Bringing in a client Forum

[pancakes3]

OP's uncle didn't even show a genuine interest. A chance meeting where in the course of small talk some guy says "Oh hey, you're in law school? Sure could use a good lawyer!" ::paternalistic chuckle:: ::tussles hair:: does not amount to a legitimate solicitation of legal services much less a soft commitment.

[20160810]

OP's uncle didn't even show a genuine interest. A chance meeting where in the course of small talk some guy says "Oh hey, you're in law school? Sure could use a good lawyer!" ::paternalistic chuckle:: ::tussles hair:: does not amount to a legitimate solicitation of legal services much less a soft commitment.

OP is a seasoned litigator I think he knows a whale when he lands one

[Huluba]

OP's uncle didn't even show a genuine interest. A chance meeting where in the course of small talk some guy says "Oh hey, you're in law school? Sure could use a good lawyer!" ::paternalistic chuckle:: ::tussles hair:: does not amount to a legitimate solicitation of legal services much less a soft commitment.

OP is a seasoned litigator I think he knows a whale when he lands one

I think this is all being overstated. OP might have a chance to bring in some business, stranger things have happened. That being said:

OP, I think it would be wise to wait until you are an actual associate in order to try to bring in this business. Keep up the contact with the company and maybe mention that when you are working at the firm full time you would appreciate an opportunity to discuss doing business with them.

Too many things could go wrong when trying to bring them in. I.e. you schedule a meeting, they come late or don't show up, or they show up and don't seem interested or are obnoxious. As a summer intern/associate, its hard to believe you have built up enough cache to get away with something going wrong. Business generation is not as simple as just telling someone at the company to call "Partner A". There are legitimate downsides and while it seems easy just to bring them in, there is a very small chance of upside.

Summary: Get a full-time offer, stay in contact with them, and revisit when you are an associate.

[ballouttacontrol]

ITT a bunch of sarcastic assholes in biglaw don't believe that early experience actually exists in small firms

I know plenty of people that argued under student practice rules during school. I also signed 2 clients during law school under my own patent proprietorship (independent of my summer employers). (Edit: oh, and multiple other patent people i knew had done the same.) When i asked my vault firm about them they basically said they weren't interested unless they would generate $100k+

I subsequently left to a firm that supports real bizdev

My advice to OP is to not even bring it up to the firm until you both have a firm offer to join after graduation, AND you know you will be returning. Why would u even want to bring a client in while a summer? You're probably not gonna get origination credit, and you could also lose the client if u end up at another firm and u can't bring them along.

What I would be doing is having lunch with people from the potential client and strengthening the relationship for the future

[rpupkin]

OP,

I just want to say that I think it's very cool that you got to argue a motion to dismiss in court. Good for the firm (and good for the client!) for letting you do this. There are senior associates (and even junior partners) at big law firms who haven't had such an opportunity.

Even though you're obviously having a great experience at your firm, and even though I'm sure the folks there like you, I still think you should hold back on the "bringing in a client" business until/when you're an actual associate. And stay humble.

[ClubberLang]

ITT a bunch of sarcastic assholes in biglaw don't believe that early experience actually exists in small firms

I know plenty of people that argued under student practice rules during school. I also signed 2 clients during law school under my own patent proprietorship (independent of my summer employers). (Edit: oh, and multiple other patent people i knew had done the same.) When i asked my vault firm about them they basically said they weren't interested unless they would generate $100k+

There's a difference between early experience and the unauthorized practice of law. I'd be curious to hear more about this "patent proprietorship" you ran and signed clients to while a student, because I'm pretty certain that any student practice act requires meaningful supervision of a real attorney.

Also, early experience is a bit of a flame. Personally I would not want to work for a firm that sends a brand new 2L SA to court to "defend" a motion to dismiss for a long term paying client. Anyone who would send a SA to perform such a task is an idiot, and one does not become a better lawyer by learning from a bunch of idiots.

[rpupkin]

Also, early experience is a bit of a flame. Personally I would not want to work for a firm that sends a brand new 2L SA to court to "defend" a motion to dismiss for a long term paying client. Anyone who would send a SA to perform such a task is an idiot, and one does not become a better lawyer by learning from a bunch of idiots.

This is embarrassingly wrong. It sounds like the rationalization of a boomer big law partner justifying his associates doing nothing but doc review and discovery responses for the first five years of their careers.

[ClubberLang]

Also, early experience is a bit of a flame. Personally I would not want to work for a firm that sends a brand new 2L SA to court to "defend" a motion to dismiss for a long term paying client. Anyone who would send a SA to perform such a task is an idiot, and one does not become a better lawyer by learning from a bunch of idiots.

This is embarrassingly wrong. It sounds like the rationalization of a boomer big law partner justifying his associates doing nothing but doc review and discovery responses for the first five years of their careers.

I see where you are coming from, but have to ask if you think it's smart to send SA's to defend motions to dismiss?

[rpupkin]

Also, early experience is a bit of a flame. Personally I would not want to work for a firm that sends a brand new 2L SA to court to "defend" a motion to dismiss for a long term paying client. Anyone who would send a SA to perform such a task is an idiot, and one does not become a better lawyer by learning from a bunch of idiots.

This is embarrassingly wrong. It sounds like the rationalization of a boomer big law partner justifying his associates doing nothing but doc review and discovery responses for the first five years of their careers.

I see where you are coming from, but have to ask if you think it's smart to send SA's to defend motions to dismiss?

The plaintiff's claim was small (only $30K!), and the client supported letting the OP argue. Also, it's quite possible that everyone knew the oral argument wouldn't matter one way or the other. Also, many judges like it when firms/clients give junior associates the opportunity to argue in court; the firm will get brownie points with the judge.

I got the opportunity to argue in court as a junior associate, and it's because I had partners who vouched for me and clients who were willing to let me do it. Yes, a junior associate (or a mid-level associate or a senior associate) who is doing something for the first time is more likely to make mistakes, but that's how you learn. Firms that take such risks on junior attorneys end up with more competent and capable senior attorneys. I could not disagree more with your suggestion that it's "idiotic" for a firm to take risks on/invest in their junior attorneys in this way.

[20160810]

I think the key takeaway is that literally everyone agrees he shouldn't do this and he's still apparently going to do it. Whether he got to help on some law and motion oral argument is a side issue and not a big one.

[Anonymous User]

I never said I was still going to do it, in fact I was persuaded a while back...but damn it's fun watching some people get heated over this

[reasonable_man]

1200 years ago when I was a 2LSA, I was put on a trial with a semi-retired partner to assist. He was given the case at the end just to try the case - he hadn't worked up the file, the case belonged to another partner and associate. The semi retired partner was a real gem of a guy. A sincerely nice man who enjoyed teaching young lawyers. He was also a very solid trial attorney. I was fortunate to get the assignment to work with him.

I reviewed the file and I realized that there was a big evidentiary issue that had been missed, which would seriously benefit our client and preclude much of the testimony by plaintiff on a key issue. The partner was extremely impressed and floored that no one else had seen the issue during the 5 years the case was prepared leading up to trial. At the final pre-trial conference, the partner had me in tow (bag man status - latterly carrying the litigation bags). Judge called us back in chambers and wanted to discuss the merits of the case. Partner says to the judge, your honor - I'd like to hand you this bench memo and I'll be honest, my clerk over here, spotted this issue and wrote this brief. Mr. Reasonable_Man is a second year law student and if the Court and plaintiff's counsel would not mind, I'd like to afford him the opportunity to explain it to you. After a deep breath, I made my pitch. The judge sent us out of the room. The partner said "good job kid - we may settle this thing today." The plaintiff came out and numbers flew back and forth and we wound up settling the case for about half the amount our client had authorized us to settle. The next day, I was copied on an e-mail to the firm managing partners, my direct supervisor and HR asking that a note be placed in my file indicating that my extraordinary research and issue spotting skills, capitalized by a strong oral argument before XYZ judge lead to us settling the case for an important client for 1/2 the approved settlement authority. For every 10 douchebag lawyers you meet - there is a selfless guy like this partner willing to share credit and help out a young lawyer.

That was the only time I ever had something like that happen. It can happen, but its rare. In smaller firms, opportunities to do "real lawyering" pop up because not every case involves $600 million dollars.

[reasonable_man]

I never said I was still going to do it, in fact I was persuaded a while back...but damn it's fun watching some people get heated over this

Don't try and be reasonable you little shit.

[Giddy-Up]

Love the shameless self aggrandizing RM posts!

[pancakes3]

I never said I was still going to do it, in fact I was persuaded a while back...but damn it's fun watching some people get heated over this

1) it seemed to default to the incumbent notion that you were going to do it as of your last post this morning

2) i know i sure love it when multiple people unanimously tell me that my patently stupid idea was patently stupid. better than sex.

[Magic Hat]

ITT a bunch of sarcastic assholes in biglaw don't believe that early experience actually exists in small firms

I know plenty of people that argued under student practice rules during school. I also signed 2 clients during law school under my own patent proprietorship (independent of my summer employers). (Edit: oh, and multiple other patent people i knew had done the same.) When i asked my vault firm about them they basically said they weren't interested unless they would generate $100k+

There's a difference between early experience and the unauthorized practice of law. I'd be curious to hear more about this "patent proprietorship" you ran and signed clients to while a student, because I'm pretty certain that any student practice act requires meaningful supervision of a real attorney.

Also, early experience is a bit of a flame. Personally I would not want to work for a firm that sends a brand new 2L SA to court to "defend" a motion to dismiss for a long term paying client. Anyone who would send a SA to perform such a task is an idiot, and one does not become a better lawyer by learning from a bunch of idiots.

Unless he is a patent agent.

[reasonable_man]

Love the shameless self aggrandizing RM posts!

Glad you enjoyed it. I'm always happy to talk about how great I am.

[20160810]

Love the shameless self aggrandizing RM posts!

Glad you enjoyed it. I'm always happy to talk about how great I am.

How big is your cock?

I don't want an answer in inches. Dunk it in a graduated cylinder and tell me the displacement

[imalreadyamember?]

OP,

I just want to say that I think it's very cool that you got to argue a motion to dismiss in court. Good for the firm (and good for the client!) for letting you do this. There are senior associates (and even junior partners) at big law firms who haven't had such an opportunity.

Even though you're obviously having a great experience at your firm, and even though I'm sure the folks there like you, I still think you should hold back on the "bringing in a client" business until/when you're an actual associate. And stay humble.

God in heaven kill me if I make partner somewhere where they still don't trust me to actually speak.

[Giddy-Up]

Love the shameless self aggrandizing RM posts!

Glad you enjoyed it. I'm always happy to talk about how great I am.

How big is your cock?

I don't want an answer in inches. Dunk it in a graduated cylinder and tell me the displacement

My guess is same percentile as his legendary MBE score

[reasonable_man]

Love the shameless self aggrandizing RM posts!

Glad you enjoyed it. I'm always happy to talk about how great I am.

How big is your cock?

I don't want an answer in inches. Dunk it in a graduated cylinder and tell me the displacement

My guess is same percentile as his legendary MBE score

Well in that case I should probably have a warning label put together. Wouldn't want anyone to get hurt.

[imalreadyamember?]

Also, early experience is a bit of a flame. Personally I would not want to work for a firm that sends a brand new 2L SA to court to "defend" a motion to dismiss for a long term paying client. Anyone who would send a SA to perform such a task is an idiot, and one does not become a better lawyer by learning from a bunch of idiots.

This is embarrassingly wrong. It sounds like the rationalization of a boomer big law partner justifying his associates doing nothing but doc review and discovery responses for the first five years of their careers.

I see where you are coming from, but have to ask if you think it's smart to send SA's to defend motions to dismiss?

If it was worth $20k then he might have been the only lawyer in the office whose billing rate was low enough to be worth arguing.

[ballouttacontrol]

ITT a bunch of sarcastic assholes in biglaw don't believe that early experience actually exists in small firms

I know plenty of people that argued under student practice rules during school. I also signed 2 clients during law school under my own patent proprietorship (independent of my summer employers). (Edit: oh, and multiple other patent people i knew had done the same.) When i asked my vault firm about them they basically said they weren't interested unless they would generate $100k+

There's a difference between early experience and the unauthorized practice of law. I'd be curious to hear more about this "patent proprietorship" you ran and signed clients to while a student, because I'm pretty certain that any student practice act requires meaningful supervision of a real attorney.

Also, early experience is a bit of a flame. Personally I would not want to work for a firm that sends a brand new 2L SA to court to "defend" a motion to dismiss for a long term paying client. Anyone who would send a SA to perform such a task is an idiot, and one does not become a better lawyer by learning from a bunch of idiots.

literally everything you just said was dumb and makes you sound like you're a 1L or some shit

And see 37 CFR 11.6 re: patent agents before you continue making yourself look dumber

[0heL]

how does anyone not see that this is a flame...

[rpupkin]

how does anyone not see that this is a flame...

Because it all sounds plausible for a law student working at a small firm.