What is Big Law Bankruptcy Practice like? Forum

[Diplock1]

Do very junior to third-year associates have any ability to focus on the transactional / deal-making side of the practice and stay away from the litigation side? Obviously if things are crazy busy you're getting to get pulled away from what you might be most interested in, but I'm curious about your ability to stream yourself early on.

[Diplock1]

Do very junior to third-year associates have any ability to focus on the transactional / deal-making side of the practice and stay away from the litigation side? Obviously if things are crazy busy you're getting to get pulled away from what you might be most interested in, but I'm curious about your ability to stream yourself early on.

bump

[Anonymous User]

Do very junior to third-year associates have any ability to focus on the transactional / deal-making side of the practice and stay away from the litigation side? Obviously if things are crazy busy you're getting to get pulled away from what you might be most interested in, but I'm curious about your ability to stream yourself early on.

bump

Yes and no. First off, it depends what sort of firm you are at, how big their group is and what their practice focuses on. Second, doing bankruptcy and staying entirely away from litigation is a bit like going to a steakhouse and ordering the lobster - possible, but you're missing the point. Finally, you're going to have to be assertive to make your views known, and even if you do, if the partner wants you to do some lit, you're going to be doing some lit.

I wouldn't do it. I only do 20% lit or so, and as a third year that was almost 0%, but as I became more senior it's been a natural fit to be lent to litigation partners from time to time as their senior "bankruptcy" guy on a bankruptcy lit matter to consult with when drafting lit papers, even if I never do doc review and very rarely help prepare for depos.

[Anonymous User]

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[peter2009]

Do very junior to third-year associates have any ability to focus on the transactional / deal-making side of the practice and stay away from the litigation side? Obviously if things are crazy busy you're getting to get pulled away from what you might be most interested in, but I'm curious about your ability to stream yourself early on.

bump

Yes and no. First off, it depends what sort of firm you are at, how big their group is and what their practice focuses on. Second, doing bankruptcy and staying entirely away from litigation is a bit like going to a steakhouse and ordering the lobster - possible, but you're missing the point. Finally, you're going to have to be assertive to make your views known, and even if you do, if the partner wants you to do some lit, you're going to be doing some lit.

I wouldn't do it. I only do 20% lit or so, and as a third year that was almost 0%, but as I became more senior it's been a natural fit to be lent to litigation partners from time to time as their senior "bankruptcy" guy on a bankruptcy lit matter to consult with when drafting lit papers, even if I never do doc review and very rarely help prepare for depos.

Entirely depends on the firm. Some firms' bankruptcy practices are more finance based, so you wouldn't do much litigation at those firms. But if you want to do debtor cases, which tends to be the most interesting work, there will likely be some litigation.

There is also a lot of motion practice that is not full fledged litigation but is a necessary part of the practice, and you would be hard pressed to avoid that entirely.

[Diplock1]

Do very junior to third-year associates have any ability to focus on the transactional / deal-making side of the practice and stay away from the litigation side? Obviously if things are crazy busy you're getting to get pulled away from what you might be most interested in, but I'm curious about your ability to stream yourself early on.

bump

Yes and no. First off, it depends what sort of firm you are at, how big their group is and what their practice focuses on. Second, doing bankruptcy and staying entirely away from litigation is a bit like going to a steakhouse and ordering the lobster - possible, but you're missing the point. Finally, you're going to have to be assertive to make your views known, and even if you do, if the partner wants you to do some lit, you're going to be doing some lit.

I wouldn't do it. I only do 20% lit or so, and as a third year that was almost 0%, but as I became more senior it's been a natural fit to be lent to litigation partners from time to time as their senior "bankruptcy" guy on a bankruptcy lit matter to consult with when drafting lit papers, even if I never do doc review and very rarely help prepare for depos.

Entirely depends on the firm. Some firms' bankruptcy practices are more finance based, so you wouldn't do much litigation at those firms. But if you want to do debtor cases, which tends to be the most interesting work, there will likely be some litigation.

There is also a lot of motion practice that is not full fledged litigation but is a necessary part of the practice, and you would be hard pressed to avoid that entirely.

Thanks a lot to both of you, very helpful.

Peter2009 - which of the big NY firms' bankruptcy practices would be considered more finance based?

[peter2009]

Do very junior to third-year associates have any ability to focus on the transactional / deal-making side of the practice and stay away from the litigation side? Obviously if things are crazy busy you're getting to get pulled away from what you might be most interested in, but I'm curious about your ability to stream yourself early on.

bump

Yes and no. First off, it depends what sort of firm you are at, how big their group is and what their practice focuses on. Second, doing bankruptcy and staying entirely away from litigation is a bit like going to a steakhouse and ordering the lobster - possible, but you're missing the point. Finally, you're going to have to be assertive to make your views known, and even if you do, if the partner wants you to do some lit, you're going to be doing some lit.

I wouldn't do it. I only do 20% lit or so, and as a third year that was almost 0%, but as I became more senior it's been a natural fit to be lent to litigation partners from time to time as their senior "bankruptcy" guy on a bankruptcy lit matter to consult with when drafting lit papers, even if I never do doc review and very rarely help prepare for depos.

Entirely depends on the firm. Some firms' bankruptcy practices are more finance based, so you wouldn't do much litigation at those firms. But if you want to do debtor cases, which tends to be the most interesting work, there will likely be some litigation.

There is also a lot of motion practice that is not full fledged litigation but is a necessary part of the practice, and you would be hard pressed to avoid that entirely.

Thanks a lot to both of you, very helpful.

Peter2009 - which of the big NY firms' bankruptcy practices would be considered more finance based?

Davis Polk, Simpson Thacher, Wachtell, and Willkie (to a lesser extent)

[Diplock1]

Thanks a lot to both of you, very helpful.

Peter2009 - which of the big NY firms' bankruptcy practices would be considered more finance based?

Davis Polk, Simpson Thacher, Wachtell, and Willkie (to a lesser extent)

Perfect. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have experience with DE firms and their bk practice? Or is it largely the same as mentioned?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have experience with DE firms and their bk practice? Or is it largely the same as mentioned?

DE firms seem to be a whole different experience...mainly because the majority (even tho they won't tell you this) of DE firm's work is local counsel. To work on the significant cases in DE you probably need to be at Skadden, Pachulski, MNAT, YCST, or RLF. You will see other firms in on cases, but generally not in any significant role, maybe some post-confirmation litigation trust work or pure local counsel.

Skadden is Skadden, Pachulski is Pachulski, MNAT does a wide range of work (i've seen more creditor side), YCST and RLF are primarily debtor side (YCST i've seen do some creditor side). That being said, the more important question is how much of that work is real co-counsel and how much is local counsel. Best answer to that probably comes from NY restructuring attorneys who can tell you what roles the DE firms actually play in their DE cases.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming first year with a lot of free time on my hands. Any good book recommendations? It's been hard to find any decent recs since google turns up a bunch of ads for bankruptcy attorneys.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming first year with a lot of free time on my hands. Any good book recommendations? It's been hard to find any decent recs since google turns up a bunch of ads for bankruptcy attorneys.

DO associates that burn out of top bankruptcy debtor practices after a year or two have a decent time finding spots doing general litigation or general Corp since it seems that juniors are mostly doing litigation and corp work anyways with motions and hearings?

[Anonymous User]

yes. I know few junior bk guys who pulled this off and moved into more finance type pracitces. it's also easier if you are part of some rotation system at your firm so you can tell intervewers you were more of a generalist. depending on the practice you could get some good experience doing DIPS (debtor in possession financing) and market yourself as a finance lawyer.

[Anonymous User]

yes. I know few junior bk guys who pulled this off and moved into more finance type pracitces. it's also easier if you are part of some rotation system at your firm so you can tell intervewers you were more of a generalist. depending on the practice you could get some good experience doing DIPS (debtor in possession financing) and market yourself as a finance lawyer.

[Anonymous User]

yes. I know few junior bk guys who pulled this off and moved into more finance type pracitces. it's also easier if you are part of some rotation system at your firm so you can tell intervewers you were more of a generalist. depending on the practice you could get some good experience doing DIPS (debtor in possession financing) and market yourself as a finance lawyer.

Honestly my goal is to get into some type of commercial litigation. Am I just out of luck if I am starting in bankruptcy or do I have a better shot than if I was starting in corporate. I am going to a large debtor shop (Kirk/Weil) and I thought that since bk was at least some lit I'd be morearkrtable in a year to lit groups than if I was corporate or is my only way really through a clerkshil

[Anonymous User]

I know a junior associate there that has been averaging about 280 billable hours the past few months. With, the way oil & gas is looking and the amount of cases they are running lead debtor's counsel, it does not look like that will change any time soon.

That seems insane. is Bankruptcy an area where you can sit and work for 10 hours and bill 10 hours? or is it more inefficient than that?

Also, just a bump to question about specific exit options especially going to law firms in more secondary/tertiary markets like detroit, atlanta, cleveland

Summered at Kirkland NY and talked with a number of bankruptcy associates. It is more of an area where you can efficiently bill than corporate because you can do research and you do go to court so there's some predictability built in, but when crap hits the fan, it's all hands on deck so those times can be intense. I think one of the pluses is that there's really no face time demands. On Fridays, many associates just work from home especially if they have families and this is absolutely okay. It gets pretty quiet on the Bankruptcy floor since many associates choose to do this. They are aggressively hiring because it's been booming like crazy, especially the Houston office with oil and gas. I would go look at that thread if you were interested in Bankruptcy in Houston, and it also gives a little insight into general bankruptcy practice as well. But if you work at Kirkland, you will never not meet your hours but it is not as bad as people think it is. Also you do get compensated really well. I think this year they got two bonuses.