cried at my desk for first time Forum

[Anonymous User]

There are people out there who make $20 an hour with a JD and still get bitched at... for example, for not clocking out for a 30 minute lunch. It's really humiliating and damaging to one's self-esteem to be such a fucking failure at life. They probably would have killed themselves but for the fact that they had no debt.

They aren't a failure at life because of their job.
Posts like this always get me because my aunt committed suicide because of her mental state in large part from feeling like a failure in a job.

There is just so much more to life and who a person is than your job. People care more than someone may realize when they are depressed.

I wish law school required classes on protecting your mental health. So many law students and lawyers are clinically depressed. It's probably an epidemic within the population, along with alcoholism and obesity.

Sorry about your aunt. In the same token, hyperbole on the internet should be assumed and not taken seriously especially when it is quite obvious.
Failure is such a relative term is it not? A vast majority of elite law schools, faculty, alumni, and students have nothing but contempt for non-T14 and non-biglaw/clerkship track students. This is the general rule. The reality might be different for each individual as we have different standards of success.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in public interest. Different world but can totally sympathize. It's tough to put a finger on exactly what it is, but the legal profession as a whole seems to have more cry worthy moments than most jobs.

[Tls2016]

There are people out there who make $20 an hour with a JD and still get bitched at... for example, for not clocking out for a 30 minute lunch. It's really humiliating and damaging to one's self-esteem to be such a fucking failure at life. They probably would have killed themselves but for the fact that they had no debt.

They aren't a failure at life because of their job.
Posts like this always get me because my aunt committed suicide because of her mental state in large part from feeling like a failure in a job.

There is just so much more to life and who a person is than your job. People care more than someone may realize when they are depressed.

I wish law school required classes on protecting your mental health. So many law students and lawyers are clinically depressed. It's probably an epidemic within the population, along with alcoholism and obesity.

Sorry about your aunt. In the same token, hyperbole on the internet should be assumed and not taken seriously especially when it is quite obvious.
Failure is such a relative term is it not? A vast majority of elite law schools, faculty, alumni, and students have nothing but contempt for non-T14 and non-biglaw/clerkship track students. This is the general rule. The reality might be different for each individual as we have different standards of success.

So broken mouse was being hyperbolic about doc review contract lawyers being suicidal? I don't agree about the contempt but that's a different question.
Either way, I stand by the need for mental health training of some kind in law school or for lawyers.

[TLSModBot]

There are people out there who make $20 an hour with a JD and still get bitched at... for example, for not clocking out for a 30 minute lunch. It's really humiliating and damaging to one's self-esteem to be such a fucking failure at life. They probably would have killed themselves but for the fact that they had no debt.

They aren't a failure at life because of their job.
Posts like this always get me because my aunt committed suicide because of her mental state in large part from feeling like a failure in a job.

There is just so much more to life and who a person is than your job. People care more than someone may realize when they are depressed.

I wish law school required classes on protecting your mental health. So many law students and lawyers are clinically depressed. It's probably an epidemic within the population, along with alcoholism and obesity.

Sorry about your aunt. In the same token, hyperbole on the internet should be assumed and not taken seriously especially when it is quite obvious.
Failure is such a relative term is it not? A vast majority of elite law schools, faculty, alumni, and students have nothing but contempt for non-T14 and non-biglaw/clerkship track students. This is the general rule. The reality might be different for each individual as we have different standards of success.

Nah, calling people "fucking failures at life" and assuming they "probably would have killed themselves" are just shitty things to say regardless of a "LOLZ just joking guise" follow-up.

[lavarman84]

CLS hopeful will inevitably be sitting in his own office a few years from now at 1am trying to figure out how he can possible write an entire motion to dismiss by morning while his/her SO sends him text messages wondering when he/she is going to see CLShopeful again and CLShopeful will be thinking back to this post and going, "yeah, I was a douche."

Why the fuck am I considering doing biglaw?

[El Pollito]

There are people out there who make $20 an hour with a JD and still get bitched at... for example, for not clocking out for a 30 minute lunch. It's really humiliating and damaging to one's self-esteem to be such a fucking failure at life. They probably would have killed themselves but for the fact that they had no debt.

They aren't a failure at life because of their job.
Posts like this always get me because my aunt committed suicide because of her mental state in large part from feeling like a failure in a job.

There is just so much more to life and who a person is than your job. People care more than someone may realize when they are depressed.

I wish law school required classes on protecting your mental health. So many law students and lawyers are clinically depressed. It's probably an epidemic within the population, along with alcoholism and obesity.

Sorry about your aunt. In the same token, hyperbole on the internet should be assumed and not taken seriously especially when it is quite obvious.
Failure is such a relative term is it not? A vast majority of elite law schools, faculty, alumni, and students have nothing but contempt for non-T14 and non-biglaw/clerkship track students. This is the general rule. The reality might be different for each individual as we have different standards of success.

Nah, calling people "fucking failures at life" and assuming they "probably would have killed themselves" are just shitty things to say regardless of a "LOLZ just joking guise" follow-up.

yeah that's a pretty weird and bad joke

[Lexaholik]

feel like a baby too because my siutation is relatively not that bad compared to other biglaw stories. had to work about 16 hours this weekend and was only up til 12 or 1 sat and sun night. no one yelling at me, no one saying i messed anything up. just kind of had a breakdown in the comfort of my office. "just don't see how it's gonna get better" was running through my head over and over. nothing really to add but feels good to vent and hope anyone reading this going through something similar knows they are not alone

Sorry to hear OP. As a Biglaw refugee, I totally sympathize.

To the extent you're staying at the job due to financial/debt/savings reasons, it might help to learn about personal finance on your own. Once you clear your debt and have a savings cushion, the work does get more tolerable because you have the freedom to quit at any moment. That doesn't make the job itself any better but it does let you feel more in control and autonomous--which may make you feel slightly better. And of course when things get really bad, you can walk away without any serious financial consequences. I usually recommend to my friends who are starting out to take full advantage of all law firm perks (car rides home, paid for meals) to cut down on living expenses so you can GTFO as soon as you find a better job. When I left Biglaw I was astounded by the number of associates who congratulated me and were genuinely happy for me that I got out of such a toxic environment.

[reasonable_man]

CLS, you're in the minority here.

Making fun of people who are not in a good state of mind is never ideal. Make jokes about other things.

Shoutout to people who get offended at jokes that are SOMEWHAT crude, but are CLEARLY meant to just be a playful jab. You, people, are the MVPs. You are the people who interject and say stuff like "Wait, why does it matter that he is black? Why'd you even mention skin color? Why do you have to bring race into it???" when someone says something like "yeah my doctor is a black guy like mid 40s".

With reasoning skills like this you may remain a CLS "hopeful" for the rest of your life.

[clshopeful]

CLS, you're in the minority here.

Making fun of people who are not in a good state of mind is never ideal. Make jokes about other things.

Shoutout to people who get offended at jokes that are SOMEWHAT crude, but are CLEARLY meant to just be a playful jab. You, people, are the MVPs. You are the people who interject and say stuff like "Wait, why does it matter that he is black? Why'd you even mention skin color? Why do you have to bring race into it???" when someone says something like "yeah my doctor is a black guy like mid 40s".

With reasoning skills like this you may remain a CLS "hopeful" for the rest of your life.

just SHUT dude, just be done already

[TheoO]

Shoutout to people who get offended at jokes that are SOMEWHAT crude, but are CLEARLY meant to just be a playful jab. You, people, are the MVPs. You are the people who interject and say stuff like "Wait, why does it matter that he is black? Why'd you even mention skin color? Why do you have to bring race into it???" when someone says something like "yeah my doctor is a black guy like mid 40s".

This can't be a real post.

[anon sequitur]

Love it when people make shitty responses to genuine requests for help and empathy, and then when someone inevitably calls them out for being shitty, they get all aggro about it, because they were just kidding around man, take it easy!

As for OP, I'm not in biglaw, never went after biglaw, not because I'm so altruistic that I wanted to make a difference, but because I personally could not handle it. Not enough respect for your humanity to make it worthwhile for me. That's not true for everyone, but I think there's nothing wrong with admitting that to yourself. There are other ways to pay off your loans. Even doing a shitty job for a year and transitioning into something else is a better option for some people.

[jimmythecatdied6]

The millennial is strong in this thread.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

feel like a baby too because my siutation is relatively not that bad compared to other biglaw stories. had to work about 16 hours this weekend and was only up til 12 or 1 sat and sun night. no one yelling at me, no one saying i messed anything up. just kind of had a breakdown in the comfort of my office. "just don't see how it's gonna get better" was running through my head over and over. nothing really to add but feels good to vent and hope anyone reading this going through something similar knows they are not alone

Sorry to hear OP. As a Biglaw refugee, I totally sympathize.

To the extent you're staying at the job due to financial/debt/savings reasons, it might help to learn about personal finance on your own. Once you clear your debt and have a savings cushion, the work does get more tolerable because you have the freedom to quit at any moment. That doesn't make the job itself any better but it does let you feel more in control and autonomous--which may make you feel slightly better. And of course when things get really bad, you can walk away without any serious financial consequences. I usually recommend to my friends who are starting out to take full advantage of all law firm perks (car rides home, paid for meals) to cut down on living expenses so you can GTFO as soon as you find a better job. When I left Biglaw I was astounded by the number of associates who congratulated me and were genuinely happy for me that I got out of such a toxic environment.

Yep biglaw without loans and with savings is wayyyy better than biglaw with debt....the psychological pressure is less.

that said, like one third of the people I know in biglaw never had any loans. Guess we're not all in the same boat.....

[Torts Illustrated]

The millennial is strong in this thread.

In the sense that this thread is full of people who took on enormous student loans, graduated into an abysmal job market, and now work absurd hours with little hope of professional advancement and an otherwise bleak economic future just so they can service those student loans? I totally agree.

[TheHill5]

The millennial is strong in this thread.

The douche is strong in jimmythecatdied6's post.

[Abbie Doobie]

The millennial is strong in this thread.

The douche is strong in jimmythecatdied6's post.

brave anon (ab)use

[Anonymous User]

The millennial is strong in this thread.

In the sense that this thread is full of people who took on enormous student loans, graduated into an abysmal job market, and now work absurd hours with little hope of professional advancement and an otherwise bleak economic future just so they can service those student loans? I totally agree.

I also started out practicing with over 265K in student loan debt (undergrad + law school).

The thing is, I knew exactly what I was getting myself into when I decided to take out the loans. I knew that big law had a terrible reputation and that the hours would be miserable, but I did it anyways. Now, after having made that decision, I live with it. I don't live with it by being insufferably negative and miserable - that only makes things worse. It makes you an awful person to be around, brings your team down, and is (IMO) a fairly common millennial attitude. I don't know what it is about our generation. It's like people think they are owed a great existence because they've paid for it.

[Tls2016]

The millennial is strong in this thread.

In the sense that this thread is full of people who took on enormous student loans, graduated into an abysmal job market, and now work absurd hours with little hope of professional advancement and an otherwise bleak economic future just so they can service those student loans? I totally agree.

I also started out practicing with over 265K in student loan debt (undergrad + law school).

The thing is, I knew exactly what I was getting myself into when I decided to take out the loans. I knew that big law had a terrible reputation and that the hours would be miserable, but I did it anyways. Now, after having made that decision, I live with it. I don't live with it by being insufferably negative and miserable - that only makes things worse. It makes you an awful person to be around, brings your team down, and is (IMO) a fairly common millennial attitude. I don't know what it is about our generation. It's like people think they are owed a great existence because they've paid for it.

Being in a bad emotional state doesn't make a person insufferably negative and miserable. Fatigue and stress can wear most people down.
Great that you are so stoic but not everyone is the same.

As for criticizing generations, boomers are even worse in their expectation of a great life they didn't pay for or earn or have to go into $265,000 of debt to get their foot in the door.

[zot1]

The millennial is strong in this thread.

In the sense that this thread is full of people who took on enormous student loans, graduated into an abysmal job market, and now work absurd hours with little hope of professional advancement and an otherwise bleak economic future just so they can service those student loans? I totally agree.

I also started out practicing with over 265K in student loan debt (undergrad + law school).

The thing is, I knew exactly what I was getting myself into when I decided to take out the loans. I knew that big law had a terrible reputation and that the hours would be miserable, but I did it anyways. Now, after having made that decision, I live with it. I don't live with it by being insufferably negative and miserable - that only makes things worse. It makes you an awful person to be around, brings your team down, and is (IMO) a fairly common millennial attitude. I don't know what it is about our generation. It's like people think they are owed a great existence because they've paid for it.

Being in a bad emotional state doesn't make a person insufferably negative and miserable. Fatigue and stress can wear most people down.
Great that you are so stoic but not everyone is the same.

As for criticizing generations, boomers are even worse in their expectation of a great life they didn't pay for or earn or have to go into $265,000 of debt to get their foot in the door.

The problem is not that we feel like we are entitled of something, but rather that previous generations were in a better situation and then they turned around to screw over this generation so they could make more money.

My FIL went to a top school yet he paid back his student loans with his first paycheck... From a medium-sized firm. He had the freedom to buy a house shortly after.

He didn't have to participate in extracurricular crap or do what most of us have done to get to law school and get a good job afterwards. He didn't have to overwork himself for a good outcome.

I'm not saying we somehow deserve better, but it is certainly silly to look at the economic situation and think, oh yeah that makes sense. If you can't see how much we have been screwed over, then you're not really paying attention.

[jimmythecatdied6]

I think you all are missing the part where we voluntarily agreed to get screwed.

I know that we are getting raked over the coals. My point is that... we agreed to it.

[zot1]

Jimmy, I don't think anyone agreed to make entry-level jobs require prior experience. I also didn't agree to make internships unpaid. Or that companies could offer so many part-time jobs so they don't have to pay benefits. Yeah, I don't remember agreeing to those things.

[jimmythecatdied6]

Yes - I am also annoyed with the state of the job market, but does that mean we should feel less responsibility for the loans that we voluntarily took? I thought we were discussing attitudes as they relate to our student loans. Maybe I am missing something?

[zot1]

You are missing the part where you were forced to take loans in order to obtain an education you desired because people before you made that choice for you. Yes, you decided to take that loan. But you wouldn't have had to take that loan if the previous generations hadn't predetermined that for you.

[reasonable_man]

How did we arrive at Millenial-hate?

[zot1]

The millennial is strong in this thread.