Secretary Christmas Gift Forum

[QContinuum]

This is lawyering the shit out of the issue to the point of absurdity. Yes, if you have $30k disposable income you can afford to pay your secretary $100 at the holidays. You just don’t want to. That’s fine, it’s your choice, but you can afford it.

That's moving the goalposts. We weren't talking about $100 tips, but about multi-hundred dollar tips. When have I ever said a $100 holiday tip was unreasonable? I gave more than that my first holiday, when I'd been on the job only a few months. You'll see above that I even said a $300 holiday tip was reasonable for a third-year. My only objection has been to the alleged expectation/obligation of a $500+ tip for a midlevel. I think that's ridiculous as a general rule, though I recognize exceptions exist. I've been attacked nine ways to Sunday for allegedly being "cheap," even though the main poster attacking me themselves tipped only $100 as a first-year, $200 as a second-year, and $300 ever since.

[JohnnieSockran]

I think a lot of people are responding to the original asshole that started all of this, not Q's points, at least not all of them.

My opinion is if you can't "afford" $100 to your secretary, you're a cheap asshole if that's the office norm. I agree, going up to $500+ seems absurd. FWIW, I think pretty much all associates in my office do $100, no matter what class year.

No idea what the partners do, but some are cheap as shit and it wouldn't shock me if a few of the more socially awkward ones weren't giving any gift at all, but I suspect certain rainmakers do an expensive lunch with their secretary (this I can confirm), plus a substantial cash gift.

[nixy]

This is lawyering the shit out of the issue to the point of absurdity. Yes, if you have $30k disposable income you can afford to pay your secretary $100 at the holidays. You just don’t want to. That’s fine, it’s your choice, but you can afford it.

That's moving the goalposts. We weren't talking about $100 tips, but about multi-hundred dollar tips. When have I ever said a $100 holiday tip was unreasonable? I gave more than that my first holiday, when I'd been on the job only a few months. You'll see above that I even said a $300 holiday tip was reasonable for a third-year. My only objection has been to the alleged expectation/obligation of a $500+ tip for a midlevel. I think that's ridiculous as a general rule, though I recognize exceptions exist. I've been attacked nine ways to Sunday for allegedly being "cheap," even though the main poster attacking me themselves tipped only $100 as a first-year, $200 as a second-year, and $300 ever since.

There are definitely posters in this thread (Wild Card) who were complaining about paying $100, and I think your comments got linked in with theirs in a way that looked like you were defending them, regardless of what you personally pay.

[BasilHallward]

The fact that people are responding so negatively to me calling them cheap smacks of me hitting a truth.

I’m sorry, if spending 0.0526315789474% of a first year’s gross income (not including bonus!) is “overspending”

You

Are

Cheap

Accept it. Embrace it. Don’t deny it, don’t fight it. It’s okay, I wouldn’t care so much if you would just admit it! Being “responsible” and “saving yourself from “the dole” lmao.


As I said above, in just *two years* of biglaw I paid off $125k of my own student loans, $10k of my wife’s, maxed out my 401k, live in an expensive part of town in high COL city, eat at fantastic restaurants, and go on dope vacations. And I pay for most things - my wife isn’t a lawyer or six figure professional.

My life is fuckin’ fantastic. We make A LOT of money. The $100-500 to your secretary will not move the needle...because it’s literally one half of one percent of your income.

I really question the bolded. Were you starting at 250k?? I'm assuming you started at 180k or even 160k, depending on start year. This amount of living high on the hog just does not seem feasible, unless your high COL city is Dallas or the like.

tbf, even if his wife does not make six figures, a combined income could make it feasible.

I highly doubt it. Big law take home is like 120ish, less if OP started at 160k. When somebody says "expensive part of town in high COL city, rent and living expenses for two can easily climb to 6-7k a month (72k-85k a year). Then, you have the ridiculous amount of $$ going towards loan repayment (67.5k each year!) and 18k to 401k max. Fine, maybe it's doable on ramen and packing a lunch. This gets laughable quickly because high rolling OP is routinely going to "fantastic restaurants" in a high COL city and on dope vacations (plural). And all of this in the first two years of BigLaw. Again, if this is Dallas, Atlanta, or Houston, yes entirely possible, but I'm still skeptical. But these are not high COL cities, so I'm thinking SF, NY, DC, Boston, San Jose, in which case, I wanna see how the math checks out, even with SO pulling in another 60k after taxes, assuming SO makes just a skosh under 100k a year.

The thing is incidentals add up so fast and frequently. Not to mention, I guess no emergency fund is being accumulated, which would be crazy in the first few years of BigLaw, but to each his/her own.

Tl;dr: Mainly ranting b/c I can't pull this off in a hip, but not expensive part, mid-high COL city (think Denver, Austin, Boulder).

[Wild Card]

If you people like to swing your dicks around by throwing benjamins at people who do jack shit for you, then be my guest.

However, why is $500 or even $800 or even $1,000 too much money for you, all of a sudden?

What is reasonable and what is absurd?

[Anonymous User]

Folks, I completely didn't realize this week was Administrative Professionals Day and I forgot to get my Secretary something. She also had a loss recently in her extended family.

Is it too much to get her a $100+ gift card to a restaurant? Seems like others did the traditional gift of flowers and wasn't sure what was typical in this situation....

[papermateflair]

My assistant doesn't like flowers, and our firm had contracted with a flower company so that we could order flowers directly from the company and skip paying for shipping, so I just gave the assistant what I would have spent on flowers in the form of a gift card. $100 to restaurant sounds fine - I think anywhere from $50 to $100 is about right for administrative professionals day, unless you know your assistant well enough to be able to give a thoughtful gift, or your firm has set other expectations.

[albanach]

Folks, I completely didn't realize this week was Administrative Professionals Day and I forgot to get my Secretary something. She also had a loss recently in her extended family.

Is it too much to get her a $100+ gift card to a restaurant? Seems like others did the traditional gift of flowers and wasn't sure what was typical in this situation....

Will that card buy a meal for two at the restaurant? If so, probably. if not, just give cash or a prepaid Visa card.

I think it was a cunning approach taken by administrative professionals to pick a calendar rule for their special day which cannot be easily coded into Outlook. My suggestion - add a rule that gives you a reminder on the first Monday in April to check the date of Administrative Professionals Day for the current year so you can add a specific reminder for later in the month.

[icansortofmath]

Firm expectations and common sense apply here I think.

Sorry but $100/yr that caps out at $300 or something like that (I'd actually keep raising that but maybe make it +100 every 2 years instead) is pretty reasonable unless your secretary is working with like 20 lawyers and/or you literally never had her do anything for you.

This isn't unique to Biglaw by the way. Consultants and Investment Bankers have similar expectations. Those secretaries/assistants do a lot of the admin to make sure you get paid and shit gets done even if you haven't even actually met them.

PS: I've been told by an assistant at an ibank that they fucking HATE gift cards. A nice bottle of wine plus cash seems to be the consensus preferred gift.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping for the holidays. My secretary does next to nothing for me. Can I give her just a bottle of wine and a card? I don't even want to give her that to be honest. Mid-level

[TigerIsBack]

Third, there's really no justification for a blanket "must tip secretaries" rule other than noblesse oblige, which is decidedly outdated and frankly demeaning to apply to support staff.

This argument constantly baffles me. Any secretary that I've given a Christmas bonus/gift to has been greatly appreciative because I'm just trying to show my appreciation for the help they provided all year long. Law firms give holiday bonuses to associates too, so not sure the difference here. Sure these secretaries could be faking it, but it appears genuine and none of them have ever given the money back to me.

But do you really think someone making $60k (some maybe significantly more, some maybe less), is really going to turn away a few hundred bucks (or more if they support a few associates and partners) to stand on principle? Should we all start turning away our annual bonuses and standing on that same principle?

This is not about principle, it's just about being cheap. Share the wealth with your secretaries at the holidays. Give a bit more if you use them a lot and they go the extra mile. If they don't, give the minimum that's normal in your office.

I'm not saying you have to go past $300-400 or so, that seems like a reasonable cap. Even with sticker price loans and NYC rent, every associate at a *Milbank* scale firm makes plenty of money to share $100-300, so just do it even if they don't help you much.

[TigerIsBack]

Bumping for the holidays. My secretary does next to nothing for me. Can I give her just a bottle of wine and a card? I don't even want to give her that to be honest. Mid-level

Milbank scale firm? As a midlevel, if you gave $100 you probably at least wouldn't ruffle any feathers, but maybe you could get away with just wine and a card, I just think you're probably running the risk that you get labeled as the cheap guy/gal (though obviously that may never affect you professionally if you continue to not need help from secretary's, so it's your call to gauge that risk).

[Anonymous User]

The standard at my firm is $100/class year with no limit, but we're an above market boutique and frankly our secretaries both work hard and are understaffed.

On the one hand, my assigned secretary regularly works >40 hr weeks, esp when the trial team she's assigned to has, well, a trial. On the other hand, come Christmas time, she has like 12-ish associates each giving $100/class year (some more or less, but I'd assume that's the average).

[Anonymous User]

Bumping for the holidays. My secretary does next to nothing for me. Can I give her just a bottle of wine and a card? I don't even want to give her that to be honest. Mid-level

Milbank scale firm? As a midlevel, if you gave $100 you probably at least wouldn't ruffle any feathers, but maybe you could get away with just wine and a card, I just think you're probably running the risk that you get labeled as the cheap guy/gal (though obviously that may never affect you professionally if you continue to not need help from secretary's, so it's your call to gauge that risk).

Thanks. If social pressure is the only reason why I should give $100, then I'm going to pass.

For the benefit of the rest of the thread, I think the answer to this question is firm dependent. At my v30 firm, most of the secretaries are sitting around doing nothing all day. More and more are being laid off and the firm is looking for ways to phase them out. The old tipping custom is antiquated and left over from the days when secretaries were truly an invaluable part of the firm. This is no longer the case at my firm and I suspect many others. IMO unless you have an extremely helpful and diligent secretary, the old custom should not apply, and you should feel free to give (or not give) as you see fit.

[nixy]

I mean, I think really the answer to all these questions is “do what’s expected in your office.” Even if that involves cash to people you don’t see doing much.

[papermateflair]

I mean, I think really the answer to all these questions is “do what’s expected in your office.” Even if that involves cash to people you don’t see doing much.

^^^^ this! I wasn't sure what was appropriate in my office, so I asked a couple of partners what they normally did, and asked a few other associates, and arrived at a number from there. I may have given my assistant more than what other associates (and apparently some partners) traditionally give, but it wasn't inappropriately more. Just ask. And it doesn't matter how much or how little your assistant does for you - your assistant deserves basic courteousey and respect, and that includes a nice holiday gift.

[QContinuum]

Third, there's really no justification for a blanket "must tip secretaries" rule other than noblesse oblige, which is decidedly outdated and frankly demeaning to apply to support staff.

This argument constantly baffles me. Any secretary that I've given a Christmas bonus/gift to has been greatly appreciative because I'm just trying to show my appreciation for the help they provided all year long. Law firms give holiday bonuses to associates too, so not sure the difference here. Sure these secretaries could be faking it, but it appears genuine and none of them have ever given the money back to me.

But do you really think someone making $60k (some maybe significantly more, some maybe less), is really going to turn away a few hundred bucks (or more if they support a few associates and partners) to stand on principle? Should we all start turning away our annual bonuses and standing on that same principle?

This is not about principle, it's just about being cheap. Share the wealth with your secretaries at the holidays. Give a bit more if you use them a lot and they go the extra mile. If they don't, give the minimum that's normal in your office.

I'm not saying you have to go past $300-400 or so, that seems like a reasonable cap. Even with sticker price loans and NYC rent, every associate at a *Milbank* scale firm makes plenty of money to share $100-300, so just do it even if they don't help you much.

Thanks for taking a single, year-old, out-of-context quote to attack me. If you scroll up in this thread you will see I expressly endorsed giving $300. The quote you extracted above was in response to some weird wealth redistribution ideas that were floated by other posters which sounded like a twist on noblesse oblige.

[Anonymous User]

I mean, I think really the answer to all these questions is “do what’s expected in your office.” Even if that involves cash to people you don’t see doing much.

^^^^ this! I wasn't sure what was appropriate in my office, so I asked a couple of partners what they normally did, and asked a few other associates, and arrived at a number from there. I may have given my assistant more than what other associates (and apparently some partners) traditionally give, but it wasn't inappropriately more. Just ask. And it doesn't matter how much or how little your assistant does for you - your assistant deserves basic courteousey and respect, and that includes a nice holiday gift.

Agreed. A nice holiday gift for a coworker you don’t know well should be a card, some chocolates or wine. Not a wad of cash

[nixy]

I mean, I think really the answer to all these questions is “do what’s expected in your office.” Even if that involves cash to people you don’t see doing much.

^^^^ this! I wasn't sure what was appropriate in my office, so I asked a couple of partners what they normally did, and asked a few other associates, and arrived at a number from there. I may have given my assistant more than what other associates (and apparently some partners) traditionally give, but it wasn't inappropriately more. Just ask. And it doesn't matter how much or how little your assistant does for you - your assistant deserves basic courteousey and respect, and that includes a nice holiday gift.

Agreed. A nice holiday gift for a coworker you don’t know well should be a card, some chocolates or wine. Not a wad of cash

There are a lot of ways that a lot of work places "should" work, but don't. "Should" doesn't get anyone anywhere.

[sparty99]

I barely use mine but got her a $50.00 gift certificate to a department store. I will expense the gift from my 2020 marketing budget.

[nixy]

I really hope you’re joking.

[TUwave]

I barely use mine but got her a $50.00 gift certificate to a department store. I will expense the gift from my 2020 marketing budget.

Lol gotta pay off those loans bruh

[JusticeSquee]

I barely use mine but got her a $50.00 gift certificate to a department store. I will expense the gift from my 2020 marketing budget.

Why not just cash?

[nixy]

Because he can't expense a cash gift to his secretary.

[sparty99]

I really hope you’re joking.

Why would I be joking? I don't even celebrate the holidays. Not trying to pay money out of my personal funds for someone I hardly even use.