Lets Talk Paul Hastings Forum

[Rahviveh]

Meanwhile Paul Hastings topped AmLaw's midlevel satisfaction survey AGAIN. Another survey too, but I forget which and don't feel like searching. If the general vibe of this board is that these surveys are COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE, why do they keep coming out the same way?

Not attempting to argue with the hivemind, just legitimately curious and considering an offer in DC. I get what everyone is saying about not being great at anything besides Labor & Employment, but what about all the job satisfaction stuff? In theory, like, in a complete vacuum where exit options don't matter, the "happy associates" stuff sounds much better than the alternative, but is it even a little bit real?

(I'll fully concede the cubicles aren't a great look for the incoming class.)

I think you have to keep in mind the TLS culture. TLS likes to bad talk certain firms because all the cool kids TLSers do it, because they once heard a guy do it. While I didnt accept the offer, I met tons of really nice people at PH while interviewing, but accepted elsewhere. I also know one classmate who summered at NYC PH and loved the people and the environment.

While the surveys very likely don't matter and can be gamed (as the above states), also know that they probably matter as much as what some 1L, who hasn't even done OCI, thinks about the firm b/c of his TLS prestige.

???? This isn't just tls hive mind. Paul Hastings is putting people in cubicles. There are real tangible reasons to avoid. Who cares about your classmate who loved it there. It's meaningless. No law student with options should be going to paul Hastings

[Anonymous User]

Correct me if I'm wrong: isn't the only difference cubicles instead of shared offices? Having worked extensively in both, cubicles have more privacy and really aren't that bad unless your idea of working in privacy involves taking your pants off.

[Anonymous User]

And just so we're clear here, the reason to avoid (in your mind) is purely the cubicles? Half the callbacks I've been on (Hogan being the perfect example) were in junior associates' windowless (but private) offices. I'd rather have a cube with a view, personally. If you have a myriad of other reasons to avoid, I would love to hear them.

[smaug]

Talking through things on the phone (which people do often) is going to be hell in the cubes.

I have to think the cube defenders don't know what that would really be like in practice.

[Anonymous User]

Also had my CB on 9/1 (tues). This silence is killing me

[Restatement90]

???? This isn't just tls hive mind. Paul Hastings is putting people in cubicles. There are real tangible reasons to avoid. Who cares about your classmate who loved it there. It's meaningless. No law student with options should be going to paul Hastings

"Who cares if you know someone PERSONALLY who really liked the firm atmosphere, ATL wrote a story and said cubes are bad!" --< THATS HARD EVIDENCE!!! YOU CANT GO!!!!

I believe this is likely the same bullshit TLS prestige-whore mindset he was talking about.

If nothing else, its probably better for actual PH summers, who will avoid TLS gunners who turned down PH offers because they cant imagine not being able to have their own shared office so they can tell their friends. LOL.

"NO LAW STUDENT WITH OPTIONS".. do you realize how ridiculous you sound.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, other than working in an office with cubicles for 4 years, I have no idea what that would be like.

[smaug]

Have you worked a day as a lawyer or babby lawyer?

How much time did you spend on the phone at your job? How likely were the people next to you to be on the phone?

[Anonymous User]

It was a job on Capitol Hill--the only workplace filled with more insufferable personalities than biglaw. I will take fellow first year peons listening in on my phone calls over the chief of staff listening/critiquing my every word any day of the week. Yes I know what it's like to be banging out work in fire drill-like scenarios while your annoying office mates are all jabbering away on the phone/dealing with their own crap. For a quarter of the biglaw paycheck with long hours AND no windows to boot. I'm just curious as to why people in big law think that, unlike the vast majority of the workforce, the unique demands of their profession NECESSITATE a private office. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to pick certain firms over others. Office space ain't one of them.

[Rahviveh]

???? This isn't just tls hive mind. Paul Hastings is putting people in cubicles. There are real tangible reasons to avoid. Who cares about your classmate who loved it there. It's meaningless. No law student with options should be going to paul Hastings

"Who cares if you know someone PERSONALLY who really liked the firm atmosphere, ATL wrote a story and said cubes are bad!" --< THATS HARD EVIDENCE!!! YOU CANT GO!!!!

I believe this is likely the same bullshit TLS prestige-whore mindset he was talking about.

If nothing else, its probably better for actual PH summers, who will avoid TLS gunners who turned down PH offers because they cant imagine not being able to have their own shared office so they can tell their friends. LOL.

"NO LAW STUDENT WITH OPTIONS".. do you realize how ridiculous you sound.

hey dummy, Summers always love their firm. They are locked in at that poinT. How does not wanting to be in a cubicle make you a gunner.

[Rahviveh]

It was a job on Capitol Hill--the only workplace filled with more insufferable personalities than biglaw. I will take fellow first year peons listening in on my phone calls over the chief of staff listening/critiquing my every word any day of the week. Yes I know what it's like to be banging out work in fire drill-like scenarios while your annoying office mates are all jabbering away on the phone/dealing with their own crap. For a quarter of the biglaw paycheck with long hours AND no windows to boot. I'm just curious as to why people in big law think that, unlike the vast majority of the workforce, the unique demands of their profession NECESSITATE a private office. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to pick certain firms over others. Office space ain't one of them.

Enjoy paul Hastings

[smaug]

Office space and sharing space with your office mate(s) will impact your quality of life at a firm. Why not take that into consideration?

I'm not saying someone is a fool for taking PH. It's a good firm. But, if I was on the fence or weighing offers, that sort of decision making that leads to abandoning offices for cubes is something I would consider. PH seems to take many cost savings measures (which is fine!) but it's something worth considering.

[Glasseyes]

It was a job on Capitol Hill--the only workplace filled with more insufferable personalities than biglaw. I will take fellow first year peons listening in on my phone calls over the chief of staff listening/critiquing my every word any day of the week. Yes I know what it's like to be banging out work in fire drill-like scenarios while your annoying office mates are all jabbering away on the phone/dealing with their own crap. For a quarter of the biglaw paycheck with long hours AND no windows to boot. I'm just curious as to why people in big law think that, unlike the vast majority of the workforce, the unique demands of their profession NECESSITATE a private office. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to pick certain firms over others. Office space ain't one of them.

Enjoy paul Hastings

So you just popped in the thread to take a giant shit then hover over it and breathe the fumes?

Your entire point is reducible to "fuck cubicles", which isn't especially helpful.

[smaug]

Bluntly the question is why is the firm trying to cut costs so aggressively?

[Anonymous User]

Also want to know if anyone's heard from this Tuesday's CB (9/1).

Anyone?

[Restatement90]

Office space and sharing space with your office mate(s) will impact your quality of life at a firm. Why not take that into consideration?

I'm not saying someone is a fool for taking PH. It's a good firm. But, if I was on the fence or weighing offers, that sort of decision making that leads to abandoning offices for cubes is something I would consider. PH seems to take many cost savings measures (which is fine!) but it's something worth considering.

See, this I have no problem with, perfectly respectable analysis/response. But for Rahviev to say "anyone with ANY offers should NOT consider PH" is just down right absurd. My main problem with that is some law students actually read this blog as gospel, and would turn down a very solid firm like PH in favor of a much less noteworthy firm b/c of posts like that.

[Restatement90]

Bluntly the question is why is the firm trying to cut costs so aggressively?

I don't know if its about cost as much as it is space. I did some reading into it just now, and theyre moving to a bit smaller of a space in MetLife building, which is supposed to be a brand new tech driven office. This is probably a way to make up for that. They also claim in that article that this "end zone" (cubicles) will be conducive of a better work environment - although idk how true that is.

While I recently accepted an offer at a firm much lower in the vault rankings (v90), I would switch places with a PH offer holder in a heart beat. Much better exit options, etc.

So 2L out there somewhere, if you are reading this,like smaug said, take this into consideration, but def dont count out a terrific firm b/c of TLS haters.

[Restatement90]

???? This isn't just tls hive mind. Paul Hastings is putting people in cubicles. There are real tangible reasons to avoid. Who cares about your classmate who loved it there. It's meaningless. No law student with options should be going to paul Hastings

"Who cares if you know someone PERSONALLY who really liked the firm atmosphere, ATL wrote a story and said cubes are bad!" --< THATS HARD EVIDENCE!!! YOU CANT GO!!!!

I believe this is likely the same bullshit TLS prestige-whore mindset he was talking about.

If nothing else, its probably better for actual PH summers, who will avoid TLS gunners who turned down PH offers because they cant imagine not being able to have their own shared office so they can tell their friends. LOL.

"NO LAW STUDENT WITH OPTIONS".. do you realize how ridiculous you sound.

hey dummy, Summers always love their firm. They are locked in at that poinT. How does not wanting to be in a cubicle make you a gunner.

I'm talking about people who are going to accept PH offers, they will not have to deal with gunner-herbs who chose a worse firm b/c they read your post on how CUBICLES ARE A NO GO. Although their snapchat stories might be "not that chill bro". You're right actually, they shouldnt go.

[Anonymous User]

I took PH over a similarly but slightly better ranked firm. Over the course of the recruitment process, it became clear that the people at Paul Hastings really are fantastic. Maybe the reputation for associate satisfaction is slightly overplayed but from what I can tell, people seem pretty happy at PH.

I'm sure PH isn't the perfect place for everyone but there aren't many firms that I would have chosen over Paul Hastings.

[Rahviveh]

Bluntly the question is why is the firm trying to cut costs so aggressively?

I don't know if its about cost as much as it is space. I did some reading into it just now, and theyre moving to a bit smaller of a space in MetLife building, which is supposed to be a brand new tech driven office. This is probably a way to make up for that. They also claim in that article that this "end zone" (cubicles) will be conducive of a better work environment - although idk how true that is.

While I recently accepted an offer at a firm much lower in the vault rankings (v90), I would switch places with a PH offer holder in a heart beat. Much better exit options, etc.

So 2L out there somewhere, if you are reading this,like smaug said, take this into consideration, but def dont count out a terrific firm b/c of TLS haters.

this guy is even using the paul Hastings talking points about improving the work environment, even though he claims not to work there. You either work for recruiting or you're a huge fucking tool

2LS reading this: this thread and my posts have obviously drawn in the paul Hastings recruiting staff. Paul Hastings is also making people share offices in LA. They are the only firm to do that. If they are your only offer then just go there and I'm sure things will work out fine. But these are real tangible reasons to not choose a firm, not "on my callback everyone seemed really happy and amazing "

[Anonymous User]

Just as counterpoint to the above, PH is expanding their summer class by a fair amount, so space concerns seem to be driving this at least in part. If you dig around the ATL insider reviews and even the Vault's verdict anecdotes you will see talk of PH as a fairy cheap firm in terms of amenities, and this fits the existing narrative. As for the class expansion, at least in DC they're jumping up from 9 incoming summers to 16 next year. Do with that what you will.

[Anonymous User]

Really hoping for some movement today.
I had CB on 9/1.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's a perfectly good idea to go to a firm that gives you a better office space. I think I made the right choice working at PH, but despite most people being nice you might get stuck working for a dickbag. I think our firm is better than most but I can't be sure. But it seems that way taking to friends.

But I do disagree that sharing an office is really that much better than a shared office. I'd much rather have cubical with window than shared internal offices that some firms have. I think I'd rather have the cubical over the shared external office depending on the arrangement of desks. Shared offices have no privacy. It's a cubical you share with someone.

I've worked in an open space, a cubical, a shared external and a solo office. I'd rank solo external > solo internal >> cubical >= shared external >> shared internal

So if you can get a solo office tell PH to fuck. But also sure you actually will. When I summered I had a solo office but when I came back shared.

A lot of people think PH is just first mover. I've heard rumors some firms are even considering an open plan. I know in my market ph was the first to share but hasn't been the only one. Especially with firms finally growing past their 2007 highs.

[Anonymous User]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this whole cubicle thing just for the NYC office?

[smaug]

in what world do you have more privacy in a cube than you do in a shared office?