Duke Law OCI 2016 (c/o 2018) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 3L so I guess I am ignorant to how this is working this year. Just apply now and email with your journal assignment.

I personally have been but the point still stands. Duke is dragging its feet with journal and with the changes in recruiting- every day that we go without the information is hurting our chances at competing for places. Even if its a minority of places, Duke shouldn't be a school not competing to get into those firms like our peer schools currently are.

[Anonymous User]

So Journal gate was a dud I guess. Another day to stress about it tomorrow. Do any 3ls have an idea when we actually will know? Its very hard trying to get interviews and email apps out when we don't have journal info and every competing school does by now.

Last year we got an email on July 11 (so one year ago today) that said "Journal invites will come by email at 10:00am tomorrow." And around 9:50am on July 12 the email was in my inbox. As somebody else mentioned, the exclusive journals will send their emails simultaneously. Whoever was saying they got an email today was stirring up panic - and did a good job of it from the looks of this thread.

Thanks. Ive heard journal stuff was delayed this year. Its just frustrating knowing literally every other top 12 school has journal decisions out and with the rapid rise of pre oci interviews this year we are at a hardcore disadvantage to say for example against Northwestern, who have known for over a month now and that is on their resumes

Just FYI, this is not true. Northwestern journal membership has not been announced yet.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks. Ive heard journal stuff was delayed this year. Its just frustrating knowing literally every other top 12 school has journal decisions out and with the rapid rise of pre oci interviews this year we are at a hardcore disadvantage to say for example against Northwestern, who have known for over a month now and that is on their resumes

You are NOT at a hardcore disadvantage. Pre-OCI interviews are not as big of a deal as people on TLS make it seem. VERY FEW people got pre-OCI offers last year. Most of those people would have still gotten V5 offers if they began interviewing at OCI in August. All firms (with the exception of Wachtell) like having Duke people. You'll be good.

See I disagree. From the partners Ive talked to, this year is much more pre-oci driven. 1 v20 partner I have spoken to directly said his firm is moving towards a much more pre-oci heavy recruiting model this summer on purpose because they can cut down on recruiting expenses. He said last year it was a handful of firms- like 5 or so that were involved in pre-oci. Now its essentially at least 50 of the top 100 vault firms. It is no longer v5 places. I have a callback already lined up with a firm in the 60s of the vault ranking for next week. It seems clear that last year was dipping the proverbial toe in the water. This year it is a full on dive head first. I work with 13 interns including myself. 11 of the 13 already have had callbacks and or offers made. The range of schools from HYS to top 25 places like GW, and ND. Out of the 13, Duke is the only one without journal information. So it might not be a strong causation, but at least minimally it seems Duke is at a current disadvantage given the immense rise of pre-oci interviews this year compared to other years and the fact all these competing schools have journal information out.

These personal anecdotes also seem to appear talking to other Duke rising 2ls. Many people in their offices are getting callbacks already but Duke has so far been light on the callbacks in comparison to say UVA. One of the factors might be as I'm suggesting is that our resumes do not have journal info on them yet, while other competing schools do.

But to say that Pre-oci is not a big deal this year is not true. They are happening and it sucks. But to deny that its happening is to be ignorant.

Also to the poster above: Quinn has essentially gotten rid of their summer program. Now they are giving bonuses to rising 3ls to come work for them instead of paying 2ls for the summer.

Rising 2L here. You're definitely exaggerating. First - there is at least 1 other t14 without journal. Second, half the v100 is not doing pre-OCI CBs thru MMs. For the ones that are - they're taking the high GPA stars of the class - if you think the firms that are giving out pre-OCI CBs give a shit about whether or not you're in a journal or not when you're in the top 10-20% of your class - you're mistaken.

I'm not trying to defend the late journal release, but you're making it seem like a huge deal in the grand scheme of things when it honestly doesn't.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks. Ive heard journal stuff was delayed this year. Its just frustrating knowing literally every other top 12 school has journal decisions out and with the rapid rise of pre oci interviews this year we are at a hardcore disadvantage to say for example against Northwestern, who have known for over a month now and that is on their resumes

You are NOT at a hardcore disadvantage. Pre-OCI interviews are not as big of a deal as people on TLS make it seem. VERY FEW people got pre-OCI offers last year. Most of those people would have still gotten V5 offers if they began interviewing at OCI in August. All firms (with the exception of Wachtell) like having Duke people. You'll be good.

See I disagree. From the partners Ive talked to, this year is much more pre-oci driven. 1 v20 partner I have spoken to directly said his firm is moving towards a much more pre-oci heavy recruiting model this summer on purpose because they can cut down on recruiting expenses. He said last year it was a handful of firms- like 5 or so that were involved in pre-oci. Now its essentially at least 50 of the top 100 vault firms. It is no longer v5 places. I have a callback already lined up with a firm in the 60s of the vault ranking for next week. It seems clear that last year was dipping the proverbial toe in the water. This year it is a full on dive head first. I work with 13 interns including myself. 11 of the 13 already have had callbacks and or offers made. The range of schools from HYS to top 25 places like GW, and ND. Out of the 13, Duke is the only one without journal information. So it might not be a strong causation, but at least minimally it seems Duke is at a current disadvantage given the immense rise of pre-oci interviews this year compared to other years and the fact all these competing schools have journal information out.

These personal anecdotes also seem to appear talking to other Duke rising 2ls. Many people in their offices are getting callbacks already but Duke has so far been light on the callbacks in comparison to say UVA. One of the factors might be as I'm suggesting is that our resumes do not have journal info on them yet, while other competing schools do.

But to say that Pre-oci is not a big deal this year is not true. They are happening and it sucks. But to deny that its happening is to be ignorant.

Also to the poster above: Quinn has essentially gotten rid of their summer program. Now they are giving bonuses to rising 3ls to come work for them instead of paying 2ls for the summer.

Rising 2L here. You're definitely exaggerating. First - there is at least 1 other t14 without journal. Second, half the v100 is not doing pre-OCI CBs thru MMs. For the ones that are - they're taking the high GPA stars of the class - if you think the firms that are giving out pre-OCI CBs give a shit whether or not you're in a journal or not when you're in the top 10-20% of your class - you're mistaken.

Well I'm at median at Duke with multiple CBS. I know people median at t25 schools with callbacks. It is no longer only the top 10-20% of the class.

[Anonymous User]

Well I'm at median at Duke with multiple CBS. I know people median at t25 schools with callbacks. It is no longer only the top 10-20% of the class.

Sounds like you're in a solid position then? What I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely that journal is the reason why you're not getting more callbacks. You say you're at median at Duke, the ones not giving callbacks are probably doing so because of your GPA.

Fwiw, networking and reaching out to partners that can get you in for an interview is 10x more important than a single line on a resume (GPA aside obviously) will ever be.

[Anonymous User]

Well I'm at median at Duke with multiple CBS. I know people median at t25 schools with callbacks. It is no longer only the top 10-20% of the class.

Sounds like you're in a solid position then? What I'm saying is that it's highly unlikely that journal is the reason why you're not getting more callbacks. You say you're at median at Duke, the ones not giving callbacks are probably doing so because of your GPA.

Fwiw, networking and reaching out to partners that can get you in for an interview is 10x more important than a single line on a resume (GPA aside obviously) will ever be.

Listen I don't disagree with you at all. My point is that it may be at least potentially hurting SOME duke students. If that is the case, then I feel like we should know journal outcomes sooner like MOST of the t14, rather than later. I understand its a big process and there are lots of case notes to review, but if Stanford can have all their non-Stanford law review journals announced before leaving for the summer and then STILL announcing the Law Review decision before any from Duke- well then I feel like there is a disservice being done at the moment. While it might not have a large effect on pre-oci stuff, it may in at least 1 case. If thats true, well then at some point Duke students are at a disadvantage over peer schools. Also I recognize Stanford is not exactly a peer school, I used this example because I know for certain that information about their journal stuff is correct.

[Anonymous User]

No journals until July 15-20

[Anonymous User]

"Dear Casenote Competition Participants

This brief message is to let you know that we are on track to release the results of the Casenote Competition on schedule . If all goes according to plan, we expect that you will receive notification between July 15-20.

We will release the results as soon as possible, keeping in mind the schedules for Fall Course Registration and On-Campus Interview bidding and your interest in planning around these events. The day before results are released, participants will receive an email with more specific information and timing of exclusive journal results and non-exclusive journal invitations. We appreciate your patience, and hope that you continue to enjoy your summer.

The Casenote Competition Team"

I am literally furious with how long this is taking. Love the part about how they are planning to release the decisions in planning around OCI. Well dear 3ls running this- a lot of stuff is now happening pre-oci. WE NEED ANSWERS ASAP.

I am however glad the powers to be have apparently seen this thread and realized how ridiculous this is.

[Anonymous User]

I can tell you that Duke's late journal release has been an issue for at least 5-6 years. Clearly the journals don't think it's going to matter. Hopefully employers have begun to understand by now the circumstances. I think it's silly that it takes so long.

That said, now that I'm on the other side of the table, I can't say that non-DLJ journals matter all that much unless maybe you're IP and you're on DLTR, or you're trying for environmental stuff, or you're trying for a job in Alaska.

[Anonymous User]

I can tell you that Duke's late journal release has been an issue for at least 5-6 years. Clearly the journals don't think it's going to matter. Hopefully employers have begun to understand by now the circumstances. I think it's silly that it takes so long.

That said, now that I'm on the other side of the table, I can't say that non-DLJ journals matter all that much unless maybe you're IP and you're on DLTR, or you're trying for environmental stuff, or you're trying for a job in Alaska.

I appreciate this point. My issue above has been in light of more callbacks and offers happening now before oci, it is imperative that the people running this competition realize we are being hurt by their delays that wouldn't have been as big of a deal even two years ago. Even if the likelihood is that employers understand or don't care about not having journal information, it is still a slight disadvantage compared to other peer schools. I highly doubt they could not release the decisions tomorrow, but instead are waiting till the weekend. At this point the only thing that happens is more potential room for disadvantages for Duke students with every day they procrastinate waiting.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks. Ive heard journal stuff was delayed this year. Its just frustrating knowing literally every other top 12 school has journal decisions out and with the rapid rise of pre oci interviews this year we are at a hardcore disadvantage to say for example against Northwestern, who have known for over a month now and that is on their resumes

You are NOT at a hardcore disadvantage. Pre-OCI interviews are not as big of a deal as people on TLS make it seem. VERY FEW people got pre-OCI offers last year. Most of those people would have still gotten V5 offers if they began interviewing at OCI in August. All firms (with the exception of Wachtell) like having Duke people. You'll be good.

See I disagree. From the partners Ive talked to, this year is much more pre-oci driven. 1 v20 partner I have spoken to directly said his firm is moving towards a much more pre-oci heavy recruiting model this summer on purpose because they can cut down on recruiting expenses. He said last year it was a handful of firms- like 5 or so that were involved in pre-oci. Now its essentially at least 50 of the top 100 vault firms. It is no longer v5 places. I have a callback already lined up with a firm in the 60s of the vault ranking for next week. It seems clear that last year was dipping the proverbial toe in the water. This year it is a full on dive head first. I work with 13 interns including myself. 11 of the 13 already have had callbacks and or offers made. The range of schools from HYS to top 25 places like GW, and ND. Out of the 13, Duke is the only one without journal information. So it might not be a strong causation, but at least minimally it seems Duke is at a current disadvantage given the immense rise of pre-oci interviews this year compared to other years and the fact all these competing schools have journal information out.

These personal anecdotes also seem to appear talking to other Duke rising 2ls. Many people in their offices are getting callbacks already but Duke has so far been light on the callbacks in comparison to say UVA. One of the factors might be as I'm suggesting is that our resumes do not have journal info on them yet, while other competing schools do.

But to say that Pre-oci is not a big deal this year is not true. They are happening and it sucks. But to deny that its happening is to be ignorant.

Also to the poster above: Quinn has essentially gotten rid of their summer program. Now they are giving bonuses to rising 3ls to come work for them instead of paying 2ls for the summer.

I am above referenced poster (not the quoted one), and yes, I knew that about Quinn hence me mentioning them at all.

On another note I think you need to chill about the journal situation. General advice for you all is that if you get too worked up about things out of control then the whole interview/OCI process will be hell for you. If you think journals should come out earlier then that's something you can bring up to Duke administration in September or whenever your summer offer is accepted and you're done with the stuff that actually matters.

[Anonymous User]

See I disagree. From the partners Ive talked to, this year is much more pre-oci driven. 1 v20 partner I have spoken to directly said his firm is moving towards a much more pre-oci heavy recruiting model this summer on purpose because they can cut down on recruiting expenses. He said last year it was a handful of firms- like 5 or so that were involved in pre-oci. Now its essentially at least 50 of the top 100 vault firms. It is no longer v5 places. I have a callback already lined up with a firm in the 60s of the vault ranking for next week. It seems clear that last year was dipping the proverbial toe in the water. This year it is a full on dive head first. I work with 13 interns including myself. 11 of the 13 already have had callbacks and or offers made. The range of schools from HYS to top 25 places like GW, and ND. Out of the 13, Duke is the only one without journal information. So it might not be a strong causation, but at least minimally it seems Duke is at a current disadvantage given the immense rise of pre-oci interviews this year compared to other years and the fact all these competing schools have journal information out.

These personal anecdotes also seem to appear talking to other Duke rising 2ls. Many people in their offices are getting callbacks already but Duke has so far been light on the callbacks in comparison to say UVA. One of the factors might be as I'm suggesting is that our resumes do not have journal info on them yet, while other competing schools do.

But to say that Pre-oci is not a big deal this year is not true. They are happening and it sucks. But to deny that its happening is to be ignorant.

Also to the poster above: Quinn has essentially gotten rid of their summer program. Now they are giving bonuses to rising 3ls to come work for them instead of paying 2ls for the summer.

Rising 3L here, on a journal, got an offer from a non-OCI firm (and interviews from others): Not trying to discount everything you're saying--OCI does move earlier and earlier every year--but partners say this every year. They also understand that if you haven't heard back from journals, you can't put it on your resume--particularly if you seek out Duke alums. You should go ahead and apply. Don't use it as an excuse not to reach out. Use it as an excuse later to follow up with good news.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly the late journals might help Duke students if anything. If you hustle with decent grades during the summer and firms know that journals aren't out yet, maybe you snag an offer at some point and then later you end up on a secondary journal. But if you end up getting on DLJ, you'll very likely be in demand at OCI anyway even if you missed out from garnering the pre-OCI benefit of that.

I think it probably doesn't matter much anyway and 2Ls entering OCI are doing what 2Ls entering OCI do best: being neurotic. But the stress is real so take care of yourselves.

[J9ofDiamonds]

The journal shit is way overblown. If you aren't getting pre Oci callbacks, it's not because journal results haven't come out yet. It's because you aren't top X%. Unless things have drastically changed in the last 2 years, you need to look really good on paper to get pre Oci callbacks. the only people I knew who had pre Oci callbacks were either top 5%, patent, or from Texas

[Serett]

^^^This, with the addition of non-major regional markets to the list.

Edit: But if you (the general you, not any one poster) want to freak out about journal or get an ulcer over early mass-mailing or reach out to firms early, feel free. It won't hurt your odds. Just spare your classmates the histrionics and arm-chair analysis over how "crucial" it is.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L, new to the thread: not looking to justify the delayed journal release (they pushed back grading deadlines for some of the journals, for whatever reason), but if you're positioned well enough to get pre-OCI CBs, you might be able to get an offer before journal acceptance deadlines and get to turn journal offers down, saving yourself the hassle during 2L/3L.

[Anonymous User]

3L: I think a lot of 2Ls are way overblowing the value of pre-OCI offers. With very few exceptions, most people I know who got pre-OCI offers didn't accept them, they took offers from OCI. No matter what some random partner said, pre-OCI is NOT the primary way to get a job. By all means hustle, but pre-OCI offers mostly serve as an indicator to OCI firms (that you can live without) and as a way to keep you from freaking the fuck out during OCI (which everyone does anyway).

Don't use journals or pre-OCI offers as another reason to get stressed. OCI sucks enough without that.

[Anonymous User]

I can tell you that Duke's late journal release has been an issue for at least 5-6 years. Clearly the journals don't think it's going to matter. Hopefully employers have begun to understand by now the circumstances. I think it's silly that it takes so long.

That said, now that I'm on the other side of the table, I can't say that non-DLJ journals matter all that much unless maybe you're IP and you're on DLTR, or you're trying for environmental stuff, or you're trying for a job in Alaska.

I appreciate this point. My issue above has been in light of more callbacks and offers happening now before oci, it is imperative that the people running this competition realize we are being hurt by their delays that wouldn't have been as big of a deal even two years ago. Even if the likelihood is that employers understand or don't care about not having journal information, it is still a slight disadvantage compared to other peer schools. I highly doubt they could not release the decisions tomorrow, but instead are waiting till the weekend. At this point the only thing that happens is more potential room for disadvantages for Duke students with every day they procrastinate waiting.

Totally agree

[Anonymous User]

If we have a career fair coming up (like a week from now), do we bring an updated resume with Journal info to the screener? or do we email recruiting beforehand with the updated resume?

[Anonymous User]

If we have a career fair coming up (like a week from now), do we bring an updated resume with Journal info to the screener? or do we email recruiting beforehand with the updated resume?

At the rate journal decisions are coming, you might still not have it by then. Even harvard law review just announced decisions....

[Anonymous User]

If we have a career fair coming up (like a week from now), do we bring an updated resume with Journal info to the screener? or do we email recruiting beforehand with the updated resume?

At the rate journal decisions are coming, you might still not have it by then. Even harvard law review just announced decisions....

Well, under the assumption that they get them to us in the timeframe they said they would in this week's email.

[Anonymous User]

If we have a career fair coming up (like a week from now), do we bring an updated resume with Journal info to the screener? or do we email recruiting beforehand with the updated resume?

At the rate journal decisions are coming, you might still not have it by then. Even harvard law review just announced decisions....

Well, under the assumption that they get them to us in the timeframe they said they would in this week's email.

Which is a big assumption considering they have delayed journal decisions internally twice already. Harvard Law Review has always been considered the last law review to make decisions.. yet here we still are for ALL the journals

[Anonymous User]

Penn doesn't find out til the 23rd. NW isn't out yet either. yes, its taking longer than it should, but still - we're not the only ones.

[Anonymous User]

i cannot wait to see what this thread looks like during OCI if journal decisions are causing this much ruckus

[Anonymous User]

i cannot wait to see what this thread looks like during OCI if journal decisions are causing this much ruckus

Its going to be a disaster. RELEASE THE DAMN JOURNAL DECISIONS. #pitchforks