Choosing between QE NY and Williams & Connolly DC Forum

[Anonymous User]

While it's true that you can't eat prestige, the comp difference isn't that material for a biglawyer, especially considering QE's strong rep for stingy perks and long hours. The diminishing marginal utility of money is a thing. And there are probably long-term educational benefits to working in a pretty small environment with some of the country's best white collar and trial partners and maybe the country's most highly-credentialed associates vs. QE, which is closer to just another biglaw firm but without corporate. I'll never be in a position to make this decision but if a young lawyer asked me my gut would definitely be W&C notwithstanding the comp issue.

1. QE slaughters W&C in some lit areas like patent lit which are more lucrative than something like white collar to begin with. The prestige is overhyped. Not sure what makes a firm prestigious when prestige doesn't translate to actual value even for the firm. Me, I would rather be at the firm with the 1.5x higher RPL and 3x higher PPP....

2. The more money you amass early on, the more quickly you can turn it into passive income and retire. So yes, the marginal money difference matters. Will also say even if more money has a marginal value the year 8 345k at W&C is a near 30% lower than the market 480k. In what world is a 30% reduction not material?

3. Based on the salary cut reduction "not material," statement why even care about prestige? If the end goal isn't higher paying partnership then you don't even need the prestige and can just try for senior associate making 500k or for Partnership at an easier firm making around 800k and claim there is "no material difference" between you and some other partner making 3m+.

4. All biglaw firms suck; despite the reputation, it is doubtful QE is all that different form W&C in actual workload. Hell a few years back Fish was the firm with the highest average billed hours per Above the law and it has a very positive reputation there generally.

5. Again who cares about W&Cs perks; with the extra money you can buy that stuff for yourself. Patterson and Sheridan has their own private jet much less first class tickets... yet you see people flocking there for the perks that apparently justify being underpaid. Fenwick is another great example; they have multiple vacation condos they allow associates to use, fund airfare for this vacation, and still manage to pay market.

This sort of unnecessary aggressiveness paired with less-than-great reasoning reminds me of a lot of QE lawyers, ironically.

lmfao

[Anonymous User]

This sort of unnecessary aggressiveness paired with less-than-great reasoning reminds me of a lot of QE lawyers, ironically.

I just read this Bloomberg article about a Federal Circuit judge dressing down Quinn's top appellate lawyer at an argument yesterday, and calling him overly "aggressive" and "disrespectful." Reminded me of this post.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1555389 ... arch-alert

[Anonymous User]

In general I think firm "reputation" is sort of silly but ...

In my NY BigLaw lit circles, Quinn is probably the one firm that is like, despised to the point that having them on your resume would be viewed as disqualifying for a lateral candidate.

[Anonymous User]

Work at a top end plaintiff lit boutique and often work with Quinn and against W&C. Both, from my point of view, have a scorched earth view of litigation. The problem is that Quinn takes that view when you are on the same side and it’s just annoying and silly, especially when they are wrong substantively. They are old school pound the table folks.

Between these two, I would pick neither. I rather go to Susman and get paid and at least know if I will make partner within 5 years. Hours are likely going to be the same at W&C and Quinn, although my friends at Quinn usually have to bill 2600-2700 to get a bonus (which is wild).

[Anonymous User]

Work at a top end plaintiff lit boutique and often work with Quinn and against W&C. Both, from my point of view, have a scorched earth view of litigation. The problem is that Quinn takes that view when you are on the same side and it’s just annoying and silly, especially when they are wrong substantively. They are old school pound the table folks.

Between these two, I would pick neither. I rather go to Susman and get paid and at least know if I will make partner within 5 years. Hours are likely going to be the same at W&C and Quinn, although my friends at Quinn usually have to bill 2600-2700 to get a bonus (which is wild).

OP is asking for advice on if they should get $100 in fives or tens and your advice is to reject both offers and opt for a million-dollar cashier's check.

[Anonymous User]

In general I think firm "reputation" is sort of silly but ...

In my NY BigLaw lit circles, Quinn is probably the one firm that is like, despised to the point that having them on your resume would be viewed as disqualifying for a lateral candidate.

Anon for obvious reasons. Current QE associate. Can only speak for my experience but I still haven't seen one instance of QE crossing any lines or trying to ruin opposing counsel's holidays or anything like that. I have seen opposing counsel do this. My theory is that litigation is contentious and you always hate the other side. Again, my experience is limited and maybe this used to be a QE tactic or there are partners that I don't work with that pull this kind of stuff but I haven't seen it.

To answer OP's question though, seems like W&C DC is the obvious answer. If you're getting a W&C offer, you are probably the kind of candidate that could lateral wherever later if you change your mind. And DC is harder to break into than NY.

[Anonymous User]

Work at a top end plaintiff lit boutique and often work with Quinn and against W&C. Both, from my point of view, have a scorched earth view of litigation. The problem is that Quinn takes that view when you are on the same side and it’s just annoying and silly, especially when they are wrong substantively. They are old school pound the table folks.

Between these two, I would pick neither. I rather go to Susman and get paid and at least know if I will make partner within 5 years. Hours are likely going to be the same at W&C and Quinn, although my friends at Quinn usually have to bill 2600-2700 to get a bonus (which is wild).

As a current QE associate I can confirm that, while this would indeed be "wild," it is just wrong. The clear policy for years has been that associates need to hit 2100 hours to get a market bonus. There is an above-market kicker if you bill over 2400 and another kicker for billing over 2700. Also, so long as you bill 2000 hours in the year, 2nd-through-5th years get an additional retention bonus that is usually around $50-70K (though it doesn't get paid out unless you stay with the firm for another 3 years). So basically, as long as you bill 2100 hours a year, you are getting significantly higher than market comp. You get a market bonus immediately and another significant bonus that vests 3 years later. Also, it's an awesome place to work.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve never worked there or across from them, but I’ve heard from many people (both at Quinn and other firms) that Quinn NY has some partners who routinely engage in unethical litigation practices, to an extent that’s notably different from other biglaw firms.

[Anonymous User]

In general I think firm "reputation" is sort of silly but ...

In my NY BigLaw lit circles, Quinn is probably the one firm that is like, despised to the point that having them on your resume would be viewed as disqualifying for a lateral candidate.

Anon for obvious reasons. Current QE associate. Can only speak for my experience but I still haven't seen one instance of QE crossing any lines or trying to ruin opposing counsel's holidays or anything like that. I have seen opposing counsel do this. My theory is that litigation is contentious and you always hate the other side. Again, my experience is limited and maybe this used to be a QE tactic or there are partners that I don't work with that pull this kind of stuff but I haven't seen it.

I think Twitter/Musk (as a very recent example) must be viewed very differently in QE than externally then

[Anonymous User]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a Quinn question. I am a 2L who is very interested in working for Quinn because I only want to do litigation, remote work is very important to me, and I like their free market system. I did my best to get a 2L SA there but got dinged, so I'm doing a litigation SA with a different V20. Can anyone tell me anything about 3L OCI for Quinn? I can't find any information about it on the website.

For instance: when would this process happen? Should I just reach out to recruiters over the summer? Would I have to chance to try and apply before I got a possible return offer from my firm? How common is this? (I want to work for Quinn but I can't turn down a biglaw offer just on the chance that they would hire me at 3L OCI.)

Further, can anyone give me advice more broadly about the process of later lateraling or post-clerkship hiring there?

I have top 10% grades at a low T14. I understand the consensus ITT is W&C over Quinn but I'm 99% not getting into W&C anyway lol. Please just give me helpful advice instead of shitting on Quinn or me.

[Anonymous User]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a Quinn question. I am a 2L who is very interested in working for Quinn because I only want to do litigation, remote work is very important to me, and I like their free market system. I did my best to get a 2L SA there but got dinged, so I'm doing a litigation SA with a different V20. Can anyone tell me anything about 3L OCI for Quinn? I can't find any information about it on the website.

For instance: when would this process happen? Should I just reach out to recruiters over the summer? Would I have to chance to try and apply before I got a possible return offer from my firm? How common is this? (I want to work for Quinn but I can't turn down a biglaw offer just on the chance that they would hire me at 3L OCI.)

Further, can anyone give me advice more broadly about the process of later lateraling or post-clerkship hiring there?

I have top 10% grades at a low T14. I understand the consensus ITT is W&C over Quinn but I'm 99% not getting into W&C anyway lol. Please just give me helpful advice instead of shitting on Quinn or me.

If you got dinged during 2L OCI I can't imagine things would be easier during 3L OCI? Are you clerking? If yes, you could try applying after that. If no, you probably should be, especially with your credentials. For what it's worth, Quinn isn't the only (or best) game in town even for the metrics you laid out (litigation, remote work, free market). With your grades, you should be taking a close look at some of boutiques.

[Anonymous User]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a Quinn question. I am a 2L who is very interested in working for Quinn because I only want to do litigation, remote work is very important to me, and I like their free market system. I did my best to get a 2L SA there but got dinged, so I'm doing a litigation SA with a different V20. Can anyone tell me anything about 3L OCI for Quinn? I can't find any information about it on the website.

For instance: when would this process happen? Should I just reach out to recruiters over the summer? Would I have to chance to try and apply before I got a possible return offer from my firm? How common is this? (I want to work for Quinn but I can't turn down a biglaw offer just on the chance that they would hire me at 3L OCI.)

Further, can anyone give me advice more broadly about the process of later lateraling or post-clerkship hiring there?

I have top 10% grades at a low T14. I understand the consensus ITT is W&C over Quinn but I'm 99% not getting into W&C anyway lol. Please just give me helpful advice instead of shitting on Quinn or me.

If you got dinged during 2L OCI I can't imagine things would be easier during 3L OCI? Are you clerking? If yes, you could try applying after that. If no, you probably should be, especially with your credentials. For what it's worth, Quinn isn't the only (or best) game in town even for the metrics you laid out (litigation, remote work, free market). With your grades, you should be taking a close look at some of boutiques.

I was going to apply to clerkships but have no guarantee that I will succeed. I assumed Quinn was the best path to my main goal of getting a litigation, remote only market paying offer. Can you give examples of other opportunities for that or paths to that (boutiques, etc)?

[Anonymous User]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a Quinn question. I am a 2L who is very interested in working for Quinn because I only want to do litigation, remote work is very important to me, and I like their free market system. I did my best to get a 2L SA there but got dinged, so I'm doing a litigation SA with a different V20. Can anyone tell me anything about 3L OCI for Quinn? I can't find any information about it on the website.

For instance: when would this process happen? Should I just reach out to recruiters over the summer? Would I have to chance to try and apply before I got a possible return offer from my firm? How common is this? (I want to work for Quinn but I can't turn down a biglaw offer just on the chance that they would hire me at 3L OCI.)

Further, can anyone give me advice more broadly about the process of later lateraling or post-clerkship hiring there?

I have top 10% grades at a low T14. I understand the consensus ITT is W&C over Quinn but I'm 99% not getting into W&C anyway lol. Please just give me helpful advice instead of shitting on Quinn or me.

If you got dinged during 2L OCI I can't imagine things would be easier during 3L OCI? Are you clerking? If yes, you could try applying after that. If no, you probably should be, especially with your credentials. For what it's worth, Quinn isn't the only (or best) game in town even for the metrics you laid out (litigation, remote work, free market). With your grades, you should be taking a close look at some of boutiques.

I was going to apply to clerkships but have no guarantee that I will succeed. I assumed Quinn was the best path to my main goal of getting a litigation, remote only market paying offer. Can you give examples of other opportunities for that or paths to that (boutiques, etc)?

Quinn is the only big firm that regularly offers remote-only. Other big firms have arranged full-time remote for the right associates. Some elite boutiques are more flexible (Cooper & Kirk, Reichmman Jorgensen, Stris & Maher, ...).

[Anonymous User]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a Quinn question. I am a 2L who is very interested in working for Quinn because I only want to do litigation, remote work is very important to me, and I like their free market system. I did my best to get a 2L SA there but got dinged, so I'm doing a litigation SA with a different V20. Can anyone tell me anything about 3L OCI for Quinn? I can't find any information about it on the website.

For instance: when would this process happen? Should I just reach out to recruiters over the summer? Would I have to chance to try and apply before I got a possible return offer from my firm? How common is this? (I want to work for Quinn but I can't turn down a biglaw offer just on the chance that they would hire me at 3L OCI.)

Further, can anyone give me advice more broadly about the process of later lateraling or post-clerkship hiring there?

I have top 10% grades at a low T14. I understand the consensus ITT is W&C over Quinn but I'm 99% not getting into W&C anyway lol. Please just give me helpful advice instead of shitting on Quinn or me.

If you got dinged during 2L OCI I can't imagine things would be easier during 3L OCI? Are you clerking? If yes, you could try applying after that. If no, you probably should be, especially with your credentials. For what it's worth, Quinn isn't the only (or best) game in town even for the metrics you laid out (litigation, remote work, free market). With your grades, you should be taking a close look at some of boutiques.

I was going to apply to clerkships but have no guarantee that I will succeed. I assumed Quinn was the best path to my main goal of getting a litigation, remote only market paying offer. Can you give examples of other opportunities for that or paths to that (boutiques, etc)?

Quinn is the only big firm that regularly offers remote-only. Other big firms have arranged full-time remote for the right associates. Some elite boutiques are more flexible (Cooper & Kirk, Reichmman Jorgensen, Stris & Maher, ...).

What's the vibe/rep at Reichmann? I had a buddy do a few weeks there at the end of their summer and they loved it but I'd never heard of them before

[Anonymous User]

Wanted to revive this thread to ask a Quinn question. I am a 2L who is very interested in working for Quinn because I only want to do litigation, remote work is very important to me, and I like their free market system. I did my best to get a 2L SA there but got dinged, so I'm doing a litigation SA with a different V20. Can anyone tell me anything about 3L OCI for Quinn? I can't find any information about it on the website.

For instance: when would this process happen? Should I just reach out to recruiters over the summer? Would I have to chance to try and apply before I got a possible return offer from my firm? How common is this? (I want to work for Quinn but I can't turn down a biglaw offer just on the chance that they would hire me at 3L OCI.)

Further, can anyone give me advice more broadly about the process of later lateraling or post-clerkship hiring there?

I have top 10% grades at a low T14. I understand the consensus ITT is W&C over Quinn but I'm 99% not getting into W&C anyway lol. Please just give me helpful advice instead of shitting on Quinn or me.

If you got dinged during 2L OCI I can't imagine things would be easier during 3L OCI? Are you clerking? If yes, you could try applying after that. If no, you probably should be, especially with your credentials. For what it's worth, Quinn isn't the only (or best) game in town even for the metrics you laid out (litigation, remote work, free market). With your grades, you should be taking a close look at some of boutiques.

I was going to apply to clerkships but have no guarantee that I will succeed. I assumed Quinn was the best path to my main goal of getting a litigation, remote only market paying offer. Can you give examples of other opportunities for that or paths to that (boutiques, etc)?

Quinn is the only big firm that regularly offers remote-only. Other big firms have arranged full-time remote for the right associates. Some elite boutiques are more flexible (Cooper & Kirk, Reichmman Jorgensen, Stris & Maher, ...).

What's the vibe/rep at Reichmann? I had a buddy do a few weeks there at the end of their summer and they loved it but I'd never heard of them before

Small, entrepreneurial, nimble. They do a lot of patent work. Don't know the people personally but haven't heard a bad word about any of them.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Similar situation. Different poster.

Interviewed at both locations during the past few months (tryin be discrete). Some initial observations and please comment.

First, I found W&C to be very stuffy. People looked tired, in the office, not very happy and frankly not very friendly. Trying to tell myself otherwise, but I just didn’t get a lot of energy from the associates. Granted, none of the people I talked to practiced the type of law I was interested in (i.e., white collar) so maybe I should talk to others who do. Just a bad vibe. Also, they sounded liked they worked ALOT. And they don’t get paid market. Frankly, that sucks and on top of that, they looked depressed in the office.

Quinn, on the other hand, everyone is friendly and warm. They pay above market, and they looked comfortable and refreshed. I don’t know. Tell me I’m not crazy. At the end of the day, is the “reputation” difference really worth it? Need guidance.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Similar situation. Different poster.

Interviewed at both locations during the past few months (tryin be discrete). Some initial observations and please comment.

First, I found W&C to be very stuffy. People looked tired, in the office, not very happy and frankly not very friendly. Trying to tell myself otherwise, but I just didn’t get a lot of energy from the associates. Granted, none of the people I talked to practiced the type of law I was interested in (i.e., white collar) so maybe I should talk to others who do. Just a bad vibe. Also, they sounded liked they worked ALOT. And they don’t get paid market. Frankly, that sucks and on top of that, they looked depressed in the office.

Quinn, on the other hand, everyone is friendly and warm. They pay above market, and they looked comfortable and refreshed. I don’t know. Tell me I’m not crazy. At the end of the day, is the “reputation” difference really worth it? Need guidance.

I agree with your W&C observations for the most part, but idk in my experience I would not call Quinn people "comfortable and refreshed" and/or "friendly and warm."

[Anonymous User]

WC is at least market through third year (315k). Can anyone provide the scale at higher levels? FWIW, I had a good experience visiting their new office. Can't add anything about Quinn (and I personally like working in an office, so the wfh perk adds nothing for me)

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Similar situation. Different poster.

Interviewed at both locations during the past few months (tryin be discrete). Some initial observations and please comment.

First, I found W&C to be very stuffy. People looked tired, in the office, not very happy and frankly not very friendly. Trying to tell myself otherwise, but I just didn’t get a lot of energy from the associates. Granted, none of the people I talked to practiced the type of law I was interested in (i.e., white collar) so maybe I should talk to others who do. Just a bad vibe. Also, they sounded liked they worked ALOT. And they don’t get paid market. Frankly, that sucks and on top of that, they looked depressed in the office.

Quinn, on the other hand, everyone is friendly and warm. They pay above market, and they looked comfortable and refreshed. I don’t know. Tell me I’m not crazy. At the end of the day, is the “reputation” difference really worth it? Need guidance.

You visited the Quinn NY office? The physical office can cause depression on its own imo

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Similar situation. Different poster.

Interviewed at both locations during the past few months (tryin be discrete). Some initial observations and please comment.

First, I found W&C to be very stuffy. People looked tired, in the office, not very happy and frankly not very friendly. Trying to tell myself otherwise, but I just didn’t get a lot of energy from the associates. Granted, none of the people I talked to practiced the type of law I was interested in (i.e., white collar) so maybe I should talk to others who do. Just a bad vibe. Also, they sounded liked they worked ALOT. And they don’t get paid market. Frankly, that sucks and on top of that, they looked depressed in the office.

Quinn, on the other hand, everyone is friendly and warm. They pay above market, and they looked comfortable and refreshed. I don’t know. Tell me I’m not crazy. At the end of the day, is the “reputation” difference really worth it? Need guidance.

I agree with your W&C observations for the most part, but idk in my experience I would not call Quinn people "comfortable and refreshed" and/or "friendly and warm."

Poster here. I just had great interviews with all 6-8 Quinn people. They joked. Laughed. Smiled. Etc. Had the same amount of interviews with W&C and could barely get a smile. Then they beamed about the 1 to 1 staffing (1 partner to 1 associate) on some matters. You can’t tell me 1-1 does not equal long hours… for below market? Really trying to figure out what that “thing” is I’m missing in this equation. What is this intangible and is it worth it?

[Anonymous User]

Poster here. I just had great interviews with all 6-8 Quinn people. They joked. Laughed. Smiled. Etc. Had the same amount of interviews with W&C and could barely get a smile. Then they beamed about the 1 to 1 staffing (1 partner to 1 associate) on some matters. You can’t tell me 1-1 does not equal long hours… for below market? Really trying to figure out what that “thing” is I’m missing in this equation. What is this intangible and is it worth it?

the intangible is a stronger white collar practice, more substantive experience earlier, higher odds of partnership, better exits, better connections

also, no way WC has higher hours than Quinn. At Quinn, a lot of partners hold 2400 as the goal

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Similar situation. Different poster.

Interviewed at both locations during the past few months (tryin be discrete). Some initial observations and please comment.

First, I found W&C to be very stuffy. People looked tired, in the office, not very happy and frankly not very friendly. Trying to tell myself otherwise, but I just didn’t get a lot of energy from the associates. Granted, none of the people I talked to practiced the type of law I was interested in (i.e., white collar) so maybe I should talk to others who do. Just a bad vibe. Also, they sounded liked they worked ALOT. And they don’t get paid market. Frankly, that sucks and on top of that, they looked depressed in the office.

Quinn, on the other hand, everyone is friendly and warm. They pay above market, and they looked comfortable and refreshed. I don’t know. Tell me I’m not crazy. At the end of the day, is the “reputation” difference really worth it? Need guidance.

I agree with your W&C observations for the most part, but idk in my experience I would not call Quinn people "comfortable and refreshed" and/or "friendly and warm."

Poster here. I just had great interviews with all 6-8 Quinn people. They joked. Laughed. Smiled. Etc. Had the same amount of interviews with W&C and could barely get a smile. Then they beamed about the 1 to 1 staffing (1 partner to 1 associate) on some matters. You can’t tell me 1-1 does not equal long hours… for below market? Really trying to figure out what that “thing” is I’m missing in this equation. What is this intangible and is it worth it?

I've been at QE NY for years. I am comfy, refreshed, and very happy with the above-market comp and benefits. I work 100% from home. And what you are perceiving about the firm culture is accurate. It is a really fun, friendly, and exciting environment, whereas as far as I can tell 99.9% of all other firms are stodgy and miserable. Everyone is always cracking jokes and just generally having a great time (considering the circumstances). My cases are all super interesting, and the work I do is always engaging, never dull. There is no annoying, unnecessary hierarchy or overbearing management. There is no non-billable work required of you. All in all just a great place to be a litigator. Come on in, the water's fine!

PS- happy to answer any questions.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread. Similar situation. Different poster.

Interviewed at both locations during the past few months (tryin be discrete). Some initial observations and please comment.

First, I found W&C to be very stuffy. People looked tired, in the office, not very happy and frankly not very friendly. Trying to tell myself otherwise, but I just didn’t get a lot of energy from the associates. Granted, none of the people I talked to practiced the type of law I was interested in (i.e., white collar) so maybe I should talk to others who do. Just a bad vibe. Also, they sounded liked they worked ALOT. And they don’t get paid market. Frankly, that sucks and on top of that, they looked depressed in the office.

Quinn, on the other hand, everyone is friendly and warm. They pay above market, and they looked comfortable and refreshed. I don’t know. Tell me I’m not crazy. At the end of the day, is the “reputation” difference really worth it? Need guidance.

I agree with your W&C observations for the most part, but idk in my experience I would not call Quinn people "comfortable and refreshed" and/or "friendly and warm."

Poster here. I just had great interviews with all 6-8 Quinn people. They joked. Laughed. Smiled. Etc. Had the same amount of interviews with W&C and could barely get a smile. Then they beamed about the 1 to 1 staffing (1 partner to 1 associate) on some matters. You can’t tell me 1-1 does not equal long hours… for below market? Really trying to figure out what that “thing” is I’m missing in this equation. What is this intangible and is it worth it?

Just go to Quinn. Everyone knows what that "thing" is here. It's a combination of prestige and the probability of more substantive experience early in your career. I frankly only think W&C is worth it for people who want to work in government in DC or who plan to make a serious run for Partner there.

[Anonymous User]

Poster here. I just had great interviews with all 6-8 Quinn people. They joked. Laughed. Smiled. Etc. Had the same amount of interviews with W&C and could barely get a smile. Then they beamed about the 1 to 1 staffing (1 partner to 1 associate) on some matters. You can’t tell me 1-1 does not equal long hours… for below market? Really trying to figure out what that “thing” is I’m missing in this equation. What is this intangible and is it worth it?

the intangible is a stronger white collar practice, more substantive experience earlier, higher odds of partnership, better exits, better connections

also, no way WC has higher hours than Quinn. At Quinn, a lot of partners hold 2400 as the goal

QE associate here. Your hours at Quinn are what you want them to be. It's a 100% free market system, and nobody is telling you what to do when. If you bill less than 2100, you won't get a year-end bonus. If you consistently bill like 1800 a year you might get a talking to (which I think is fair). If you crush yourself and bill 2400+ maybe you'll get more experience faster and become a stronger partnership candidate. Those are the factors to consider - otherwise, choose your own adventure.

[Anonymous User]

Poster here. I just had great interviews with all 6-8 Quinn people. They joked. Laughed. Smiled. Etc. Had the same amount of interviews with W&C and could barely get a smile. Then they beamed about the 1 to 1 staffing (1 partner to 1 associate) on some matters. You can’t tell me 1-1 does not equal long hours… for below market? Really trying to figure out what that “thing” is I’m missing in this equation. What is this intangible and is it worth it?

the intangible is a stronger white collar practice, more substantive experience earlier, higher odds of partnership, better exits, better connections

also, no way WC has higher hours than Quinn. At Quinn, a lot of partners hold 2400 as the goal

QE associate here. Your hours at Quinn are what you want them to be. It's a 100% free market system, and nobody is telling you what to do when. If you bill less than 2100, you won't get a year-end bonus. If you consistently bill like 1800 a year you might get a talking to (which I think is fair). If you crush yourself and bill 2400+ maybe you'll get more experience faster and become a stronger partnership candidate. Those are the factors to consider - otherwise, choose your own adventure.

No OP but someone considering a Quinn offer. Would you say it is do-able to bill right around 2100 for a junior? Does that require turning down work, and is there tons of pushback for that even if you're on track?

Second question. Do most people you work with take advantage of the 100% WFH? Lots of people on here shit on the culture at Quinn and I believe that its intense, but I feel like being fully remote has to take the edge off a bit. Even if you get stuck on a matter with a terrible partner, you don't ever have to interact with them in person. And from what I understand, you have a good amount of control over what matters you work on as long as you are staying busy, so it doesn't seem that hard to avoid specific folks if need be.