DF Thread Forum

[Cogburn87]

You're right. It's a great profession. I hope my kids grow up to be lawyers.

[zot1]

I like being a lawyer but I also work for government.

[Desert Fox]

[anonnymouse]

Not literal janitors.

Custodians possess licenses needed to operate and maintain a school building, including credentials for boilers, heating/air conditioning and fire sprinklers and alarms.

They're custodians, not janitors, and much closer to engineers than the guy with the mop.

Also, the city isn't hiring new ones, so how is this any different than the SPS legal profession? Spend your post graduate years accumulating certs and debt just so you can get NOJERB'd. The problem isn't being a lawyer, it's ITE.

[chalky]

Post removed...

[FSK]

Bears fan--you little cunt--come back when you've worked a single day as a lawyer.

TLS FIGHT

[krads153]

I know 5 teachers right now (including one of my best friends and my sister). All make less than 55k. Some make 45ish. Market: LA and other SoCal cities. Probably depends on the school and subject. I heard math and science make more and people with such degrees can land better schools to teach at.

Teachers in flyover where I grew up start at around 50k (cheap COL though) and max out at like 110k. I think NYC starts out at around 55-60k...kind of really, really low for an expensive city, because that's what flyover places pay.

It's kind of insane though - you only work 9 months out of the year, so 50k is pretty legit. Plus a lot tutor on the side, and that's easy money.

[emkay625]

I know 5 teachers right now (including one of my best friends and my sister). All make less than 55k. Some make 45ish. Market: LA and other SoCal cities. Probably depends on the school and subject. I heard math and science make more and people with such degrees can land better schools to teach at.

Teachers in flyover where I grew up start at around 50k (cheap COL though) and max out at like 110k. I think NYC starts out at around 55-60k...kind of really, really low for an expensive city, because that's what flyover places pay.

It's kind of insane though - you only work 9 months out of the year, so 50k is pretty legit. Plus a lot tutor on the side, and that's easy money.

Where?

Sincerely,
the spouse of a teacher who would love to move wherever this is. (We live in a major city and you start at 50K but the max, even with a Ph.D, is 64K).

[chalky]

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[Johann]

I know 5 teachers right now (including one of my best friends and my sister). All make less than 55k. Some make 45ish. Market: LA and other SoCal cities. Probably depends on the school and subject. I heard math and science make more and people with such degrees can land better schools to teach at.

Teachers in flyover where I grew up start at around 50k (cheap COL though) and max out at like 110k. I think NYC starts out at around 55-60k...kind of really, really low for an expensive city, because that's what flyover places pay.

It's kind of insane though - you only work 9 months out of the year, so 50k is pretty legit. Plus a lot tutor on the side, and that's easy money.

Where?

Sincerely,
the spouse of a teacher who would love to move wherever this is. (We live in a major city and you start at 50K but the max, even with a Ph.D, is 64K).

theres no way to know what the max is because of raises and budgets and all that. i would bet you in 15 years if your spouse sticks with it they are over 64k. if im wrong, ill pay you 5k, if im right, you pay me the difference between spouse salary and 64k. pretty good hedge bet by you.

[180kickflip]

I know 5 teachers right now (including one of my best friends and my sister). All make less than 55k. Some make 45ish. Market: LA and other SoCal cities. Probably depends on the school and subject. I heard math and science make more and people with such degrees can land better schools to teach at.

Teachers in flyover where I grew up start at around 50k (cheap COL though) and max out at like 110k. I think NYC starts out at around 55-60k...kind of really, really low for an expensive city, because that's what flyover places pay.

It's kind of insane though - you only work 9 months out of the year, so 50k is pretty legit. Plus a lot tutor on the side, and that's easy money.

Where?

Sincerely,
the spouse of a teacher who would love to move wherever this is. (We live in a major city and you start at 50K but the max, even with a Ph.D, is 64K).

What big city maxes at 64? =( That's pretty low. I know boston, NY, LA, D.C., maybe CHI, and Detroit all start in the 50s and max over 6 figures (Detroit may not max that high, but considering COL, the pay is great).

[A. Nony Mouse]

Teachers who are just teachers, or teachers who are also administrators?

[JCougar]

I've calculated this before, but, assuming you work 60 hours a week as a first-year Biglaw associate in a $160K city, you make the equivalent of $44/hour.

52(40x+(20*1.5x))=160000

That is, 52 weeks, 40 hours of regular time, 20 hours of overtime.

Doesn't sound too bad at first...

But with the following caveats:
1) 60 hours per week may be an optimistic assumption
2) this calculation does not factor in the crippling school debt of a JD, which, if you want to pay it off before you get bounced out of your Biglaw job, you have to commit to paying about 50% of your after-tax salary to school debt
3) you only get $160K in very high COL areas, otherwise, Biglaw pays less. Sometimes not even six figures if it's a mid-sized city. I think Indianapolis is like $90K.
4) Biglaw is a pyramid scheme, and whatever landing options you get are likely to pay significantly less. A good chunk of associates are gone by year 2, and up to 70% or so are gone by year 5, depending on the market. If you think Biglaw assures you of a great post-Biglaw easy gig that gives you like $75K or something, you're dead wrong. About half of the attorneys on my last doc review project worked for Biglaw at some point in their careers.
5) This doesn't factor in the well-known toxic, stress-riddled work culture of Biglaw.

It's impossible to exaggerate how bad of a career choice law is.

[JCougar]

Oh, I also forgot to even mention the most obvious caveat: $160K is the best case scenario, and about 85% of law grads never have a chance at a salary even 50% as high.

[chalky]

Post removed...

[krads153]

I know 5 teachers right now (including one of my best friends and my sister). All make less than 55k. Some make 45ish. Market: LA and other SoCal cities. Probably depends on the school and subject. I heard math and science make more and people with such degrees can land better schools to teach at.

Teachers in flyover where I grew up start at around 50k (cheap COL though) and max out at like 110k. I think NYC starts out at around 55-60k...kind of really, really low for an expensive city, because that's what flyover places pay.

It's kind of insane though - you only work 9 months out of the year, so 50k is pretty legit. Plus a lot tutor on the side, and that's easy money.

Where?

Sincerely,
the spouse of a teacher who would love to move wherever this is. (We live in a major city and you start at 50K but the max, even with a Ph.D, is 64K).

What big city maxes at 64? =( That's pretty low. I know boston, NY, LA, D.C., maybe CHI, and Detroit all start in the 50s and max over 6 figures (Detroit may not max that high, but considering COL, the pay is great).

Yeah, that sounds about right.

I'm not going to specify where re: my post above (except it's cheap flyover, a mid-sized metro area, not major city). The data is all online since these are public schools. Teachers teaching for 20+ years are earning over 100k. Maxing out at 64k seems ridiculously low - teachers in NYC start out at upper 50ks/60k. There's also pensions in a lot of these cities.

I think teaching in a non-major city might be the way to go though. COL is like 1/5th of what it is in places like NYC, but you get similar starting pay and similar benefits. ANd based on what I know with friends who teach in places like NYC versus flyover, the competition and demands seem less rigorous in flyover for public schools.

Teaching is a great gig. You get 3 months off, and pretty good benefits. If you live in cheap flyover, you can have a pretty good QOL.

Plus you can tutor on the side, given the free time you have. My spouse tutored some kid once a week and got an extra 400 bucks a month...so that's like an extra 4800 a year in cash just for one kid.

[JCougar]

BigFed >>> BigLaw

Yeah, except there's barely any positions in BigFed open anymore. And there may never be in the near future with the current politicization of the federal budget.

[star fox]

Seems like comparing the top X% of Teachers/Janitors/Whomever to all Lawyers is pretty disingenuous.

[ManoftheHour]

Where?

Sincerely,
the spouse of a teacher who would love to move wherever this is. (We live in a major city and you start at 50K but the max, even with a Ph.D, is 64K).

Yeah, I feel like the #s are all over the place. I'm not doubting the numbers being thrown around. It's just such a wide range. In my home city (big city), this sounds about right. The charter schools sound like hell. One of my best friends worked at 3 before. High turnover rate, lots of hours, and shit pay. BUT, he does get 3 months vacation. That can't be understated.

[lacrossebrother]

I like johann's first post. This shouldn't be about whether to become a janitor. It should be a reminder to dickwad democrats that taxing $160k lawyers with $250k debt and talking about them like they're assholes, while applauding "Main Street" people like janitors, is dumb.

[sinfiery]

I like johann's first post. This shouldn't be about whether to become a janitor. It should be a reminder to dickwad democrats that taxing $160k lawyers with $250k debt and talking about them like they're assholes, while applauding "Main Street" people like janitors, is dumb.

are you hinting republicans are more likely to reduce taxes by offsetting income by current student loan debt? (especially from graduate school?) lol.

[180kickflip]

Teachers who are just teachers, or teachers who are also administrators?

I'm talking about public school teachers who are just teachers and do no additional work beyond their normal 180ish days/yr contract.

In terms of how long it takes to get max...In boston public, teachers hit max salary around year 10 with bonuses along the way. That's all BPS teachers. I bet a lot of the major cities have a similar timeline.

Plus, these definitely aren't the top x% teacher salaries. These are just the normal contract minimum pay levels in major cities. The top earning teachers do additional work in their schools for stipends, tutor outside of school, and/or get performance bonuses.

[Danger Zone]

Think it's fairly safe to say johann is pulling most of these numbers out of his ass. It takes probably ten years of service as a NYC teacher to make over 75k: http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/271 ... rected.pdf

And most people gtfo of teaching in the city before they're even tenured because it's a shitty job with long hours and a miserable work environment (sound familiar?).

[krads153]

Think it's fairly safe to say johann is pulling most of these numbers out of his ass. It takes probably ten years of service as a NYC teacher to make over 75k: http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/271 ... rected.pdf

And most people gtfo of teaching in the city before they're even tenured because it's a shitty job with long hours and a miserable work environment (sound familiar?).

Teaching in NYC honestly sounds like crap

It pays the same starting as where I'm from (cheap flyover) and they work a ton/more of hours, at least when they first start. It seems like they also get evaluated more often and more harshly.

Teaching in a mid-size flyover city sounds 180 though. My teachers never returned papers to us (for like 4 months) and didn't really do anything outside of teaching class. One of my AP teachers was a Wall Street burn out, who ended up telling us he became a high school teacher for the QOL (and he came back to his hometown to do that). I didn't really understand what he was saying at the time - but now I do. He said the hours were shit, he never saw his kids, and he thought screw it - I'm going back home to become a teacher.

[Johann]

literal plumbers make $117k in shithole cheap COL NJ http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/01/news/ec ... index.html