1st year corp. associates: Share your stories Forum

[2020throwaway]

Wow this thread has been a pleasant surprise. Some very informative responses; thank you all.

Seems like a TLS/this thread has a mixture of stories ranging from "slammed, billing 80-90+ hrs a week" or "I am a first year, i have no work, should i be worried". Makes it hard to put a finger on where I should be at in terms of feeling in the first couple of months or year.

For the more experienced in here (3+ years?) what are some (intentional or not) ways you have handled the stress or issues that juniors have pointed out? Was it trial by fire? What has surprised you about the corporate biglaw job, good or bad?

[Anonymous User]

Wow this thread has been a pleasant surprise. Some very informative responses; thank you all.

Seems like a TLS/this thread has a mixture of stories ranging from "slammed, billing 80-90+ hrs a week" or "I am a first year, i have no work, should i be worried". Makes it hard to put a finger on where I should be at in terms of feeling in the first couple of months or year.

For the more experienced in here (3+ years?) what are some (intentional or not) ways you have handled the stress or issues that juniors have pointed out? Was it trial by fire? What has surprised you about the corporate biglaw job, good or bad?

M&A third year.

I think the best advice I can give for a junior M&A associate would be to get comfortable with uncertainty.

At least in M&A, so much of the job is just figuring random shit out. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of a seniors office or hung up the phone thinking "I have no clue what to do with any of this." But I think half the job is just being able to live with that feeling of uncertainty.

I soon came to realize that the seniors were more often than not giving me enough information to piece together what I should be doing to "figure out the answer." A lot of times it just took me sitting down with what they gave me, spinning my wheels a bit and then going back to them with some pointed questions. That second meeting almost always focused my tasks and provided meaningful input that the first meeting/phone call (that was completely useless to me) failed to provide.

This has happened time and time again. And often as you deal with more senior people who forget how poorly juniors deal with uncertainty (perhaps because they are so far removed), the lack of initial direction is even worse because they will assume that once you look into the documents/question/etc. you will forge a path towards answering it.

At the end of the day, that is what lawyers do: we are problem solvers. Often those problems aren't readably answerable (or require some asinine amount of legal research that google won't fully answer) which is where we come in and that breeds uncertainty.

Hope that helps.

[2020throwaway]

Wow this thread has been a pleasant surprise. Some very informative responses; thank you all.

Seems like a TLS/this thread has a mixture of stories ranging from "slammed, billing 80-90+ hrs a week" or "I am a first year, i have no work, should i be worried". Makes it hard to put a finger on where I should be at in terms of feeling in the first couple of months or year.

For the more experienced in here (3+ years?) what are some (intentional or not) ways you have handled the stress or issues that juniors have pointed out? Was it trial by fire? What has surprised you about the corporate biglaw job, good or bad?

M&A third year.

I think the best advice I can give for a junior M&A associate would be to get comfortable with uncertainty.

At least in M&A, so much of the job is just figuring random shit out. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of a seniors office or hung up the phone thinking "I have no clue what to do with any of this." But I think half the job is just being able to live with that feeling of uncertainty.

I soon came to realize that the seniors were more often than not giving me enough information to piece together what I should be doing to "figure out the answer." A lot of times it just took me sitting down with what they gave me, spinning my wheels a bit and then going back to them with some pointed questions. That second meeting almost always focused my tasks and provided meaningful input that the first meeting/phone call (that was completely useless to me) failed to provide.

This has happened time and time again. And often as you deal with more senior people who forget how poorly juniors deal with uncertainty (perhaps because they are so far removed), the lack of initial direction is even worse because they will assume that once you look into the documents/question/etc. you will forge a path towards answering it.

At the end of the day, that is what lawyers do: we are problem solvers. Often those problems aren't readably answerable (or require some asinine amount of legal research that google won't fully answer) which is where we come in and that breeds uncertainty.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. This was a very well thought out answer, and it made sense

For anyone, I'm curious: how quickly did your firms/groups allow you to "level up" and start to do more challenging or thought-based tasks? How did you deal with the "frustration" of being a low-key secretary in your first year or junior years?

As midlevels (3-5) what is more satisfying about your job now? Or less satisfying?

[Anonymous User]

First year corp associate. Worked 12-14 billable hour days for a while but now it's better, around 9-10. There has always been weekend work, around 10-15 hours. Like many other firms, we are understaffed. However, the scariest part is feeling like no one is checking my work because no one has time to...

[Anonymous User]

Wow this thread has been a pleasant surprise. Some very informative responses; thank you all.

Seems like a TLS/this thread has a mixture of stories ranging from "slammed, billing 80-90+ hrs a week" or "I am a first year, i have no work, should i be worried". Makes it hard to put a finger on where I should be at in terms of feeling in the first couple of months or year.

For the more experienced in here (3+ years?) what are some (intentional or not) ways you have handled the stress or issues that juniors have pointed out? Was it trial by fire? What has surprised you about the corporate biglaw job, good or bad?

M&A third year.

I think the best advice I can give for a junior M&A associate would be to get comfortable with uncertainty.

At least in M&A, so much of the job is just figuring random shit out. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of a seniors office or hung up the phone thinking "I have no clue what to do with any of this." But I think half the job is just being able to live with that feeling of uncertainty.

I soon came to realize that the seniors were more often than not giving me enough information to piece together what I should be doing to "figure out the answer." A lot of times it just took me sitting down with what they gave me, spinning my wheels a bit and then going back to them with some pointed questions. That second meeting almost always focused my tasks and provided meaningful input that the first meeting/phone call (that was completely useless to me) failed to provide.

This has happened time and time again. And often as you deal with more senior people who forget how poorly juniors deal with uncertainty (perhaps because they are so far removed), the lack of initial direction is even worse because they will assume that once you look into the documents/question/etc. you will forge a path towards answering it.

At the end of the day, that is what lawyers do: we are problem solvers. Often those problems aren't readably answerable (or require some asinine amount of legal research that google won't fully answer) which is where we come in and that breeds uncertainty.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. This was a very well thought out answer, and it made sense

For anyone, I'm curious: how quickly did your firms/groups allow you to "level up" and start to do more challenging or thought-based tasks? How did you deal with the "frustration" of being a low-key secretary in your first year or junior years?

As midlevels (3-5) what is more satisfying about your job now? Or less satisfying?

Same anon from above answer.

I would say at least at my firm, if you aren't viewed as a not so great associate, you will basically get as much responsibility as you want. Sometimes it takes you pushing for it or just taking imitative (i.e.: be the first to respond to emails to your team and say should I handle this by doing X, Y and Z) and sometimes it happens because people are just to busy and juniors have to get their hands dirty.

If you want to "level up," I would focus on just have a great attitude and being available. Try not to wait for people to tell you to do things (but also don't be so overzealous that you are beating people to the punch when they otherwise would have/wanted to respond) and generally just offer up solutions/answers/judgments even if they consistently get shot down (my go to phrase is "but I defer to you"). Eventually people will realize you are competent and can be trusted not to say or do something stupid in an email to a client.

How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha.

As a third year now what is more satisfying is that I have a bit more control over my life and if I really want to do something (caveat this by signings/closings/etc. ruin all plans) then I can somewhat rely on my juniors to cover for me and work from my phone.

What is less satisfying is that this job is a pie eating contest, and good work is rewarded with more work (and I don't want more work). That and I guess some of the things I have to learn now/do are starting to get much more complex (i.e.: anyone can do diligence) and take a good chunk of time learning so marking up a purchase agreement which I know can take a 5-6th year 5-10 hours to do would take me 30 which can make life brutal because that basically only gets done on the weekends.

[Anonymous User]

For you first years just want to add that a lot of what you are feeling is common to every first year who has come up through a corp group, but that work from home makes it even harder. IMO training is the most important thing that's missing in a WFH environment, with relationships (including commiserating with your fellow first years) being a close second. Hang in there and try to put your best face on.

[Anonymous User]

Wow this thread has been a pleasant surprise. Some very informative responses; thank you all.

Seems like a TLS/this thread has a mixture of stories ranging from "slammed, billing 80-90+ hrs a week" or "I am a first year, i have no work, should i be worried". Makes it hard to put a finger on where I should be at in terms of feeling in the first couple of months or year.

For the more experienced in here (3+ years?) what are some (intentional or not) ways you have handled the stress or issues that juniors have pointed out? Was it trial by fire? What has surprised you about the corporate biglaw job, good or bad?

M&A third year.

I think the best advice I can give for a junior M&A associate would be to get comfortable with uncertainty.

At least in M&A, so much of the job is just figuring random shit out. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of a seniors office or hung up the phone thinking "I have no clue what to do with any of this." But I think half the job is just being able to live with that feeling of uncertainty.

I soon came to realize that the seniors were more often than not giving me enough information to piece together what I should be doing to "figure out the answer." A lot of times it just took me sitting down with what they gave me, spinning my wheels a bit and then going back to them with some pointed questions. That second meeting almost always focused my tasks and provided meaningful input that the first meeting/phone call (that was completely useless to me) failed to provide.

This has happened time and time again. And often as you deal with more senior people who forget how poorly juniors deal with uncertainty (perhaps because they are so far removed), the lack of initial direction is even worse because they will assume that once you look into the documents/question/etc. you will forge a path towards answering it.

At the end of the day, that is what lawyers do: we are problem solvers. Often those problems aren't readably answerable (or require some asinine amount of legal research that google won't fully answer) which is where we come in and that breeds uncertainty.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. This was a very well thought out answer, and it made sense

For anyone, I'm curious: how quickly did your firms/groups allow you to "level up" and start to do more challenging or thought-based tasks? How did you deal with the "frustration" of being a low-key secretary in your first year or junior years?

As midlevels (3-5) what is more satisfying about your job now? Or less satisfying?

Same anon from above answer.

I would say at least at my firm, if you aren't viewed as a not so great associate, you will basically get as much responsibility as you want. Sometimes it takes you pushing for it or just taking imitative (i.e.: be the first to respond to emails to your team and say should I handle this by doing X, Y and Z) and sometimes it happens because people are just to busy and juniors have to get their hands dirty.

If you want to "level up," I would focus on just have a great attitude and being available. Try not to wait for people to tell you to do things (but also don't be so overzealous that you are beating people to the punch when they otherwise would have/wanted to respond) and generally just offer up solutions/answers/judgments even if they consistently get shot down (my go to phrase is "but I defer to you"). Eventually people will realize you are competent and can be trusted not to say or do something stupid in an email to a client.

How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha.

As a third year now what is more satisfying is that I have a bit more control over my life and if I really want to do something (caveat this by signings/closings/etc. ruin all plans) then I can somewhat rely on my juniors to cover for me and work from my phone.

What is less satisfying is that this job is a pie eating contest, and good work is rewarded with more work (and I don't want more work). That and I guess some of the things I have to learn now/do are starting to get much more complex (i.e.: anyone can do diligence) and take a good chunk of time learning so marking up a purchase agreement which I know can take a 5-6th year 5-10 hours to do would take me 30 which can make life brutal because that basically only gets done on the weekends.

Bit off topic but you’re talking like you’re not a junior yiurself. As a third year associate, I (and midlevel/senior colleagues) still very much view you as a junior associate

[jotarokujo]

Wow this thread has been a pleasant surprise. Some very informative responses; thank you all.

Seems like a TLS/this thread has a mixture of stories ranging from "slammed, billing 80-90+ hrs a week" or "I am a first year, i have no work, should i be worried". Makes it hard to put a finger on where I should be at in terms of feeling in the first couple of months or year.

For the more experienced in here (3+ years?) what are some (intentional or not) ways you have handled the stress or issues that juniors have pointed out? Was it trial by fire? What has surprised you about the corporate biglaw job, good or bad?

M&A third year.

I think the best advice I can give for a junior M&A associate would be to get comfortable with uncertainty.

At least in M&A, so much of the job is just figuring random shit out. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of a seniors office or hung up the phone thinking "I have no clue what to do with any of this." But I think half the job is just being able to live with that feeling of uncertainty.

I soon came to realize that the seniors were more often than not giving me enough information to piece together what I should be doing to "figure out the answer." A lot of times it just took me sitting down with what they gave me, spinning my wheels a bit and then going back to them with some pointed questions. That second meeting almost always focused my tasks and provided meaningful input that the first meeting/phone call (that was completely useless to me) failed to provide.

This has happened time and time again. And often as you deal with more senior people who forget how poorly juniors deal with uncertainty (perhaps because they are so far removed), the lack of initial direction is even worse because they will assume that once you look into the documents/question/etc. you will forge a path towards answering it.

At the end of the day, that is what lawyers do: we are problem solvers. Often those problems aren't readably answerable (or require some asinine amount of legal research that google won't fully answer) which is where we come in and that breeds uncertainty.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. This was a very well thought out answer, and it made sense

For anyone, I'm curious: how quickly did your firms/groups allow you to "level up" and start to do more challenging or thought-based tasks? How did you deal with the "frustration" of being a low-key secretary in your first year or junior years?

As midlevels (3-5) what is more satisfying about your job now? Or less satisfying?

Same anon from above answer.

I would say at least at my firm, if you aren't viewed as a not so great associate, you will basically get as much responsibility as you want. Sometimes it takes you pushing for it or just taking imitative (i.e.: be the first to respond to emails to your team and say should I handle this by doing X, Y and Z) and sometimes it happens because people are just to busy and juniors have to get their hands dirty.

If you want to "level up," I would focus on just have a great attitude and being available. Try not to wait for people to tell you to do things (but also don't be so overzealous that you are beating people to the punch when they otherwise would have/wanted to respond) and generally just offer up solutions/answers/judgments even if they consistently get shot down (my go to phrase is "but I defer to you"). Eventually people will realize you are competent and can be trusted not to say or do something stupid in an email to a client.

How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha.

As a third year now what is more satisfying is that I have a bit more control over my life and if I really want to do something (caveat this by signings/closings/etc. ruin all plans) then I can somewhat rely on my juniors to cover for me and work from my phone.

What is less satisfying is that this job is a pie eating contest, and good work is rewarded with more work (and I don't want more work). That and I guess some of the things I have to learn now/do are starting to get much more complex (i.e.: anyone can do diligence) and take a good chunk of time learning so marking up a purchase agreement which I know can take a 5-6th year 5-10 hours to do would take me 30 which can make life brutal because that basically only gets done on the weekends.

I wonder if the mindset of only taking non-substantive work could make it harder to go in-house/lateral because of lack of experience

[midwestrocks]

Working with a senior associate now who is a nightmare. Will call me on my phone with no warning and get mad at me for not picking up. Unreasonable about when things are due. Overly nitpicky about minor things in assignments and wont give me any interesting or high impact work despite the fact that I have asked for it. Complained about them to a partner so hopefully they will treat me better or get fired.

Maybe you are right that is person is a nightmare, but calling someone without warning is not unreasonable unless it's late at night. It's kind of the purpose of a phone....you call people.

[Anonymous User]

Working with a senior associate now who is a nightmare. Will call me on my phone with no warning and get mad at me for not picking up. Unreasonable about when things are due. Overly nitpicky about minor things in assignments and wont give me any interesting or high impact work despite the fact that I have asked for it. Complained about them to a partner so hopefully they will treat me better or get fired.

Maybe you are right that is person is a nightmare, but calling someone without warning is not unreasonable unless it's late at night. It's kind of the purpose of a phone....you call people.

This is a meme post from an earlier TLS thread where some midlevel was getting slighted by his/her apparently incompetent junior associate.

[Anonymous User]

This kind of thinking is outdated and harmful. The effort it takes to formalize training programs and implementing training is miniscule compared to the dividends resulting from training associates. Not training associates--especially if they do not seek it out--shackles associates to a firm so that they have no substantive knowledge of the law, all while furthering inequality.

The only helpful comment you made is keeping a list of precedents.

So, do you mean actual formal training sessions with an instructor kind of thing? Or just an individual more senior person (associate or partner) actually explaining to an associate how to do whatever assignment it is they've just given the associate to do, and why they're doing it? How much of the former actually takes place in biglaw firms and what kinds of things does it cover? It's hard for me to think that people don't learn substantive knowledge of the law through actually doing the work that they have to do.

Yes. Transactional work where you are given zero context, a shitty precedent, and told to make the new document based on the precedent. That teaches soooo much about the law.

People definitely learn over time if only because they hear the same buzz words over and over again. But it emphatically does not teach someone about the law. Reading the law teaches you about the law... At best, those tasks help with learning how to draft.

But it's totally reasonable to conform something based on precedent only for the senior to rip language from the precedent to shreds even if the business point is exactly same between deals.

I swear. If a senior does not like you, they give you a draft precedent from years ago, which their senior marked to hell when they submitted it, just so they can mark yours to hell too. Its absolutely insane how the quality of precedent provided differs in quality.

And being told "it depends" when asking any question ever is similarly stupid.

[Anonymous User]

Wow this thread has been a pleasant surprise. Some very informative responses; thank you all.

Seems like a TLS/this thread has a mixture of stories ranging from "slammed, billing 80-90+ hrs a week" or "I am a first year, i have no work, should i be worried". Makes it hard to put a finger on where I should be at in terms of feeling in the first couple of months or year.

For the more experienced in here (3+ years?) what are some (intentional or not) ways you have handled the stress or issues that juniors have pointed out? Was it trial by fire? What has surprised you about the corporate biglaw job, good or bad?

M&A third year.

I think the best advice I can give for a junior M&A associate would be to get comfortable with uncertainty.

At least in M&A, so much of the job is just figuring random shit out. I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of a seniors office or hung up the phone thinking "I have no clue what to do with any of this." But I think half the job is just being able to live with that feeling of uncertainty.

I soon came to realize that the seniors were more often than not giving me enough information to piece together what I should be doing to "figure out the answer." A lot of times it just took me sitting down with what they gave me, spinning my wheels a bit and then going back to them with some pointed questions. That second meeting almost always focused my tasks and provided meaningful input that the first meeting/phone call (that was completely useless to me) failed to provide.

This has happened time and time again. And often as you deal with more senior people who forget how poorly juniors deal with uncertainty (perhaps because they are so far removed), the lack of initial direction is even worse because they will assume that once you look into the documents/question/etc. you will forge a path towards answering it.

At the end of the day, that is what lawyers do: we are problem solvers. Often those problems aren't readably answerable (or require some asinine amount of legal research that google won't fully answer) which is where we come in and that breeds uncertainty.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. This was a very well thought out answer, and it made sense

For anyone, I'm curious: how quickly did your firms/groups allow you to "level up" and start to do more challenging or thought-based tasks? How did you deal with the "frustration" of being a low-key secretary in your first year or junior years?

As midlevels (3-5) what is more satisfying about your job now? Or less satisfying?

Same anon from above answer.

I would say at least at my firm, if you aren't viewed as a not so great associate, you will basically get as much responsibility as you want. Sometimes it takes you pushing for it or just taking imitative (i.e.: be the first to respond to emails to your team and say should I handle this by doing X, Y and Z) and sometimes it happens because people are just to busy and juniors have to get their hands dirty.

If you want to "level up," I would focus on just have a great attitude and being available. Try not to wait for people to tell you to do things (but also don't be so overzealous that you are beating people to the punch when they otherwise would have/wanted to respond) and generally just offer up solutions/answers/judgments even if they consistently get shot down (my go to phrase is "but I defer to you"). Eventually people will realize you are competent and can be trusted not to say or do something stupid in an email to a client.

How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha.

As a third year now what is more satisfying is that I have a bit more control over my life and if I really want to do something (caveat this by signings/closings/etc. ruin all plans) then I can somewhat rely on my juniors to cover for me and work from my phone.

What is less satisfying is that this job is a pie eating contest, and good work is rewarded with more work (and I don't want more work). That and I guess some of the things I have to learn now/do are starting to get much more complex (i.e.: anyone can do diligence) and take a good chunk of time learning so marking up a purchase agreement which I know can take a 5-6th year 5-10 hours to do would take me 30 which can make life brutal because that basically only gets done on the weekends.

Bit off topic but you’re talking like you’re not a junior yiurself. As a third year associate, I (and midlevel/senior colleagues) still very much view you as a junior associate

Congratulations. Interesting you perceived it that way. I guess to be clear when I refer to the term "juniors" i'm referring to those working directly under me that I'm able to delegate work too and oversee (e.g.: when running a diligence process, closing or the like).

At my firm third years are considered mid-levels (FWIW) and start working on deals directly with partners (albeit smaller and less complicated transaction obviously). I'm sure there are those at my firm (like you) that view me as a junior and I don't see anything wrong with that but not sure if that makes anything I said above any less valuable for those who are more junior to me.

Perhaps you want to disagree with something I said that you think is misconstrued based on your experience?

[Anonymous User]

"How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha"

to clarify, if one only did diligence, wouldnt that make it quite difficult to lateral or go in house?

[Anonymous User]

"How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha"

to clarify, if one only did diligence, wouldnt that make it quite difficult to lateral or go in house?

I would think so. To be clear that is how I felt as a first year. My progression so far has been in line with the below and I think set's me up very well to lateral or go in-house.

First year - mostly diligence/drafting ancillaries for closings/signing bot (prep signature pages, run blacklines, turn comments)

Second year - run diligence/run closing with support of senior/draft ancillary signing documents and run with disclosure schedules

Third year - All the above plus start taking the first stab at marking-up purchase agreements and preparing issues lists/point of contact for many clients emails

[Anonymous User]

"How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha"

to clarify, if one only did diligence, wouldnt that make it quite difficult to lateral or go in house?

I would think so. To be clear that is how I felt as a first year. My progression so far has been in line with the below and I think set's me up very well to lateral or go in-house.

First year - mostly diligence/drafting ancillaries for closings/signing bot (prep signature pages, run blacklines, turn comments)

Second year - run diligence/run closing with support of senior/draft ancillary signing documents and run with disclosure schedules

Third year - All the above plus start taking the first stab at marking-up purchase agreements and preparing issues lists/point of contact for many clients emails

Any other first years here end up being the point of contact for client emails? Stresses me out so much.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard of a firm making a large number of its first year lit associates work corporate for several months?

[Anonymous User]

First year and am very miserable working for this one senior. After sending me five conflicting directions and snapping at me/demanding me to produce the work product at that moment, I was in tears (this person had snapped at me for ridiculous reasons before, such as answering a non-urgent email 20 min late). And when I called this senior to clarify, practically in tears at this point senior yelled at me that I did not greet the senior on the phone by saying "Hi". Senior yelled at me and demanded I repeat back "Hi X name" on the phone. Truly miserable.

[Dcc617]

First year and am very miserable working for this one senior. After sending me five conflicting directions and snapping at me/demanding me to produce the work product at that moment, I was in tears (this person had snapped at me for ridiculous reasons before, such as answering a non-urgent email 20 min late). And when I called this senior to clarify, practically in tears at this point senior yelled at me that I did not greet the senior on the phone by saying "Hi". Senior yelled at me and demanded I repeat back "Hi X name" on the phone. Truly miserable.

That's not okay. I don't know what firm you're with, but you don't have to put up with that. It's not normal or expected. Point blank.

Honestly if I were you I'd just blow off this associate until they restaff you and focus on doing work for non totally crazy people. I guarantee you this associate has a reputation for being a lunatic.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard of a firm making a large number of its first year lit associates work corporate for several months?

First year and am very miserable working for this one senior. After sending me five conflicting directions and snapping at me/demanding me to produce the work product at that moment, I was in tears (this person had snapped at me for ridiculous reasons before, such as answering a non-urgent email 20 min late). And when I called this senior to clarify, practically in tears at this point senior yelled at me that I did not greet the senior on the phone by saying "Hi". Senior yelled at me and demanded I repeat back "Hi X name" on the phone. Truly miserable.

Is the pandemic creating an especially terrible time for first years or does big law really just suck this bad all the time? A lot of my fellow first years are miserable to the point of looking to get out asap. I knew turnover was high in big law, but didn't expect it to be this horrible.

[Anonymous User]

First year and am very miserable working for this one senior. After sending me five conflicting directions and snapping at me/demanding me to produce the work product at that moment, I was in tears (this person had snapped at me for ridiculous reasons before, such as answering a non-urgent email 20 min late). And when I called this senior to clarify, practically in tears at this point senior yelled at me that I did not greet the senior on the phone by saying "Hi". Senior yelled at me and demanded I repeat back "Hi X name" on the phone. Truly miserable.

I’ve worked for some massive dicks. And a few which probably have the same personality traits as this person (unrealistic expectations on timing, micromanaging, “knowing your place”). This is some absurd, non-normal behavior even by those standards.

[Anonymous User]

"How did I deal with the frustration? Well I'm not sure I ever got that frustrated. Most of the times I was like thank god i'm just over here reading contracts in diligence and don't actually have to answer the client's 20 emails and field their random calls. Part of me was terrified of not being prepared for all that so it helped me want to stay junior for as long as possible haha"

to clarify, if one only did diligence, wouldnt that make it quite difficult to lateral or go in house?

I would think so. To be clear that is how I felt as a first year. My progression so far has been in line with the below and I think set's me up very well to lateral or go in-house.

First year - mostly diligence/drafting ancillaries for closings/signing bot (prep signature pages, run blacklines, turn comments)

Second year - run diligence/run closing with support of senior/draft ancillary signing documents and run with disclosure schedules

Third year - All the above plus start taking the first stab at marking-up purchase agreements and preparing issues lists/point of contact for many clients emails

Any other first years here end up being the point of contact for client emails? Stresses me out so much.

Sounds so fucking boring. I have no idea how people go to law school then choose to do this instead of lit.

[Sackboy]

Sounds so fucking boring. I have no idea how people go to law school then choose to do this instead of lit.

To be fair, if you're a corporate specialist, this is not what your life is like at all. Your due diligence load is far more tolerable and focused, you will start drafting memos in your first few weeks, and you should be taking first passes at disclosure schedules and purchase agreements within six months. From there, you get much better at it through sheer volume, and you kind of build the room to start learning the substance of your area and becoming a real expert.

[Anonymous User]

Anon who posted about the awful senior associate making my life miserable. Does anyone have advice as to how to deal with this person? This person calls other seniors and tells them I have to do his work. Unfortunately, the firm isn’t free market so I cannot say no to working with him

[Dcc617]

Anon who posted about the awful senior associate making my life miserable. Does anyone have advice as to how to deal with this person? This person calls other seniors and tells them I have to do his work. Unfortunately, the firm isn’t free market so I cannot say no to working with him

Nuclear option is obviously HR. But you’re a first year, so easiest option is just to deprioritize and half ass his work until he leaves you alone. Nobody will hold you not being able to work with a problematic associate against you as a first year. Just do good work for other people.

ETA I quit biglaw as a second year, so keep that in mind.

[Anonymous User]

Anon who posted about the awful senior associate making my life miserable. Does anyone have advice as to how to deal with this person? This person calls other seniors and tells them I have to do his work. Unfortunately, the firm isn’t free market so I cannot say no to working with him

If your staffing isn't free market, is it run through a central staffing coordinator? If so, try talking to them about trying to branch out and working with other seniors, for other partners, on other clients, etc. for when you get done with the current deal for this senior. If you're ok with other groups within corporate and that's something they can assign you work from, depending on how your firm's corporate division is organized, you can try that too.