Consultant taking questions Forum

[Voyager]

Yea, you gave me your take already, thanks. I was hoping to get OP's view/experience on this.

Ah. Sorry. Hard to differentiate all of you fine "Anonymous Users"

[Anonymous User]

Again, I know very little about the acquisitions side aside from the obvious stuff: lots of due diligence, lots of site visits to make sure the acquisition target's problems are known, lots of market research, lots of learning how to structure deals... this side is also where the biggest money is.

Sorry for the jumbled response. Helpful?

Yes, helpful! I would be going into acquisition side if I am to join. What are consultants' role in such acquisition financing transactions?

[Anonymous User]

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

How'd you get the PE offer?!

Additionally, do you have a previous finance background?

I consider myself to be in a unique situation so it's a bit difficult to provide much background without outing myself... I guess what ultimately got me the offer was moderate amount of networking (+luck; luck indeed since I'm an extreme introvert with heavy accent, which actually may have helped actually since people hear this and assume i can do math). No finance background but self-taught for 8 months or so --> CFA1. Wasn't easy while doing biglaw hours but learning finance was much easier than learning law. Also, always being sought after as the documentation monkey motivated me. There are plethora of materials out there that can teach you basic corp finance, spreadsheets & modeling. Once I taught myself, I was able to decipher the financial models that went back and forth between the business folks, and I learned how to talk the talk. No rocket science involved here, just like transactional work. I consider it like driving. So many people do it out there, even I should be able to do it (though I may need the training wheels on for a while). That turned out to be a bit more than I expected to disclose but oh well..

What materials did you use to learn finance? Feel free to PM, thanks

I started with youtube videos to get a basic understanding of basic accounting and finance and then used Wharton's MBA material from my JD/MBA friends. I purchased couple of HBS case studies that touched upon the fields that I was more interested in to spice things up. Also took courses from WSO that taught me excel shortcut keys and modeling in general. A lot of finance on the job seems to be sales -- you are trying to persuade your partner to go with your model. Us corp lawyers are always so self assured and trained to never take answers other than your own -- you'll fit it well once you learn how to replace the words and redlines with numbers and graphs. We have good intuition of when bs is needed and knowing when to craft an "ought to be answer" vs a real answer.

[juzam_djinn]

Project examples:

1. Assist a major retailer fix their supply chain strategy and processes. My work stream? I was entirely responsible for helping the business design a new way to properly exit SKUs to make room for new ones. Initial triage showed that some skus had as much as 50+ weeks of inventory on hand on the day that the next generation of products hit the shelves resulting in absurd markdowns and losses. I fixed it and helped implement the solutions. Very fun. Took me 6 months.

2. Helping a major insurance company to fix their underwriting strategy and processes. This company's Combined Ratio (ratio of claims paid out to premiums paid in) was 1.2. Horrible. They were making horrific insurance bets. My work stream? Worked with them to identify the gaps in their processes that resulted in bad bets and then helped them implement the solutions. Also very satisfying.

3. Hepled a major bank develop a strategy and processes to reduce the number of mortgages at risk of default. This one was fun because the implementation phase involved teaching call centers how to do sales.

All 3 of these projects were great because we not only got to think big picture strategy, but also got to turn the strategy into on the ground changes. I love that shit. Each one was 6 months long or so.

I have loads of other examples from McKinsey and the 2 in house gigs I have done.

if you don't mind me asking, why'd you leave? you are definitely one of the most gung-ho ex-consultants I've ever seen/heard, so the fact you left is surprising

We had our first daughter and I didn't see how I could be a dad with that travel schedule.

I watched other dudes read their kids bedtime stories by Skype. Looked sad as poop, man.

I am on a Strategy team at a large company now. Same sort of work but no travel.

makes sense dude. I'm considering consulting right now and the travel really is the one thing holding me back as I too have a family.

[Anonymous User]

Hey folks,

OP here - sorry, my day got randomly busy as I got pulled in to a bunch of stuff! Here's some answers to the questions asked, and thanks to Voyager for taking some. Overall, glad to see all the interest!

OP -- thanks for your time on this. Could you also entertain the below questions that I posted yesterday?

I'm a junior associate at biglaw doing general corp, and no surprise, I have the common gripe caused by the repetitive nature of the work that can be easily automated with current technology and the only reason that I hold out is because I see senior partners providing (albeit seldomly) impactful advise that implicates business decisions. I talked to a manager at Bain and was told that many associates have the similar complaints, the only difference is that they're dealing with decks. Do you see your work (or task performed by associates at MBB) easily replaceable with technology in the next few years?

Lastly, from a management consultant's perspective, what value other than mere documentation and execution of the deal do transactional attorneys provide?

OP here - sure thing.

On automation - honestly I don't see it being a big concern at MBB, even given any potential bias I may have. That's not of course to say we do brilliant, innovative and groundbreaking work on a day-to-day basis or anything like that, but generally it involves enough thought and substance that I would say it can't be replicated or outsourced easily. This may be more of a concern with the work of Accentures, etc. that are more technology implementation focused.

Voyager is correct that we largely don't deal with transactional attorneys. While we most certainly do a lot of due diligence and merger - evaluation work, the actual nuts and bolts of transactions (valuation, closings, deal documentation, etc.) are the domain of bankers and attorneys. There is a possible exception here for the regulatory risk work we do where there may be some limited interaction with attorneys (and is an area where ex-attorneys sometimes gravitate towards for obvious reasons).

On a fuzzy level however, MBB consultants have respect for attorneys, though the non-JDs may not know the day-to-day routine or work of attorneys.

[Anonymous User]

My perspective: I want to be clear that working at MBB is not all roses and sunshine. First off, the lifestyle is still demanding. I would say it's better than BigLaw overall due to predictability (you are very normally in the clear after 5pm on Fridays through the weekend), but between travel and hours during the week it is still tougher than a 50 yr per week job you can exit to at a client after a year or two. Secondly, there ARE projects that are either not interesting, or the leadership is extremely tough on juniors, or your particular role is not fulfilling. Next, as others mentioned, the exit options are quite interesting after a couple years. Finally, if you want to hunker down and stay, the closer you get to partnership (which, by the way, is hard to get but much more of a realistic option than at law firms), you have to jump through a lot of hoops - proposal work, firm inititatives / recruiting, etc. Not everyone wants to stick around for this. Combine all the factors above and it leads to voluntary attrition.

Traveling. Do all consulting firms equally require this? I'm considering socal market (I could do SF/SV but trying to stay away for now). Is there any way to minimize this? An ex-consultant above mentions that NY banking field wouldn't have much traveling involved. Are there any fields that you would consider the equivalent in socal? How do associates at MBB choose a particular field? organic process?

OP here - I'll be honest, there are steps you can take to minimize travel, but it's really not a great field to go in if you're solving for a job that generally minimizes travel. Yes, in areas like Houston energy, NY finance, West Coast high tech, DC public sector, etc. you can hope to lower the amount of travel if you specialize. But with that being said, at a junior level you likely won't be ultra-focused on one industry, and even so there are ways where travel will still find its way to you (e.g. if you're interested in financial services and based out of new york, you may need to travel to an insurance company in the midwest).

Choosing a field is indeed largely organic. By and large you find a "home" with a combination of 1) industry (e.g. finance) or function (e.g. sales and marketing) that interests you, 2) people you enjoy working with and building a network with them, and 3) the "pull" of your office in that area - see above examples. 1 and 2 are definitely most important, though 3 has some sway - for example, if you're in Houston and want to focus on finance, it's possible, but there are just fewer local partners and individuals focused on that area, so it takes a ton more leg work to gain exposure.

[curepure]

Thanks OP. What is the culture like across MBB? Say to get hired at BCG and Bain, what kind of personality are they looking for in the interviews?

[umichman]

What do you think of the course offered by Breaking into Wall Street to learn the basis?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks OP. What is the culture like across MBB? Say to get hired at BCG and Bain, what kind of personality are they looking for in the interviews?

Not OP. I work for BCG with a JD after summering at a law firm. I'll go by Green so you can tell us apart.

McK is known for being the most prestigious and demanding, BCG for caring (somewhat) about work/life balance, and Bain for being fratty.

Bain is least receptive to JDs. In my year, none of the JDs I knew even bothered with them. I know they're recruiting more intentionally now, but I'm not sure how much that old way of thinking will just go away.

BCG I can speak to more directly. They care about your background (brand names schools like HYS or the Cs) because it's easier to sell your credentials to clients. UVA is a great law school, but if you're not dealing with lawyers no one really cares about the difference between the University of Virginia and the University of West Virginia. You know you've passed that threshold if they recruit at OCI.

After that, the biggest thing is case interviews. They won't really care about your personality as much as whether you can pass a case interview. MBAs who want consulting spend years prepping for these, so JDs are at a pretty significant disadvantage. Find case partners if you want the job.

I think that some people considering between consulting and law don't fully understand how the hours are different. I work a similar number of hours here as I watched associates work at my law firm. However, they are more concentrated to Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday (and sometimes Thursday). Those days we work from wake up until sleep time, sometimes breaking to have a team dinner. Depending on the case, weekends are often protected and totally stress free. It's like going 100mph for a few days and coasting Thursday evening through Sunday instead of going 60mph all week.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks OP. What is the culture like across MBB? Say to get hired at BCG and Bain, what kind of personality are they looking for in the interviews?

Not OP. I work for BCG with a JD after summering at a law firm. I'll go by Green so you can tell us apart.

McK is known for being the most prestigious and demanding, BCG for caring (somewhat) about work/life balance, and Bain for being fratty.

Bain is least receptive to JDs. In my year, none of the JDs I knew even bothered with them. I know they're recruiting more intentionally now, but I'm not sure how much that old way of thinking will just go away.

BCG I can speak to more directly. They care about your background (brand names schools like HYS or the Cs) because it's easier to sell your credentials to clients. UVA is a great law school, but if you're not dealing with lawyers no one really cares about the difference between the University of Virginia and the University of West Virginia. You know you've passed that threshold if they recruit at OCI.

After that, the biggest thing is case interviews. They won't really care about your personality as much as whether you can pass a case interview. MBAs who want consulting spend years prepping for these, so JDs are at a pretty significant disadvantage. Find case partners if you want the job.

I think that some people considering between consulting and law don't fully understand how the hours are different. I work a similar number of hours here as I watched associates work at my law firm. However, they are more concentrated to Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday (and sometimes Thursday). Those days we work from wake up until sleep time, sometimes breaking to have a team dinner. Depending on the case, weekends are often protected and totally stress free. It's like going 100mph for a few days and coasting Thursday evening through Sunday instead of going 60mph all week.

McKinsey interviewed like 30 people from HYS, 15 people from CCN, 5 from northwestern, 5 from Michigan 2 from Georgetown and 1 from Wustl this cycle.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks OP. What is the culture like across MBB? Say to get hired at BCG and Bain, what kind of personality are they looking for in the interviews?

Not OP. I work for BCG with a JD after summering at a law firm. I'll go by Green so you can tell us apart.

McK is known for being the most prestigious and demanding, BCG for caring (somewhat) about work/life balance, and Bain for being fratty.

Bain is least receptive to JDs. In my year, none of the JDs I knew even bothered with them. I know they're recruiting more intentionally now, but I'm not sure how much that old way of thinking will just go away.

BCG I can speak to more directly. They care about your background (brand names schools like HYS or the Cs) because it's easier to sell your credentials to clients. UVA is a great law school, but if you're not dealing with lawyers no one really cares about the difference between the University of Virginia and the University of West Virginia. You know you've passed that threshold if they recruit at OCI.

After that, the biggest thing is case interviews. They won't really care about your personality as much as whether you can pass a case interview. MBAs who want consulting spend years prepping for these, so JDs are at a pretty significant disadvantage. Find case partners if you want the job.

I think that some people considering between consulting and law don't fully understand how the hours are different. I work a similar number of hours here as I watched associates work at my law firm. However, they are more concentrated to Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday (and sometimes Thursday). Those days we work from wake up until sleep time, sometimes breaking to have a team dinner. Depending on the case, weekends are often protected and totally stress free. It's like going 100mph for a few days and coasting Thursday evening through Sunday instead of going 60mph all week.

McKinsey interviewed like 30 people from HYS, 15 people from CCN, 5 from northwestern, 5 from Michigan 2 from Georgetown and 1 from Wustl this cycle.

That's around what I would expect from BCG. At least in our case, you become one of those 30/15/5/5/2 by indirectly convincing the screener at OCI that you know what a case interview is, and that you wouldn't be embarrassing to put in front of a client.

-Green

[curepure]

Thanks OP. What is the culture like across MBB? Say to get hired at BCG and Bain, what kind of personality are they looking for in the interviews?

Not OP. I work for BCG with a JD after summering at a law firm. I'll go by Green so you can tell us apart.

McK is known for being the most prestigious and demanding, BCG for caring (somewhat) about work/life balance, and Bain for being fratty.

Bain is least receptive to JDs. In my year, none of the JDs I knew even bothered with them. I know they're recruiting more intentionally now, but I'm not sure how much that old way of thinking will just go away.

BCG I can speak to more directly. They care about your background (brand names schools like HYS or the Cs) because it's easier to sell your credentials to clients. UVA is a great law school, but if you're not dealing with lawyers no one really cares about the difference between the University of Virginia and the University of West Virginia. You know you've passed that threshold if they recruit at OCI.

After that, the biggest thing is case interviews. They won't really care about your personality as much as whether you can pass a case interview. MBAs who want consulting spend years prepping for these, so JDs are at a pretty significant disadvantage. Find case partners if you want the job.

I think that some people considering between consulting and law don't fully understand how the hours are different. I work a similar number of hours here as I watched associates work at my law firm. However, they are more concentrated to Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday (and sometimes Thursday). Those days we work from wake up until sleep time, sometimes breaking to have a team dinner. Depending on the case, weekends are often protected and totally stress free. It's like going 100mph for a few days and coasting Thursday evening through Sunday instead of going 60mph all week.

McKinsey interviewed like 30 people from HYS, 15 people from CCN, 5 from northwestern, 5 from Michigan 2 from Georgetown and 1 from Wustl this cycle.

That's around what I would expect from BCG. At least in our case, you become one of those 30/15/5/5/2 by indirectly convincing the screener at OCI that you know what a case interview is, and that you wouldn't be embarrassing to put in front of a client.

-Green

Thank you Green. Do you mind if I PM you?

[Anonymous User]

Sure. Happy to PM anyone who replies non-anon. -Green

[YBF-W]

.

[Anonymous User]

A different anon here but why would you go into management consulting if you want to go to law school? You already seem to have a decent job and I doubt a MBB on your resume will help with law school admission. If you are asking if getting a JD will help you move into management consulting, the answer is no. You should be getting a MBA instead. I understand you are feeling bored and unstimulated but you could use that free time to study for the lsat.

[YBF-W]

.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you're interested in business, why do consulting at MBB instead of a top investment bank (e.g., Goldman, PJT, Evercore, JPM)? Wouldn't you get paid more (especially at the elite boutique banks), travel less, and still work on high-level make-or-break business challenges at the banks? Any insight would be helpful.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you're interested in business, why do consulting at MBB instead of a top investment bank (e.g., Goldman, PJT, Evercore, JPM)? Wouldn't you get paid more (especially at the elite boutique banks), travel less, and still work on high-level make-or-break business challenges at the banks? Any insight would be helpful.

As a JD/MBA at a T14/M7 school who is gunning for IB, I agree with where you are leading. Most people buy the "MBB allows for work-life balance" pitch, but I think MBB only buys you more predictability in workflow.

Why work bankers' hours, get paid half as much, and spend M-TH in Topeka?

[RaceJudicata]

.

MBB will not help whatsoever on law school admissions. None. Undergrad gpa and lsat, that is all that matters 99% of the time.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you're interested in business, why do consulting at MBB instead of a top investment bank (e.g., Goldman, PJT, Evercore, JPM)? Wouldn't you get paid more (especially at the elite boutique banks), travel less, and still work on high-level make-or-break business challenges at the banks? Any insight would be helpful.

I think exit ops for consulting is broader? As a consultant you gain general business/management skills as opposed to banking where your skillset is limited to finance.

[Anonymous User]

Green here.

When interviewing with consulting firms, how did you communicate your change in career paths? How did they respond to your rationale?

"I don't want to be a lawyer." At least at BCG, they try to have JDs interview you as much as possible. They'll understand your honest reasoning because they made the same decision.

What skills were most transferrable/attractive to firms?

People skills.

What is the weight given to a JD, versus an MBA? Is pay structure the same for both?

They're identical once you get in. At BCG the big difference is training an apprenticeship. You get 2 extra weeks of business training and 12 weeks of work that are not billed to the client, so you're a case freebee.

I’m actually someone considering going into management consulting before starting law school. I’m currently with a boutique consulting working in a pretty specialized branch of health care consulting. While the hours are good (9-5/no travel), I am terribly bored, unstimulated, and ready to leave. I feel like I am whittling away and becoming very complacent. My main questions is: how feasible do you think it would be to study for the LSAT and work your current hours? If you think it’s possible but some considerations/changes would need to be made, what are those considerations/changes.

If you don't have a social life, you could study for the LSAT on weekends just fine. I'm answering questions on TLS after all.

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you're interested in business, why do consulting at MBB instead of a top investment bank (e.g., Goldman, PJT, Evercore, JPM)? Wouldn't you get paid more (especially at the elite boutique banks), travel less, and still work on high-level make-or-break business challenges at the banks? Any insight would be helpful.

I think exit ops for consulting is broader? As a consultant you gain general business/management skills as opposed to banking where your skillset is limited to finance.

There's a much less active recruiting process for JDs who want to go into i-banking, and the on-boarding process isn't specifically designed for JDs/PhDs like it is at BCG.

[lavarman84]

Reading what was said thus far, it seems like if you're not at a top law school, you're not going to get considered. Is that fairly accurate?

[Anonymous User]

Reading what was said thus far, it seems like if you're not at a top law school, you're not going to get considered. Is that fairly accurate?

This is not true. If you have the right LSAT (165+), you can get interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Few questions after having read responses by current and ex consultants:

1. I am planning on applying to MBB with about two years of Biglaw transactional experience. How much does LSAT matter? Went to decent school but didn't do so well on LSAT (low 160s)

2. During interview, any suggestions on how to approach selling my short experience as a corporate lawyer?

Thanks for your time in advance!

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks to Green for filling in on some questions!

Thanks for sharing your experience. If you're interested in business, why do consulting at MBB instead of a top investment bank (e.g., Goldman, PJT, Evercore, JPM)? Wouldn't you get paid more (especially at the elite boutique banks), travel less, and still work on high-level make-or-break business challenges at the banks? Any insight would be helpful.

As a JD/MBA at a T14/M7 school who is gunning for IB, I agree with where you are leading. Most people buy the "MBB allows for work-life balance" pitch, but I think MBB only buys you more predictability in workflow.

Why work bankers' hours, get paid half as much, and spend M-TH in Topeka?

Well, I can say easily we don't (typically) work anything close to banker hours. I've almost never worked more than 1-2 hours on a weekend or past 7pm on a Friday. I have the occasional late night but nothing approaching an all nighter yet. On the paid half as much, we get paid as much as BigLaw so in the same boat there.

Also, I encourage you to speak to associate-level bankers. The work is tedious and repetitive, the culture is terrible, lifestyle is significantly worse, and exit options are exclusively into corporate finance (not private equity like for analysts). If you want to solve for high pay alone, yes go banking no doubt. If not, there's lots of reasons to not go banking. This is coming from someone who received an investment banking offer out of law school for one of the above banks mentioned and turned it down for MBB.