What's going on in Texas? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I own a house (probably would rent it out if I moved to avoid selling in this market), etc.

Is the Houston market down? My house in (suburban) Dallas has gone up $100k in value in the last 2 years.

Keeping with the theme of the thread, I have been slow since January and most junior associates are slow as well.

I'm in Houston, junior associate, and most juniors at my office are crushed. People are saying that experience young is important, you definitely get more exp. young here than in NY. Also, because of the market, the deals are unique and complicated (from what I am hearing). I am guessing things will stay busy for corporate folks. Companies are going to be selling/restructuring/etc.

[Anonymous User]

All of the juniors talking about leaving houston need to chill. Not a single firm in Houston has starting laying people off, so give it a while. These firms aren't going to just start slashing junior associates out of nowhere--you will see it coming and some of the second tier shops will start laying people off before one of the big 3 (or whatever) does.

Congratulations - the omen has arrived. Stay tuned, folks.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p9174830

[Anonymous User]

I really think TX associates should prepare..not panic, but prepare and search for work elsewhere. The problem here is the long term stability of the energy industry in the US. The saudis are determined in eliminating most of the US oil industry.

[Johann]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

[Anonymous User]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

[Johann]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in Houston, junior associate, and most juniors at my office are crushed. People are saying that experience young is important, you definitely get more exp. young here than in NY. Also, because of the market, the deals are unique and complicated (from what I am hearing). I am guessing things will stay busy for corporate folks. Companies are going to be selling/restructuring/etc.

Corporate has some lag time before it feels market effects, though, right?

[totesTheGoat]

Sorry, accidental anon

[Anonymous User]

"Saudi Arabia’s oil minister threw down the gauntlet at IHS CERAWeek by ruling out production cuts and challenging many of those very same leaders in Houston to “lower costs, borrow money or liquidate.” And with a wave of bankruptcies already ravaging the U.S. shale industry, Hess Chief Executive Officer John Hess warned “contagion” in the high-yield debt market is spreading to investment-grade producers as financing dries up."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... llion-debt

[Pneumonia]

tag

[Anonymous User]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

I doubt that there are stealth layoffs at VE at this point. Not that it cannot happen, but this type of thing will hit the lower tier corporate groups first I would imagine. Also, it seems like K&E and Latham are still hiring. Honestly, if you are at VE/BB/Latham and get laid off (lets hope that is not happening), you will be able to find a spot somewhere else. It may not be Houston, but I have heard that Dallas has not been hit as hard (less dependent on oil). Those are the 3 top corporate shops in the state...you'll be able to move around.

[Johann]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

I doubt that there are stealth layoffs at VE at this point. Not that it cannot happen, but this type of thing will hit the lower tier corporate groups first I would imagine. Also, it seems like K&E and Latham are still hiring. Honestly, if you are at VE/BB/Latham and get laid off (lets hope that is not happening), you will be able to find a spot somewhere else. It may not be Houston, but I have heard that Dallas has not been hit as hard (less dependent on oil). Those are the 3 top corporate shops in the state...you'll be able to move around.

You are wrong. They just stealthed a partner with 15 years of the experience you talk about at a shop you talk about and guess what - no job. The day they did that, they probably told about 5 associates who did work for him that they don't need them. It wouldn't hit corporate first either. THe oil industry is dead. The ATL article actually says people with the exact experience you are talking abotu are having trouble lateraling. Just because you have your eyes closed doesnt mean people arent being dickfucked right now and its rude as fuck when someone just posted a thread about losing his job to be this naive and insensitive.

[Abbie Doobie]

leaving your job for another firm, getting cold feet and asking for your job back at your previous firm, and then the firm saying no is not being stealthed. its called being an idiot.

[Anonymous User]

leaving your job for another firm, getting cold feet and asking for your job back at your previous firm, and then the firm saying no is not being stealthed. its called being an idiot.

I think the partner who got "stealthed" didn't get cold feet but was rejected at STB when he showed up alone (i.e. without the partner with the bigger book of business than him). He then went back to VE and they rejected him as well.

[Anonymous User]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

I doubt that there are stealth layoffs at VE at this point. Not that it cannot happen, but this type of thing will hit the lower tier corporate groups first I would imagine. Also, it seems like K&E and Latham are still hiring. Honestly, if you are at VE/BB/Latham and get laid off (lets hope that is not happening), you will be able to find a spot somewhere else. It may not be Houston, but I have heard that Dallas has not been hit as hard (less dependent on oil). Those are the 3 top corporate shops in the state...you'll be able to move around.

You are wrong. They just stealthed a partner with 15 years of the experience you talk about at a shop you talk about and guess what - no job. The day they did that, they probably told about 5 associates who did work for him that they don't need them. It wouldn't hit corporate first either. THe oil industry is dead. The ATL article actually says people with the exact experience you are talking abotu are having trouble lateraling. Just because you have your eyes closed doesnt mean people arent being dickfucked right now and its rude as fuck when someone just posted a thread about losing his job to be this naive and insensitive.

This person obviously doesn't work in Houston (or Texas for that matter). Also, the ATL article does not say one person from a Big 3/Latham is having trouble lateraling (it mentions it could be difficult for capital markets attorneys in Houston, but then if you look at the comments it is rebutted by people saying they are still receiving signing bonus offers from KE to lateral). Don't banter bad news if you don't have actual insight other than an ATL article.

Also, I agree with the above, there was nothing "stealth" about what happened with the two partners.

[Johann]

leaving your job for another firm, getting cold feet and asking for your job back at your previous firm, and then the firm saying no is not being stealthed. its called being an idiot.

thats not what happened. try reading it again. 2 partners decided to leave VE in tandem for STB. partner A got cold feet and VE took him back. STB didn't want partner B by himself. rescinded the offer. VE didnt take partner B back when he asked for his job. partner B was stealthed and so are his associates.

[Johann]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

I doubt that there are stealth layoffs at VE at this point. Not that it cannot happen, but this type of thing will hit the lower tier corporate groups first I would imagine. Also, it seems like K&E and Latham are still hiring. Honestly, if you are at VE/BB/Latham and get laid off (lets hope that is not happening), you will be able to find a spot somewhere else. It may not be Houston, but I have heard that Dallas has not been hit as hard (less dependent on oil). Those are the 3 top corporate shops in the state...you'll be able to move around.

You are wrong. They just stealthed a partner with 15 years of the experience you talk about at a shop you talk about and guess what - no job. The day they did that, they probably told about 5 associates who did work for him that they don't need them. It wouldn't hit corporate first either. THe oil industry is dead. The ATL article actually says people with the exact experience you are talking abotu are having trouble lateraling. Just because you have your eyes closed doesnt mean people arent being dickfucked right now and its rude as fuck when someone just posted a thread about losing his job to be this naive and insensitive.

This person obviously doesn't work in Houston (or Texas for that matter). Also, the ATL article does not say one person from a Big 3/Latham is having trouble lateraling (it mentions it could be difficult for capital markets attorneys in Houston, but then if you look at the comments it is rebutted by people saying they are still receiving signing bonus offers from KE to lateral). Don't banter bad news if you don't have actual insight other than an ATL article.

Also, I agree with the above, there was nothing "stealth" about what happened with the two partners.

the poster on this board does work in houston in oil and gas he already said. the article also asays VE associates (multiple) have had problems lateralling out of the energy market because of energy niche market. you guys cant ready that well. its telling that youre all anonymous because you are all 2Ls or 1Ls who dont know what the fuck you are talking about when im texting my buddy inhouse at a oil and gas company and he is saying they have over 50 applications unsolicited in the past 30 days from just the big 3 alone.

[Anonymous User]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

I doubt that there are stealth layoffs at VE at this point. Not that it cannot happen, but this type of thing will hit the lower tier corporate groups first I would imagine. Also, it seems like K&E and Latham are still hiring. Honestly, if you are at VE/BB/Latham and get laid off (lets hope that is not happening), you will be able to find a spot somewhere else. It may not be Houston, but I have heard that Dallas has not been hit as hard (less dependent on oil). Those are the 3 top corporate shops in the state...you'll be able to move around.

You are wrong. They just stealthed a partner with 15 years of the experience you talk about at a shop you talk about and guess what - no job. The day they did that, they probably told about 5 associates who did work for him that they don't need them. It wouldn't hit corporate first either. THe oil industry is dead. The ATL article actually says people with the exact experience you are talking abotu are having trouble lateraling. Just because you have your eyes closed doesnt mean people arent being dickfucked right now and its rude as fuck when someone just posted a thread about losing his job to be this naive and insensitive.

This person obviously doesn't work in Houston (or Texas for that matter). Also, the ATL article does not say one person from a Big 3/Latham is having trouble lateraling (it mentions it could be difficult for capital markets attorneys in Houston, but then if you look at the comments it is rebutted by people saying they are still receiving signing bonus offers from KE to lateral). Don't banter bad news if you don't have actual insight other than an ATL article.

Also, I agree with the above, there was nothing "stealth" about what happened with the two partners.

the poster on this board does work in houston in oil and gas he already said. the article also asays VE associates (multiple) have had problems lateralling out of the energy market because of energy niche market. you guys cant ready that well. its telling that youre all anonymous because you are all 2Ls or 1Ls who dont know what the fuck you are talking about when im texting my buddy inhouse at a oil and gas company and he is saying they have over 50 applications unsolicited in the past 30 days from just the big 3 alone.

In addition, as mentioned above, we have already confirmed that they are laying off people at some shops (lower tiered or not) specifically due to the energy situation. It's not a matter of whether it is happening at this point, it is "to what extent", and the answer is probabilistically "to a significant extent".

[Tls2016]

I think there is always a lot of denial about stealth layoffs. The thread linked above the poster said several of them were laid off. It just doesn't make the news because firms don't want clients to see them having issues.

It is difficult to prepare for as well. You can't just leave a firm you like because you might get stealthed because you could be the first one out at the new firm. And you could be the associate that stays. Even in the crash a few people squeaked by the rounds of layoffs.

Just keep your eyes open and don't be in denial that it could happen to you.

I hope all the laid off associates find work somewhere.

[Anonymous User]

yeah above the law basically confirmed stealth layoffs are starting now: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/02/a-latera ... -in-texas/

texas is a mess. energy is a mess. just a matter of time before entire groups go under.

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

I doubt that there are stealth layoffs at VE at this point. Not that it cannot happen, but this type of thing will hit the lower tier corporate groups first I would imagine. Also, it seems like K&E and Latham are still hiring. Honestly, if you are at VE/BB/Latham and get laid off (lets hope that is not happening), you will be able to find a spot somewhere else. It may not be Houston, but I have heard that Dallas has not been hit as hard (less dependent on oil). Those are the 3 top corporate shops in the state...you'll be able to move around.

You are wrong. They just stealthed a partner with 15 years of the experience you talk about at a shop you talk about and guess what - no job. The day they did that, they probably told about 5 associates who did work for him that they don't need them. It wouldn't hit corporate first either. THe oil industry is dead. The ATL article actually says people with the exact experience you are talking abotu are having trouble lateraling. Just because you have your eyes closed doesnt mean people arent being dickfucked right now and its rude as fuck when someone just posted a thread about losing his job to be this naive and insensitive.

This person obviously doesn't work in Houston (or Texas for that matter). Also, the ATL article does not say one person from a Big 3/Latham is having trouble lateraling (it mentions it could be difficult for capital markets attorneys in Houston, but then if you look at the comments it is rebutted by people saying they are still receiving signing bonus offers from KE to lateral). Don't banter bad news if you don't have actual insight other than an ATL article.

Also, I agree with the above, there was nothing "stealth" about what happened with the two partners.

the poster on this board does work in houston in oil and gas he already said. the article also asays VE associates (multiple) have had problems lateralling out of the energy market because of energy niche market. you guys cant ready that well. its telling that youre all anonymous because you are all 2Ls or 1Ls who dont know what the fuck you are talking about when im texting my buddy inhouse at a oil and gas company and he is saying they have over 50 applications unsolicited in the past 30 days from just the big 3 alone.

I was talking about you, Johann. You obviously don't know this market, so I don't get why you are here? Just to cause fear? I don't get it. It is not helpful to come in and talk dooms day based on one ATL article. And yes, I am an associate in Houston biglaw.

[favabeansoup]

I really think some of you guys are being a little too apocalyptic. Yes, we have a poster in other thread who got laid off, and he said there was a few others as well. The above the law article is not about stealth layoffs, it's about a recruiting thing gone wrong. If you can't see the difference than read it a little closer, doesn't say anything about associates actually having trouble. Maybe your idea of "stealth" layoff is clearly different from the rest of ours.

We also have a lot of posters saying they work in Texas energy and while work has slowed, there are no hints of layoffs going on (love when the retort is "well obviously you don't know about them b/c they are stealth". Those people have a far better understanding working in the office than someone on this forum does).

Overall market is bad for energy right now, Houston is going to get hit bad. Some layoffs, especially at lower tier firms, are clearly understandable. Most people can do is keep resumes up to date and just be prepared.

"Oil Industry is dead". Dude, seriously? American oil is being squeezed right now yeah, but it is in no way dead or even close to dying. There's a political fight happening. If American oil was "dead" we should be really afraid for a lot more than just the Texas legal market.

"50 applications unsolicited in the past 30 days from just the big 3 alone". Is this substantially different than what an inhouse O&G company normally gets within 30 days? I have a good friend in house too (not oil and gas) and he gets a crap load of emails/networking invites every month too from biglaw associates looking to get out. Sure, it may be more than normal given state of market, but you are being a little too fire and brimestone here without any first-hand experience regarding the industry yourself here JohannDeMann.

[Johann]

There are no stealth layoffs of associates at V&E in Houston...at least not yet.

yeah there are. you might not be privy to them but they are there. a partner just got stealthed you naive idiot. update your resume this weekend, your welcome.

I doubt that there are stealth layoffs at VE at this point. Not that it cannot happen, but this type of thing will hit the lower tier corporate groups first I would imagine. Also, it seems like K&E and Latham are still hiring. Honestly, if you are at VE/BB/Latham and get laid off (lets hope that is not happening), you will be able to find a spot somewhere else. It may not be Houston, but I have heard that Dallas has not been hit as hard (less dependent on oil). Those are the 3 top corporate shops in the state...you'll be able to move around.

You are wrong. They just stealthed a partner with 15 years of the experience you talk about at a shop you talk about and guess what - no job. The day they did that, they probably told about 5 associates who did work for him that they don't need them. It wouldn't hit corporate first either. THe oil industry is dead. The ATL article actually says people with the exact experience you are talking abotu are having trouble lateraling. Just because you have your eyes closed doesnt mean people arent being dickfucked right now and its rude as fuck when someone just posted a thread about losing his job to be this naive and insensitive.

This person obviously doesn't work in Houston (or Texas for that matter). Also, the ATL article does not say one person from a Big 3/Latham is having trouble lateraling (it mentions it could be difficult for capital markets attorneys in Houston, but then if you look at the comments it is rebutted by people saying they are still receiving signing bonus offers from KE to lateral). Don't banter bad news if you don't have actual insight other than an ATL article.

Also, I agree with the above, there was nothing "stealth" about what happened with the two partners.

the poster on this board does work in houston in oil and gas he already said. the article also asays VE associates (multiple) have had problems lateralling out of the energy market because of energy niche market. you guys cant ready that well. its telling that youre all anonymous because you are all 2Ls or 1Ls who dont know what the fuck you are talking about when im texting my buddy inhouse at a oil and gas company and he is saying they have over 50 applications unsolicited in the past 30 days from just the big 3 alone.

I was talking about you, Johann. You obviously don't know this market, so I don't get why you are here? Just to cause fear? I don't get it. It is not helpful to come in and talk dooms day based on one ATL article. And yes, I am an associate in Houston biglaw.

I do know the market well enough to know its fucked right now. I'm not dooming and glooming for the sake of it. I'm letting people know that right now I would not take a job in oil and gas if I had another offer, would probably take a little pay cut if it demanded for the job security in competing offers (ie NYC or west coast work), and would have an updated polished resume being fired out if I was an associate. This is just prudent in times like these. I have no horse in the race since my work does not depend on this. But I'm not speculating out of my ass. I contributed to this thread a month ago. I have connections in the market in the industry, and I sort of have some overlap with the industry where I hear about it but again I'm not dependent on it. I'm merely trying to give socially inept people who don't understand business a nudge to not tie the rest of their career and livelihood to a sinking ship like oil. Don't run around the office with your head cut off, don't tell other people shit; but keep firing out apps and seeing what else is out there. And if you get an Competitive offer, you should absolutely leave the industry. That's all I'm saying.

[Johann]

I also said just one page ago you're talking about 5% chance. Problem is it's a 5% risk on an entire career.

[TheoO]

Taking the 95% as true. Is there any career that offers a better percentage change of survival? Admittedly, the debt load changes the risk-taking dynamic quite a bit, but I still think 95% would be a fantastic percentage.

[Johann]

Taking the 95% as true. Is there any career that offers a better percentage change of survival? Admittedly, the debt load changes the risk-taking dynamic quite a bit, but I still think 95% would be a fantastic percentage.

Governments can't fire without cause. Nurses are always in demand. Doctors are always in demand. Actuaries are always in demand. Universities try not to fire and if they do, they usually offer big buyouts.

This is the concern, you get 2 years of experience in O&G or a similar niche market and the entire industry goes belly-up. No one is hiring for O&G. Maybe you rebound and get a general corporate job. But there's also a chance you never rebound without transferable skills and go do doc review. That's what happened in 2008 to T14 grads. There was a section 1031 corporate niche booming in 2004-2008 letting people trade property and diversify without paying tax. Really risky shit that had to be done in a very short window of time. Booming industry during the real estate haydays, completely died in 2008 and never came back. A 4th year who exclusively had that type of experience couldnt get a job because no other law firms were hiring at the time (not the case today for O&G people). No small firms want you because you dont have relevant skills and are a risk to leave and no big firms want you. Turn to doc review. 4 years of bouncing around when the economy recovers at 2012 and the firms of course hire the 25 year old new JD that's cheaper and less jaded. A lot of the market is timing luck.

Obvi, the entire O&G market isnt going to die. But it's down numbers that exceed the S&P crash in 2008 (80% crash vs 50% crash respectively). Lots of O&G structures are unique because of the limited partnership structure emphasis to take advantage of tax breaks rather than a typical corporate structure of corporate subs. In most industries if you get laid off, your skills are transferable. Law is highly specialized, so thats not the case. It's one of the few professions (especiialy when you factor in education attainment) to where you can go from 4 years of making $200k and not make $50k any of the next 10 years due to solely market forces.

I've pumped up law plenty on this site and gone against the grain to say law can be a worthwhile investment. I'm not a doom and gloom guy. I just want people to have their heads on a swivel.

TL;DR A partner with 15 years of experience in O&G at the best O&G Texas firm was going to a V10 market leader. The deal fell through to no fault/action of his own, and he's currently unemployed. That guy should be able to get a job in a day. But he can't. If that doesn't have you shitting your pants a little, you aren't good at risk assessment.