... Forum

[Pokemon]

Do not want to pile on op, but I am starting to think this is trolling, and if not, op you should no matter what do 3l lolci since a) you are probably on very thin ice if you have shown the same type of clueslessness that u are showing with us and b) sounds like your firm really sucks.

[BlendedUnicorn]

For future reference, please refer to this handy flow chart:

should I be honest about my feelings with my superiors at work------> NO.

Which isn't necessarily to say that you should always lie or that you shouldn't show some backbone, but that's 400 level stuff. Until you get a better feel for things, just stick with that.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Since I didn't go this route, a question: who is getting reviewed at the end-of-summer review? The SA, right?

[Anonymous User]

Do not want to pile on op, but I am starting to think this is trolling, and if not, op you should no matter what do 3l lolci since a) you are probably on very thin ice if you have shown the same type of clueslessness that u are showing with us and b) sounds like your firm really sucks.

That's judgmental. I literally asked "What should I do?" Everyone seemed to assume I'd do the worst possible thing (which I never said I would do) and based on those assumptions are calling me all kinds of names.

Where did I ever say I would "berate the partner and senior associate" or that I'd say "the partner doesn't know how to run the practice" or anything like that? Please quote me saying those things.

I confess that I thought that firms cared about their summer yield. What a terrible factual mistake. That level of ignorance clearly disqualifies me from working in a law firm, or in any professional setting.

Thank you to those who offered helpful suggestions.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Since I didn't go this route, a question: who is getting reviewed at the end-of-summer review? The SA, right?

Yes, it's where a couple of attorneys sit down with the SA and go through the feedback that has been submitted about them. At a lot of firms they give you the offer to return at your review.

They'll probably also ask whether the SA has any feedback about the summer, but 99 percent of the time the right answer is "I had a great experience and thank you for the opportunity," basically. Maybe offer a suggestion about the social events or something like that. And if done VERY tactfully, it MIGHT be appropriate to express mild disappointment about your assignments, probably in the context of a preference about what you want to do when you come back (i.e., "I really enjoyed working with partner x and would have liked the opportunity to do a bit more of their work, I hope to work with them when I return," not, "I was told I could do appellate work and you never gave me any").

[crumb cake]

You could still get an offer to join your desired group.

I didn't do any assignments in my desired group as an SA but in the end I got an offer with them. Best not to potentially burn a bridge here.

[BlueParrot]

I can't tell if this is trolling. Complaining isn't going to get you the work you want when you start a year from now. They might remember that you whined about something and are really annoying, but no one is going to think "OMG we have to get this first year the work they want because they said something about it a year ago".

[elendinel]

That's judgmental. I literally asked "What should I do?" Everyone seemed to assume I'd do the worst possible thing (which I never said I would do) and based on those assumptions are calling me all kinds of names.

Where did I ever say I would "berate the partner and senior associate" or that I'd say "the partner doesn't know how to run the practice" or anything like that? Please quote me saying those things.

One of the things you want to bring up in your summer-end review is the fact that you felt you weren't put on a meaningful task (and in fact you felt the task should never have been assigned to begin with). Which insinuates that you think you have a better idea of what tasks should be completed internally/what tasks should be given to an SA/etc. than the partner does. You may not be outright saying "I think I have a better sense of what I should have been working on than the partner had," but you're effectively saying such when you claim a task that was given to you "had no utility" and that you have concerns about the fact that you were not given more meaningful work. HR can still get at the core of what you're saying, even if you don't precisely articulate your point.

[PeanutsNJam]

Also the "this practice area is in shambles" assertion lol.

[run26.2]

BTW - Doing projects that appear to you to have little utility is fairly common in biglaw. It is also common to do work which has utility but for which you will get very little credit. "Ours is not to question why..."

[Anonymous User]

I can't tell if this is trolling. Complaining isn't going to get you the work you want when you start a year from now. They might remember that you whined about something and are really annoying, but no one is going to think "OMG we have to get this first year the work they want because they said something about it a year ago".

People really like to use loaded words on TLS, often to tear down a straw man.

What is your definition of "complaining"? Saying, "I enjoyed the work I did in practice area A. I feel like my background at [x] government agency would also allow me to contribute to practice area B, and I would be very grateful for the opportunity to work in that area also" is "complaining" or "whining" to you?

If saying anything other than "It is my dream to work for this firm" constitutes "complaining," then, sure, I'm a complainer.

[Nebby]

OP, you should be honest in your review and report back to us

[drive4showLSAT4dough]

If saying anything other than "it is my dream to work at this firm" constitutes not being honest in your end-of-summer review, then you should not be honest in your end-of-summer review

[Anonymous User]

Is there any unique challenge in saying something like the following: I desire strongly to keep growing with the firm; I learned a lot from and enjoyed the work I did here. I do realize, however, that I'm still very interested in learning more about practice area B. While I didn't get assigned work in this area during the summer, It would be great to continue nurturing my interest here while working with the firm.

They should notice the thread and continuous interest and if they care about you at all, then they'll try to place you on work related to practice area B. But if their response indicates they don't or can't guarantee opportunities with practice area B (and honestly, either way), then you remain a free agent and attend OCI.

You would not be "complaining", you'd be tactfully highlighting a way they could improve your experience if they're able to and they'd like you to come back. If you don't come back, they will know why. If you do return, they might actually try more to staff you where you want. And if they don't try more, you have the option of lateraling.

[BlendedUnicorn]

^^^ I think the above is probably a pretty good approach with the possible caveat that if the practice group is something like appellate or international arbitration maybe make sure you're not asking for something they're not going to give you without a clerkship.

[PeanutsNJam]

People really like to use loaded words on TLS, often to tear down a straw man.

What is your definition of "complaining"? Saying, "I enjoyed the work I did in practice area A. I feel like my background at [x] government agency would also allow me to contribute to practice area B, and I would be very grateful for the opportunity to work in that area also" is "complaining" or "whining" to you?

If saying anything other than "It is my dream to work for this firm" constitutes "complaining," then, sure, I'm a complainer.

And I said this at the beginning of the summer, when we filled out a form stating our desired practice areas, and have said it throughout the summer. Yet, I have not gotten any work in this practice area.

Second, the practice area I have gotten work in is kind of in shambles. I spent the bulk of my time doing work that neither I--nor the senior associate in the group--find utility in.

And to top it off, the junior associate in this practice area is overworked and has taken out her frustrations onto me.

[stego]

People really like to use loaded words on TLS, often to tear down a straw man.

What is your definition of "complaining"? Saying, "I enjoyed the work I did in practice area A. I feel like my background at [x] government agency would also allow me to contribute to practice area B, and I would be very grateful for the opportunity to work in that area also" is "complaining" or "whining" to you?

If saying anything other than "It is my dream to work for this firm" constitutes "complaining," then, sure, I'm a complainer.

And I said this at the beginning of the summer, when we filled out a form stating our desired practice areas, and have said it throughout the summer. Yet, I have not gotten any work in this practice area.

Second, the practice area I have gotten work in is kind of in shambles. I spent the bulk of my time doing work that neither I--nor the senior associate in the group--find utility in.

And to top it off, the junior associate in this practice area is overworked and has taken out her frustrations onto me.

Tbf OP didn't claim they were going to say all this stuff at their review.

[Anonymous User]

People really like to use loaded words on TLS, often to tear down a straw man.

What is your definition of "complaining"? Saying, "I enjoyed the work I did in practice area A. I feel like my background at [x] government agency would also allow me to contribute to practice area B, and I would be very grateful for the opportunity to work in that area also" is "complaining" or "whining" to you?

If saying anything other than "It is my dream to work for this firm" constitutes "complaining," then, sure, I'm a complainer.

And I said this at the beginning of the summer, when we filled out a form stating our desired practice areas, and have said it throughout the summer. Yet, I have not gotten any work in this practice area.

Second, the practice area I have gotten work in is kind of in shambles. I spent the bulk of my time doing work that neither I--nor the senior associate in the group--find utility in.

And to top it off, the junior associate in this practice area is overworked and has taken out her frustrations onto me.

True... OP, Even if they express they will staff you where you want, there seem to be obvious signs going back is not in your best interest. Perhaps you can find another firm that'll be better for you in terms of culture and interests through OCI. Or at worst, you' might end up with another firm that's equally terrible.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Tbf OP didn't claim they were going to say all this stuff at their review.

Hallelujah. Thank you. (This is the OP.)

Next time Peanut person posts something, I will make all sorts of inferences from what he posts, and attack him based on my inferences, rather than on what he actually wrote.

[ghostoftraynor]

OP, you asked a question, and got a nearly universal response. I highly advise listening rather than trying to fight these people. In no scenario should you complain about anything at your review.

[2014]

I think the right chain of events here is, 1. get offer, 2. shop for other jobs, 3. get offer for another job, 4. raise your concerns and figure out if this was a fluke and you can do what you want when you return or if there is some risk that your summer is indicative. There's no reason the people delivering your review/offer need to find out your concerns live, you can raise them once various factors have shifted the power dynamic more in your favor.

[cron1834]

Dude, what you don't get is that the people who are posting in this thread have gone through this. They're from the same demographic buckets as the people that are going to be performing your review. If literally everybody who posts in this thread finds that you rubbed them the wrong way and come across badly, what does that tell you about how you're likely to be perceived? A partner who's used to young attorneys kissing their ass is probably MORE apt to take offense to something like this than the average TLSer, not less.

Nobody here has any incentive to give you something other than their honest/actually-held opinion. Why do you think you're right and everyone else is wrong? There's literally zero basis for your perspective, and everybody who has gone through this tells you this is a bad idea. Think about that for a minute.

Once again - just smile and nod and apply for other jobs if you don't like the group they're sticking you in. It's not that hard.

[elendinel]

I can't tell if this is trolling. Complaining isn't going to get you the work you want when you start a year from now. They might remember that you whined about something and are really annoying, but no one is going to think "OMG we have to get this first year the work they want because they said something about it a year ago".

People really like to use loaded words on TLS, often to tear down a straw man.

What is your definition of "complaining"? Saying, "I enjoyed the work I did in practice area A. I feel like my background at [x] government agency would also allow me to contribute to practice area B, and I would be very grateful for the opportunity to work in that area also" is "complaining" or "whining" to you?

If saying anything other than "It is my dream to work for this firm" constitutes "complaining," then, sure, I'm a complainer.

Talk about a strawman argument...

[BlueParrot]

I can't tell if this is trolling. Complaining isn't going to get you the work you want when you start a year from now. They might remember that you whined about something and are really annoying, but no one is going to think "OMG we have to get this first year the work they want because they said something about it a year ago".

People really like to use loaded words on TLS, often to tear down a straw man.

What is your definition of "complaining"? Saying, "I enjoyed the work I did in practice area A. I feel like my background at [x] government agency would also allow me to contribute to practice area B, and I would be very grateful for the opportunity to work in that area also" is "complaining" or "whining" to you?

If saying anything other than "It is my dream to work for this firm" constitutes "complaining," then, sure, I'm a complainer.

Complaining: to express dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or an event.

Saying "I'd like a chance to do X in the future" isn't complaining. Saying "I'm unhappy I didn't have a chance to do X" is complaining. I think it's a straightforward idea. The op talked about wanting to express concerns (complaining). The OP did not ask how to advocate for a chance to do the work they want (not complaining if done properly).