Columbia EIP 2016 Forum

[wons]

Anybody know where a 3.6 lands in the class percentile approximately.

Around where should I be thinking if I want NY transactional? Potentially finance oriented.

NY transactional is easy - with a 3.6, you interview at Cravath/S&C/DPW/Cleary/STB, and you pick between whichever 2-4 of those give you offers. You might dabble with a callback at Debevoise if you are feeling particularly frisky and are certain you don't want to do M&A.

Does 3.6 really make it likely to get 2-4 offers from those firms?

Yes. As jbagelboy notes, this assumes you're not bombing interviews left and right, but if you're within 1 stdev of normal social skills, you should end up with multiple offers; in the bizarre scenario in which you don't (which probably means you are actually infinitely weirder than you think you are) then Latham or Weil or Kirkland or some place like that will snatch you right up.

[Anonymous User]

Chambers and Partners is actually a pretty useful source to gauge general practice strengths in New York. Def more helpful than Vault. I used it as a rough guide when I was bidding. Also want to echo the dangers of First Failed Bid. Missed a couple firms that I would have wanted by bidding them too close to the FFB and being too greedy. If you really want a firm, make sure to give it enough cushion.

Corporate - http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... torial/5/1
Litigation - http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... torial/5/1

[Tiago Splitter]

Anybody know where a 3.6 lands in the class percentile approximately.

Around where should I be thinking if I want NY transactional? Potentially finance oriented.

NY transactional is easy - with a 3.6, you interview at Cravath/S&C/DPW/Cleary/STB, and you pick between whichever 2-4 of those give you offers. You might dabble with a callback at Debevoise if you are feeling particularly frisky and are certain you don't want to do M&A.

Does 3.6 really make it likely to get 2-4 offers from those firms?

Yes. As jbagelboy notes, this assumes you're not bombing interviews left and right, but if you're within 1 stdev of normal social skills, you should end up with multiple offers; in the bizarre scenario in which you don't (which probably means you are actually infinitely weirder than you think you are) then Latham or Weil or Kirkland or some place like that will snatch you right up.

Yeah you still have another 15-20 interviews minimum just in case.

[wons]

Chambers and Partners is actually a pretty useful source to gauge general practice strengths in New York. Def more helpful than Vault. I used it as a rough guide when I was bidding. Also want to echo the dangers of First Failed Bid. Missed a couple firms that I would have wanted by bidding them too close to the FFB and being too greedy. If you really want a firm, make sure to give it enough cushion.

Corporate - http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... torial/5/1
Litigation - http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... torial/5/1

For transactional, you should also look at cap markets:
http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1278 ... torial/5/1

[ph5354a]

Just checking in, here to help/distract me from bar prep.

If it hasn't already been said, get on that pre-EIP interview grind as soon as all your grades are in. This is especially important for median/sub-median people. Use any contacts you have from your 1L job or upperclassman you know at the firm and get in here, no matter what OCS says.

[RSN]

Just checking in, here to help/distract me from bar prep.

If it hasn't already been said, get on that pre-EIP interview grind as soon as all your grades are in. This is especially important for median/sub-median people. Use any contacts you have from your 1L job or upperclassman you know at the firm and get in here, no matter what OCS says.

What do you mean by this exactly? I'm still a little unclear on whether/how we should be reaching out to firms, both those that aren't coming to EIP and those that are, the latter of which I've definitely heard mixed messages on (not from OCS, from others).

[ph5354a]

Just checking in, here to help/distract me from bar prep.

If it hasn't already been said, get on that pre-EIP interview grind as soon as all your grades are in. This is especially important for median/sub-median people. Use any contacts you have from your 1L job or upperclassman you know at the firm and get in here, no matter what OCS says.

What do you mean by this exactly? I'm still a little unclear on whether/how we should be reaching out to firms, both those that aren't coming to EIP and those that are, the latter of which I've definitely heard mixed messages on (not from OCS, from others).

Those that aren't coming to EIP, i would definitely do straight-up mass mail (email to recruiting with cover letter, transcript resume, though I didn't mass mail so others can give more guidance). That's the only way you'll get in front of them.

For those that are coming to EIP, use any contacts you have to reach out to the recruiter for an interview, especially if it's a firm you feel strongly about. These contacts might be someone you hit it off with at a reception (and have already followed-up with such that they would actually remember you), someone at your 1L internship that used to work/knows people at the firm and can put you in touch with someone, or rising 3L/4Ls that summered at the firm and know you well enough to pass your name along favorably to the recruiters. This latter category is also great for recommendations during the regular EIP process, but if you get in early enough, it may translate to a pre-EIP interview.

For me personally, I only had one pre-EIP interview because I didn't understand what they were and put no effort into obtaining them. It involved knowing at 4L at the firm, having coffee with them to talk about the firm more, and that person passing my name along to the recruiter. In that case, the recruiter actually emailed me first, but I think it would've been equally appropriate if I had emailed the recruiter first (Something including language like "Met with <incoming first year associate> who spoke very positively about their experience at the firm. I would love to meet with your attorneys to learn more about your xyz practice. Attached is my transcript and resume.")

Worst case scenario, the recruiter just notes your interest and says "See you at EIP", which is fine. Best case, they like your transcript/resume and schedule you for a pre-EIP interview. This will usually be a callback (i.e. half day interview with a couple associates and a couple partners), but that depends on the firm. It's in the firms interest to do this before EIP because if you're a qualified and interested candidate, that's one less person they have to interview at EIP and one more open interview slot.

If you do it right, there's no downside that I can think of (practicing lawyers feel free to contradict). Obviously, don't stretch your contacts too much. For example, I wouldn't cold-email someone you talked to briefly at a reception in February and never spoke to again. But having a callback already, if not an offer, can really boost your confidence going into EIP. Even if it doesn't turn into an offer, at the very least it's practice. Feel free to PM with questions as well.

ETA: I don't intend on scaring anyone into doing this (Mono will take care of that for me). If you're above median and only bidding NYC, EIP will probably be fine for you with some thoughtful bidding. But if you're in New York for the summer and have some connections to exploit, then there's no good reason not to explore this option.

[Anonymous User]

If you're in a small city for the summer and not back to nyc until right before EIP is there any point to mass mail pre-EIP?

[smaug]

If you're in a small city for the summer and not back to nyc until right before EIP is there any point to mass mail pre-EIP?

Yes.

[Anonymous User]

In 2016, if you haven't emailed a bunch of firms asking about coming in for interviews pre-EIP, you are behind the 8 ball, not just at CLS, but among peer schools. The summers I was at firms the number of people coming through for mass-mail callback interviews grew substantially and the number of offers given out grew as well. My EIP year, a few people skipped EIP entirely and a great many more walked in the door with 1-3 offers from very desirable firms (e.g. Shearman, Skadden, Paul Weiss, Covington, DP, etc) and offices (e.g. LA/SF/DC/CHI). Last year, the number was even higher and I expect it'll continue to rise.

Coming into EIP with one or more offers in hand is a massive stress reliever and, I believe, makes people better interviewers because they aren't desperate and nervous anymore.

When should you start doing this? RIGHT FUCKING NOW! Early/Mid July is very active.

[Anonymous User]

I think I'm confused about mass-mailing firms that are going to be at EIP. Do we acknowledge that they are going to be at EIP and just say we wanted to reach out and indicate our interest before hand?

Also I'm trying to figure out my action plan. Still waiting on a couple grades, but it looks like I'm going to be low Stone or just below. I am a very good interviewer, although that is not going to help get me the interviews in the first place. Am interested in NYC financial regulatory stuff, but also interested in DC. Any advice?

[Anonymous User]

I think I'm confused about mass-mailing firms that are going to be at EIP. Do we acknowledge that they are going to be at EIP and just say we wanted to reach out and indicate our interest before hand?

Also I'm trying to figure out my action plan. Still waiting on a couple grades, but it looks like I'm going to be low Stone or just below. I am a very good interviewer, although that is not going to help get me the interviews in the first place. Am interested in NYC financial regulatory stuff, but also interested in DC. Any advice?

On the same lines as that, what about firms that we plan on bidding (in order to get the ones we miss from the lottery)? Should we mail them before our interview schedule comes out or immediately after? And do firms dislike it when we do that?

[Anonymous User]

For mass mailing, should we wait until our journal result and official honor designation comes out( which I believe would not happen until early July)?

[TheRealSantaClaus]

.

[Anonymous User]

Don't wait until journal results or lottery results to come out. Start sending out emails now.

When you get on a journal, you can send and updated resume via email, but if you wait until mid-July to send out emails, you're looking at (best case) interviews at the very end of July and (worst case) being near enough to EIP where they tell you to just wait for EIP and let them know if you don't get a lottery spot.

No need to mention that they'll be at EIP. Just talk about why you like them and let them know that you're interested in and available to come in for interviews before EIP.

[Anonymous User]

I don't get all this panic mongering about doing pre-EIP stuff. I had a few callbacks lined up pre-EIP, sure, but I really don't think it appreciably helped me, and EIP went just fine anyway.

[Anonymous User]

I don't get all this panic mongering about doing pre-EIP stuff. I had a few callbacks lined up pre-EIP, sure, but I really don't think it appreciably helped me, and EIP went just fine anyway.

It's not panic. Its taking advantage of every opportunity. Why go into EIP w/ 0 offers when you can go in with a few? I had 5, all from the V10 and with median grades. Why? According to two partners i spoke to, it was because I hustled my butt off and showed a specific interest in those firms before anyone else did.

[Tiago Splitter]

Yeah it's not panic mongering it's just an opportunity that wasn't really there a few years ago. Might as well take advantage.

[Anonymous User]

GPA:3.61. Should I be mailing to get an early offer? Any suggestions on where to go?

[Anonymous User]

If I have above a 3.41, can I put Stone Scholar in the honors section of my resume for the purpose of mass mailing even though the school has not officially provided us with honors designations?

[Anonymous User]

If I have above a 3.41, can I put Stone Scholar in the honors section of my resume for the purpose of mass mailing even though the school has not officially provided us with honors designations?

Also curious about this.

[Tiago Splitter]

If I have above a 3.41, can I put Stone Scholar in the honors section of my resume for the purpose of mass mailing even though the school has not officially provided us with honors designations?

Also curious about this.

I would.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

ETA: I don't intend on scaring anyone into doing this (Mono will take care of that for me). If you're above median and only bidding NYC, EIP will probably be fine for you with some thoughtful bidding. But if you're in New York for the summer and have some connections to exploit, then there's no good reason not to explore this option.

I mean, I went on and on about how you want to mass-mail, and get as many interviews as you can, and bid conservatively, thinking I was trying to help, and last year's thread was nonetheless full of people going "None of my 12 interviews went well! OMG so scared guys!" and I was just sitting there like "I didn't need to be Cassandra to see that one coming."

But hey, why bother putting in a few days of effort to put yourself in the best possible position? Things will "probably be fine," and after all, it's only your career.

[Anonymous User]

Is there a detriment to just missing Kent (3.76)? Any advice for applying for NY lit with that GPA?

[smaug]

Is there a detriment to just missing Kent (3.76)? Any advice for applying for NY lit with that GPA?

No real advice needed.