate for laterals...why not just go ahead and be the first mover to 200k (or even 210)?

Is this just partner greed holding them back, or is there something else to it? From my uninformed perspective, that kind of publicity (both external and internal) sounds like exactly what they might need right now...plus I’m hopeful as I work at a firm that’s a consistent follower but never a market mover.

Late reply but: KE competes at the V10 level. If KE goes to 210, every firm in the V10 will just match. So they've gained no retention effect and cut their profitability per partner. There's also the financial flexibility aspect to it. Bonuses let you flex up and down your comp spending depending on how your books are doing. Once you've committed to a 210 base, you're stuck with that forever unless you're willing to take a huge reputational hit which no firm of KE's stature ever would be.

Increasing associate comp that will be matched by peer firms (i.e. salaries, or what Willkie just did surely) is not a way to retain associates against their lateraling to those peers. It's a way to retain them against exiting biglaw entirely for QoL reasons.

In other words, if you are saying KE won't go to 210 because it wouldn't help with retention against intra-biglaw lateraling, then you should both (1) say the same thing about these Willkie bonuses and (2) recognize that these bonuses, and any salary increase, are thusly not intended to protect against intra-biglaw lateraling. Midlevels are saying f*** this and are going in house for 45 hour a week gigs.

[Anonymous User]

A 2,000 hour requirement to remain in "good standing" sounds worse than 2,000 to get a bonus. I can imagine someone being in good standing but not getting a bonus. I cannot imagine a scenario in which someone not in good standing gets a bonus.

Yeah, this is atrocious. If you’re not in good standing, doesn’t that mean you technically don’t advance with your class year so you’re kept back on the salary scale too (or asked to leave)?

Wanted to clarify that the partners went to great lengths to assure us that our salary scales or the bonuses aren't impacted by the hours requirement and that the 2000 hours are merely to serve as a "guidepost". Still a shitty move and no one has any clue what this actually means though.

[Anonymous User]

Wilkie’s funds group must be slammed. I’m a funds associate at another firm and we are drowning. Morale is low and we are desperate for laterals. If the firm doesn’t pay a special bonus I could see a lot of funds associates leaving, especially since Wilkie is a peer/lower ranked group.

at a smaller, non-peer funds group in the v50 and it's bad, M&A is worse, but there are zero signs of slowing down, unless everyone just leaves... which doesn't seem impossible.

[Anonymous User]

Are people quitting to go in-house or are they lateraling in the hope the next firm will be better?

From my corporate group the departures have been to smaller, more specialized boutique firms with relaxed reputations, and in-house to clients. Not much movement to similar sized shops.

[objctnyrhnr]

A 2,000 hour requirement to remain in "good standing" sounds worse than 2,000 to get a bonus. I can imagine someone being in good standing but not getting a bonus. I cannot imagine a scenario in which someone not in good standing gets a bonus.

Yeah, this is atrocious. If you’re not in good standing, doesn’t that mean you technically don’t advance with your class year so you’re kept back on the salary scale too (or asked to leave)?

Wanted to clarify that the partners went to great lengths to assure us that our salary scales or the bonuses aren't impacted by the hours requirement and that the 2000 hours are merely to serve as a "guidepost". Still a shitty move and no one has any clue what this actually means though.

At the risk of sounding like a bootlicker, is this requirement that absurd? I’m at a v25 or so with that requirement and honesty I just figured it was standard across biglaw. I recognize that a handful of firms have no req, but 1) figured that was the small minority, and 2) figured this was the implied requirement throughout regardless. I mean if you’re not doing 2000, isn’t there a problem somewhere no matter whether there is an express requirement?

Anyway I guess I’m not quite understanding the outrage here, but maybe that’s on me for accepting it at my firm without objection when maybe I should be more miffed.

[Elston Gunn]

A 2,000 hour requirement to remain in "good standing" sounds worse than 2,000 to get a bonus. I can imagine someone being in good standing but not getting a bonus. I cannot imagine a scenario in which someone not in good standing gets a bonus.

Yeah, this is atrocious. If you’re not in good standing, doesn’t that mean you technically don’t advance with your class year so you’re kept back on the salary scale too (or asked to leave)?

Wanted to clarify that the partners went to great lengths to assure us that our salary scales or the bonuses aren't impacted by the hours requirement and that the 2000 hours are merely to serve as a "guidepost". Still a shitty move and no one has any clue what this actually means though.

At the risk of sounding like a bootlicker, is this requirement that absurd? I’m at a v25 or so with that requirement and honesty I just figured it was standard across biglaw. I recognize that a handful of firms have no req, but 1) figured that was the small minority, and 2) figured this was the implied requirement throughout regardless. I mean if you’re not doing 2000, isn’t there a problem somewhere no matter whether there is an express requirement?

Anyway I guess I’m not quite understanding the outrage here, but maybe that’s on me for accepting it at my firm without objection when maybe I should be more miffed.

If it’s just a “guidepost” that’s not a big deal. But a 2000 hour minimum for bonus isn’t market in NY, and if you’re in Biglaw for 4-5 years, a year or two of sub-2K hours is pretty likely—even if the rest are well above that—and doesn’t indicate any sort of problem imo.

[MrTooToo]

A 2,000 hour requirement to remain in "good standing" sounds worse than 2,000 to get a bonus. I can imagine someone being in good standing but not getting a bonus. I cannot imagine a scenario in which someone not in good standing gets a bonus.

Yeah, this is atrocious. If you’re not in good standing, doesn’t that mean you technically don’t advance with your class year so you’re kept back on the salary scale too (or asked to leave)?

Wanted to clarify that the partners went to great lengths to assure us that our salary scales or the bonuses aren't impacted by the hours requirement and that the 2000 hours are merely to serve as a "guidepost". Still a shitty move and no one has any clue what this actually means though.

At the risk of sounding like a bootlicker, is this requirement that absurd? I’m at a v25 or so with that requirement and honesty I just figured it was standard across biglaw. I recognize that a handful of firms have no req, but 1) figured that was the small minority, and 2) figured this was the implied requirement throughout regardless. I mean if you’re not doing 2000, isn’t there a problem somewhere no matter whether there is an express requirement?

Anyway I guess I’m not quite understanding the outrage here, but maybe that’s on me for accepting it at my firm without objection when maybe I should be more miffed.

Almost everyone who stays in biglaw long enough will have an odd year or two where for some reason they don't hit the 2k mark--major case settles on the eve of trial (or the deal equivalent); big partner way high up departs and group slows for a few months; family or medical issues. Whatever. Elite firms with sufficient money have long recognized that the stupidest thing you can do to someone in that position is significantly ding them on their bonus because of a fluke year--it demoralizes people unnecessarily and arguably contributes to departures of people you want to retain. Admittedly, this is a long-term over short-term attitude which is an economic luxury that not all firms can have. But I'll argue pretty stoutly that no firm in the V25 should have a hard hours requirement, full stop.

To the topic at hand: I think we're going to see a good number of matches this week. The profit and revenue figures in the V25 are too good for everyone to not fall in line. Milbank, which is always a leader in this area, blew it out of the water last year. I wouldn't be surprised if we even saw a beat of the Willkie scale by a Milbank or Kirkland style firm that is just making money hand over fist.

[Anonymous User]

DPW news incoming....

[Anonymous User]

DPW came over the top. Two bonuses, one paid April 26 and one paid September 30

April September Total
Class of 2020 $4,500 $7,500 $12,000
Class of 2019 $6,000 $10,000 $16,000
Class of 2018 $12,000 $20,000 $32,000
Class of 2017 $16,500 $27,500 $44,000
Class of 2016 $19,500 $32,500 $52,000
Class of 2015 $22,200 $37,000 $59,200
Class of 2014+ $24,000 $40,000 $64,000

[esther0123]

DPW news incoming....

Are you saying this because you know something or are you saying this because you assume that DPW will move market like when it did with the COVID bonus? Don’t tease me like this!!

Edit: spoke too soon. Oh my god.

[Anonymous User]

DPW came over the top. Two bonuses, one paid April 26 and one paid September 30

April September Total
Class of 2020 $4,500 $7,500 $12,000
Class of 2019 $6,000 $10,000 $16,000
Class of 2018 $12,000 $20,000 $32,000
Class of 2017 $16,500 $27,500 $44,000
Class of 2016 $19,500 $32,500 $52,000
Class of 2015 $22,200 $37,000 $59,200
Class of 2014+ $24,000 $40,000 $64,000

Boom. Cravath, time to go over the top on these too.

[Anonymous User]

DPW came over the top. Two bonuses, one paid April 26 and one paid September 30

April September Total
Class of 2020 $4,500 $7,500 $12,000
Class of 2019 $6,000 $10,000 $16,000
Class of 2018 $12,000 $20,000 $32,000
Class of 2017 $16,500 $27,500 $44,000
Class of 2016 $19,500 $32,500 $52,000
Class of 2015 $22,200 $37,000 $59,200
Class of 2014+ $24,000 $40,000 $64,000

Neil Barr is getting aggressive!

[Anonymous User]

Associate comp using the DPW Special Bonus Scale (officially so named unless another firm comes over the top to reset it)

Salary + year-end + special = total
2020: 190 + 15 + 12 = $217,000
2019: 200 + 25 + 16 = $241,000
2018: 220 + 50 + 32 = $302,000
2017: 255 + 65 + 44 = $364,000
2016: 280 + 80 + 52 = $412,000
2015: 305 + 90 + 59.2 = $454,200
2014: 325 + 100 + 64 = $489,000

The new market.

[Anonymous User]

Associate comp using the DPW Special Bonus Scale (officially so named unless another firm comes over the top to reset it)

Salary + year-end + special = total
2020: 190 + 15 + 12 = $217,000
2019: 200 + 25 + 16 = $241,000
2018: 220 + 50 + 32 = $302,000
2017: 255 + 65 + 44 = $364,000
2016: 280 + 80 + 52 = $412,000
2015: 305 + 90 + 59.2 = $454,200
2014: 325 + 100 + 64 = $489,000

The new market.

Waiting for a firm to increase base salary to this, or at least close to it.
- Signed: Incoming first-year missing out on all this fun.

[avenuem]

Impressive numbers.

How much of a reputational hit would a person take if they lateraled from a V5 that doesn't pay this bonus ASAP to DPW?

[Anonymous User]

DPW came over the top. Two bonuses, one paid April 26 and one paid September 30

April September Total
Class of 2020 $4,500 $7,500 $12,000
Class of 2019 $6,000 $10,000 $16,000
Class of 2018 $12,000 $20,000 $32,000
Class of 2017 $16,500 $27,500 $44,000
Class of 2016 $19,500 $32,500 $52,000
Class of 2015 $22,200 $37,000 $59,200
Class of 2014+ $24,000 $40,000 $64,000

Boom. Cravath, time to go over the top on these too.

I don’t expect much from Cravath based on their activities on salary and bonus the last 5 years. Also, I’m pretty sure their 2020 revenue is down from 2019; their 2019 was down from 2018 too. I just don’t want them to nix this hope (and honestly, even if they do, I don’t think other firms will follow that trend but it will give some firms a leeway).

[Anonymous User]

Are people quitting to go in-house or are they lateraling in the hope the next firm will be better?

From my corporate group the departures have been to smaller, more specialized boutique firms with relaxed reputations, and in-house to clients. Not much movement to similar sized shops.

The bonuses are working. I went to one of the "relaxed" eg/vc boutiques. It was great for a bit, when I was billing 1700 hours a year, doing interesting work, lots of mentoring/investment, but we are now also super busy and I've been north of 2k hours for like 16 months, we can't find associates, and I'm wondering why I am taking what is now a substantial pay cut for something that is now reasonably close to big law.

[Anonymous User]

Are people quitting to go in-house or are they lateraling in the hope the next firm will be better?

From my corporate group the departures have been to smaller, more specialized boutique firms with relaxed reputations, and in-house to clients. Not much movement to similar sized shops.

The bonuses are working. I went to one of the "relaxed" eg/vc boutiques. It was great for a bit, when I was billing 1700 hours a year, doing interesting work, lots of mentoring/investment, but we are now also super busy and I've been north of 2k hours for like 16 months, we can't find associates, and I'm wondering why I am taking what is now a substantial pay cut for something that is now reasonably close to big law.

I haven't billed a single day including weekends for less than 10 hours in over a month, and of course when a deal was closing it was 16 or more. During work calls I've been creating a budget that forecasts exactly how much I'll have once bonuses hit Jan 2022 and my student loans will be almost gone. I daydream by scrolling through linkedIn over and over. If Spring of 2022 comes and this kind of staggered bonus structure exists again, would I delay? MAYBE. So I guess that means it's having the desired effect.

Oh, I'm a wildly "over it" midlevel.

[lolwutpar]

At some point you have to just pull the trigger and get out, there will always be some money waiting for you.

But, uh, over $400k is sure nice.