2L biglaw SAs remote/in person Forum

[Anonymous User]

Well, it now seems apparent that ‘remote’ is the dominant position for SA programs.

The Reddit SA tracker thread shows that firms are exclusively ‘remote’ or ‘format TBD.’ And here on TLS, full-time associates are talking about returning Labor Day (at the earliest) or 2022 (more realistic).

For those firms that are still TBD on SA format, I wonder if the Biden administration’s recently-announced commitment to open vaccination by May 1 will move the needle?

[stupididiot]

For those firms that are still TBD on SA format, I wonder if the Biden administration’s recently-announced commitment to open vaccination by May 1 will move the needle?

Hard to see how that would help. It means that May 1 is when most SA and associates will be able to schedule an appointment. Even if you assume everyone can get vaccinated within 3 weeks or so (which is very unlikely), and that everyone gets the one shot vaccine (which is not going to happen), then it takes at least another 2 weeks to build immunity, which puts you in mid-June. If people get the two shot vaccine, then there is no way they are immune even by end June. PLUS you would then have to deal with the headache of someone who got a first shot in, say, California trying to schedule a second shot in NY or something...

If July 4 is "normalcy" date, which is ambitious, then maybe firms have some optional in person last week social or something. But hard to see it doing anything to tip away from primarily virtual

[cavalier1138]

For those firms that are still TBD on SA format, I wonder if the Biden administration’s recently-announced commitment to open vaccination by May 1 will move the needle?

Hard to see how that would help. It means that May 1 is when most SA and associates will be able to schedule an appointment. Even if you assume everyone can get vaccinated within 3 weeks or so (which is very unlikely), and that everyone gets the one shot vaccine (which is not going to happen), then it takes at least another 2 weeks to build immunity, which puts you in mid-June. If people get the two shot vaccine, then there is no way they are immune even by end June. PLUS you would then have to deal with the headache of someone who got a first shot in, say, California trying to schedule a second shot in NY or something...

If July 4 is "normalcy" date, which is ambitious, then maybe firms have some optional in person last week social or something. But hard to see it doing anything to tip away from primarily virtual

Agreed. And even on the most optimistic schedule, I don't think firms would have the resources to pivot back to an in-person summer. Switching from in-person to remote was probably a logistical headache, but the reverse would be much harder to pull off (event reservations, office space arrangements, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

The normalcy previewed last night was small outdoor bbqs with neighbors (which are amazing to be sure). Large scale, in person summer programming is a different category. Maybe some get together(s) in late summer on an optional basis. But unfortunately seems like we are still a summer away from a return to the old school SA programs.

Associates will not be required to come back until Labor Day (at earliest) and now that major firms are saying 2022, likely that becomes the norm. Highly doubtful summers would be required to come in against that back drop...

[Anonymous User]

Ugh. As an incoming 2L SA (whose firm hasn’t announced yet), I hate the idea it will be all remote, but that does seem to be the inescapable conclusion now. The timing just doesn’t add up.

My hot take is that we 2021 SAs actually have it worse than last year’s 2020 SAs did. I’d much rather do a “virtual 6 weeks” (last year’s standard) than a “virtual 10 weeks” (emerging as this year’s standard). I hate Zoom classes, and cannot picture Zoom work, Zoom social events, etc. being any better. Last year’s SAs got off easy with reduced work and full pay.

Maybe...firms will invite local 3Ls (recent SAs) to events next year as a make up for missing offer dinners and SA events? Xmas party, if such a thing ever happens again? Or I guess that would raise the specter of inequity between local 3Ls and distant 3Ls.

[nixy]

You’ll have likely received and accepted or turned down an offer by then, so those events won’t serve the same purpose as they would during the summer, which is to entice you to work for them.

[cavalier1138]

Last year’s SAs got off easy with reduced work and full pay.

SAs already get off easy with reduced work and full pay. Most of the "job" is attending events.

[Anonymous User]

Hot off the presses: "Seeking return to normal, JPMorgan Chase is planning for summer interns to go to the office." (NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/busi ... ffice.html)

JPM is a huge player and the return covers both NYC and London. Do we think any law firms will take notice?

[pumpmeup]

plz lord

[jotarokujo]

Ugh. As an incoming 2L SA (whose firm hasn’t announced yet), I hate the idea it will be all remote, but that does seem to be the inescapable conclusion now. The timing just doesn’t add up.

My hot take is that we 2021 SAs actually have it worse than last year’s 2020 SAs did. I’d much rather do a “virtual 6 weeks” (last year’s standard) than a “virtual 10 weeks” (emerging as this year’s standard). I hate Zoom classes, and cannot picture Zoom work, Zoom social events, etc. being any better. Last year’s SAs got off easy with reduced work and full pay.

Maybe...firms will invite local 3Ls (recent SAs) to events next year as a make up for missing offer dinners and SA events? Xmas party, if such a thing ever happens again? Or I guess that would raise the specter of inequity between local 3Ls and distant 3Ls.

honestly most people in biglaw prefer working remotely. an SA is of course different from being an associate, but all of the benefits of being remote are still there.

[Tx878]

Hot off the presses: "Seeking return to normal, JPMorgan Chase is planning for summer interns to go to the office." (NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/busi ... ffice.html)

JPM is a huge player and the return covers both NYC and London. Do we think any law firms will take notice?

This is interesting but I don't know what it would change anything w/r/t firms that have said associates required to come back until 2022.

[Anonymous User]

Hot off the presses: "Seeking return to normal, JPMorgan Chase is planning for summer interns to go to the office." (NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/busi ... ffice.html)

JPM is a huge player and the return covers both NYC and London. Do we think any law firms will take notice?

This is interesting but I don't know what it would change anything w/r/t firms that have said associates required to come back until 2022.

True.

Still, it’s mystifying that finance is so out of sync on return-to-office versus biglaw, its white collar peer. Is it something specific about certain finance roles (e.g. trading requires access to bloomberg terminal), or is it about finance being culturally less “conservative” / less risk adverse than biglaw?

Your typical biglaw partner is equitized in a way that your typical finance MD is not, so you might naively expect to see the reverse - biglaw partners cracking the whip and finance mgmt. letting WFH drag on forever...

[Anonymous User]

Hot off the presses: "Seeking return to normal, JPMorgan Chase is planning for summer interns to go to the office." (NYT - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/16/busi ... ffice.html)

JPM is a huge player and the return covers both NYC and London. Do we think any law firms will take notice?

This is interesting but I don't know what it would change anything w/r/t firms that have said associates required to come back until 2022.

True.

Still, it’s mystifying that finance is so out of sync on return-to-office versus biglaw, its white collar peer. Is it something specific about certain finance roles (e.g. trading requires access to bloomberg terminal), or is it about finance being culturally less “conservative” / less risk adverse than biglaw?

Your typical biglaw partner is equitized in a way that your typical finance MD is not, so you might naively expect to see the reverse - biglaw partners cracking the whip and finance mgmt. letting WFH drag on forever...

Yeah, I would maybe expect the reverse too.You're right—It is mystifying. All I know (I'm a first year) is that I wanna WFH as long as humanely possible.

accidental anon it is tx878

[Anonymous User]

What will be the likely attitude of firms this summer towards informal SA gatherings IRL, assuming they catch wind? (Gatherings meaning casual meet-ups outside, grabbing drinks, etc. Not ragers or house parties.) Given the fully-remote summer, the only official firm events will be on Zoom; and from a liability (?) standpoint, I cannot see the firm giving us the all-clear to meet IRL, even unofficially.

Are firms going to be laissez faire "do what you want on your own time, use good judgment" or more like zero-tolerance "this is supposed to be a REMOTE summer program"?

I ask because I am vaccinated and assume many of the other SAs will be as well, and can see this coming up as an issue. Don't want some covid-safe fun to rub a random partner the wrong way, and get no-offered as a result. NYC, if it makes any difference.

(sorry to necro)

[jotarokujo]

Ugh. As an incoming 2L SA (whose firm hasn’t announced yet), I hate the idea it will be all remote, but that does seem to be the inescapable conclusion now. The timing just doesn’t add up.

My hot take is that we 2021 SAs actually have it worse than last year’s 2020 SAs did. I’d much rather do a “virtual 6 weeks” (last year’s standard) than a “virtual 10 weeks” (emerging as this year’s standard). I hate Zoom classes, and cannot picture Zoom work, Zoom social events, etc. being any better. Last year’s SAs got off easy with reduced work and full pay.

Maybe...firms will invite local 3Ls (recent SAs) to events next year as a make up for missing offer dinners and SA events? Xmas party, if such a thing ever happens again? Or I guess that would raise the specter of inequity between local 3Ls and distant 3Ls.

plenty of folks loving WFH rn though

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know what the dress code is for the traditionally more formal V20 NYC firms when it comes to remote summers? Are business formal offices now business casual?

[jjdude14]

Ugh. As an incoming 2L SA (whose firm hasn’t announced yet), I hate the idea it will be all remote, but that does seem to be the inescapable conclusion now. The timing just doesn’t add up.

My hot take is that we 2021 SAs actually have it worse than last year’s 2020 SAs did. I’d much rather do a “virtual 6 weeks” (last year’s standard) than a “virtual 10 weeks” (emerging as this year’s standard). I hate Zoom classes, and cannot picture Zoom work, Zoom social events, etc. being any better. Last year’s SAs got off easy with reduced work and full pay.

Maybe...firms will invite local 3Ls (recent SAs) to events next year as a make up for missing offer dinners and SA events? Xmas party, if such a thing ever happens again? Or I guess that would raise the specter of inequity between local 3Ls and distant 3Ls.

2020 SAs certainly had it worse.While some got full pay, many (most?) had their pay cut in half completely unexpectedly, and some lost their positions all together. Those who committed to housing in the SA city had to either waste their money or go through the hassle of canceling. They were also the guinea pigs for a remote program which was thrown together in a matter of weeks.

2021 SAs get full pay and benefit from an additional year of living in ~uncertain times.~ Firms will presumably have better infrastructure to administer remote programs and SAs will have 4 additional weeks to meet people and explore practice areas. Depending on the firm, remote work is leaps and bounds better than Zoom Law.

Tangentially related but 2021 SAs will also have a relatively normal 3L year. After being remote for the funnest year of law school, us 2020 SAs get to graduate on zoom.

[Anonymous User]

NYC just announced it will fully reopen by July 1 today, do we think that will have any effect on firms giving the option to be in-person for summers?

[Anonymous User]

NYC just announced it will fully reopen by July 1 today, do we think that will have any effect on firms giving the option to be in-person?

I feel like maybe not because if firms were planning on being fully remote, it seems like it would be a logistical nightmare to change that now from both the firm’s perspective and the fact that summers were not planning to relocate (and even if it was optional, people would definitely feel pressured to, even if it was difficult for some people to make that happen). It seems like it could be a scramble for everyone even if firms didn’t start the in-person option until later in the summer. The vast majority of people in my office still aren’t going in even if fully vaccinated and the vaccine rollout going seemingly relatively well hasn’t seemed to change our return timeline. Maybe more potential for optional in person events? I just don’t see a huge sea change of a bunch of in-person components happening, at least not widely across firms. But I may also be biased because I love work from home (understanding that an in-person summer is different than being in in-person associate).

[jotarokujo]

Last year’s SAs got off easy with reduced work and full pay.

SAs already get off easy with reduced work and full pay. Most of the "job" is attending events.

sure but remote is even more relaxed/you have to do even less

[Anonymous User]

Even though my program is remote, a couple of people from the firm (NYC office) have asked if I would be relocating. Seems like they were definitely pushing for it... Wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

[Anonymous User]

Even though my program is remote, a couple of people from the firm (NYC office) have asked if I would be relocating. Seems like they were definitely pushing for it... Wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

Unless there’s some additional context here, I wouldn’t read too much into the question. Probably just a polite way of making conversation. And not completely out of the blue since I know a handful of people moving to get a taste of NYC for the summer, even though their programs are also fully remote.

[Anonymous User]

Even though my program is remote, a couple of people from the firm (NYC office) have asked if I would be relocating. Seems like they were definitely pushing for it... Wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

Unless there’s some additional context here, I wouldn’t read too much into the question. Probably just a polite way of making conversation. And not completely out of the blue since I know a handful of people moving to get a taste of NYC for the summer, even though their programs are also fully remote.

Yea that might be the case. To add more context, one of the attorneys explicitly said it would probably be better for me to relocate (but no pressure). Not sure what to make of it.

[Anonymous User]

Even though my program is remote, a couple of people from the firm (NYC office) have asked if I would be relocating. Seems like they were definitely pushing for it... Wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

Unless there’s some additional context here, I wouldn’t read too much into the question. Probably just a polite way of making conversation. And not completely out of the blue since I know a handful of people moving to get a taste of NYC for the summer, even though their programs are also fully remote.

Yea that might be the case. To add more context, one of the attorneys explicitly said it would probably be better for me to relocate (but no pressure). Not sure what to make of it.

Just curious, is this S&C? I thought most offices aren’t even open yet

[Anonymous User]

Even though my program is remote, a couple of people from the firm (NYC office) have asked if I would be relocating. Seems like they were definitely pushing for it... Wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

Unless there’s some additional context here, I wouldn’t read too much into the question. Probably just a polite way of making conversation. And not completely out of the blue since I know a handful of people moving to get a taste of NYC for the summer, even though their programs are also fully remote.

Yea that might be the case. To add more context, one of the attorneys explicitly said it would probably be better for me to relocate (but no pressure). Not sure what to make of it.

Just curious, is this S&C? I thought most offices aren’t even open yet

Nope