Associate at Asian Offices of US Biglaw Firm Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Currently a first year who is thinking about lateraling to Asia; my initial plan was to spend 2-3 years in the US before making the move but now starting to think if it would be better to move asap. I understand moving too early may hurt my chances of ever coming back but currently my plan is to stay in Asia long term. Given this, is there any downside to making the move now? Am I missing anything? I'd be financially better off and I've lived/worked in Asia before so I am not really concerned about lifestyle sacrifices. Also, I heard that youre less likely to be pushed out in Asian offices. Is this true? Ideally, I would like to work for 5-6 years before seeking another job once I lateral.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping for folks in Asia.

[ozymandius]

Currently a first year who is thinking about lateraling to Asia; my initial plan was to spend 2-3 years in the US before making the move but now starting to think if it would be better to move asap. I understand moving too early may hurt my chances of ever coming back but currently my plan is to stay in Asia long term. Given this, is there any downside to making the move now? Am I missing anything? I'd be financially better off and I've lived/worked in Asia before so I am not really concerned about lifestyle sacrifices. Also, I heard that youre less likely to be pushed out in Asian offices. Is this true? Ideally, I would like to work for 5-6 years before seeking another job once I lateral.

Hard to say.

Where do you want to go?

Do you speak the local language or another useful Asian language?

What practice are you in, and are you willing to be flexible about that when in Asia?

The issue is always that it's a bit of a gamble as to whether you'll be doing work that will allow you to build a useful skill set. If you give a bit more detail about what you're actually considering, I'll try to give you a more robust answer.

[Anonymous User]

Currently a first year who is thinking about lateraling to Asia; my initial plan was to spend 2-3 years in the US before making the move but now starting to think if it would be better to move asap. I understand moving too early may hurt my chances of ever coming back but currently my plan is to stay in Asia long term. Given this, is there any downside to making the move now? Am I missing anything? I'd be financially better off and I've lived/worked in Asia before so I am not really concerned about lifestyle sacrifices. Also, I heard that youre less likely to be pushed out in Asian offices. Is this true? Ideally, I would like to work for 5-6 years before seeking another job once I lateral.

Hard to say.

Where do you want to go?

Do you speak the local language or another useful Asian language?

What practice are you in, and are you willing to be flexible about that when in Asia?

The issue is always that it's a bit of a gamble as to whether you'll be doing work that will allow you to build a useful skill set. If you give a bit more detail about what you're actually considering, I'll try to give you a more robust answer.

More about myself: target market is hk/sg, unfortunately I don't speak an Asian language fluently (I do speak at conversational level but I know that is useless), I am doing finance work at v15 but flexible (in fact would like to switch to cap markets)

I think I may be a weak candidate and it may not be possible to lateral in the first place but I want to know if I do somehow find an opportunity what the risks are. Again I don't plan to return to the states and I would be perfectly fine if exit ops are limited to the region. Thanks

[Anonymous User]

You mentioned that the demand for laterals are mostly concentrated in M&A and capital markets, but what about banking&finance/credit lawyers?

How big is the lateral market in HK for US lawyers with 3~5 years of debt financing experience (V10 NY)?

Thanks

[ozymandius]

Currently a first year who is thinking about lateraling to Asia; my initial plan was to spend 2-3 years in the US before making the move but now starting to think if it would be better to move asap. I understand moving too early may hurt my chances of ever coming back but currently my plan is to stay in Asia long term. Given this, is there any downside to making the move now? Am I missing anything? I'd be financially better off and I've lived/worked in Asia before so I am not really concerned about lifestyle sacrifices. Also, I heard that youre less likely to be pushed out in Asian offices. Is this true? Ideally, I would like to work for 5-6 years before seeking another job once I lateral.

Hard to say.

Where do you want to go?

Do you speak the local language or another useful Asian language?

What practice are you in, and are you willing to be flexible about that when in Asia?

The issue is always that it's a bit of a gamble as to whether you'll be doing work that will allow you to build a useful skill set. If you give a bit more detail about what you're actually considering, I'll try to give you a more robust answer.

More about myself: target market is hk/sg, unfortunately I don't speak an Asian language fluently (I do speak at conversational level but I know that is useless), I am doing finance work at v15 but flexible (in fact would like to switch to cap markets)

I think I may be a weak candidate and it may not be possible to lateral in the first place but I want to know if I do somehow find an opportunity what the risks are. Again I don't plan to return to the states and I would be perfectly fine if exit ops are limited to the region. Thanks

Ok, sounds like you're pretty flexible, and the priority for you is just moving somewhere in Asia.

I'm not an expert on the relative strengths of transactional practices in Asia, but my sense is that US capital markets work would be available in both HK and Sing. HK has had a robust cap markets scene for a while, and I know quite a few people doing it in Singapore--they're mostly busy.

The thing about Asia is that you won't get the training that you would get in a NY mothership office. So, self-examine: are you self-sufficient, in general? Or do you need a lot of training to do something right? More importantly, can you credibly sell yourself as the former? It's ok if you need a lot of training--there's no shame in that. But if you do, coming to Asia as a junior associate will be unpleasant for all involved.

I'd recommend engaging a headhunter and finding out about what the specific options would be. I don't recommend that you use Kinney recruiting (the guys who advertise about HK on above the law).

[ozymandius]

You mentioned that the demand for laterals are mostly concentrated in M&A and capital markets, but what about banking&finance/credit lawyers?

How big is the lateral market in HK for US lawyers with 3~5 years of debt financing experience (V10 NY)?

Thanks

Sounds like you'd have options. As you might imagine, that's kind of the sweet spot for laterals.

[Anonymous User]

You mentioned that the demand for laterals are mostly concentrated in M&A and capital markets, but what about banking&finance/credit lawyers?

How big is the lateral market in HK for US lawyers with 3~5 years of debt financing experience (V10 NY)?

Thanks

Sounds like you'd have options. As you might imagine, that's kind of the sweet spot for laterals.

can you elaborate? cuz I heard some ppl (ppl not currently working in Asia tho) say that finance lawyers could have trouble finding a position in Asia or are less valued than M&A and cap markets lawyers. By finance here I mean levfin, structured fin, and not project fin.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone recommend a good recruiter for Asia?

[ozymandius]

You mentioned that the demand for laterals are mostly concentrated in M&A and capital markets, but what about banking&finance/credit lawyers?

How big is the lateral market in HK for US lawyers with 3~5 years of debt financing experience (V10 NY)?

Thanks

Sounds like you'd have options. As you might imagine, that's kind of the sweet spot for laterals.

can you elaborate? cuz I heard some ppl (ppl not currently working in Asia tho) say that finance lawyers could have trouble finding a position in Asia or are less valued than M&A and cap markets lawyers. By finance here I mean levfin, structured fin, and not project fin.

So, any practice in Asia you're going to be more of a generalist than someone in NYC. That's just part of the deal--at the very least, you're going to need to be more flexible. Having worked in finance of any variety will give you a useful skill set. It's true that you may not end up doing lev fin, but that's an upside.

An associate in the 3-5 year range with high-pressure deal experience and attention to detail is almost always worth a look: still young enough to be repurposed but old enough not to need potty training is an attractive proposition in most practices.

[Anonymous User]

You mentioned that the demand for laterals are mostly concentrated in M&A and capital markets, but what about banking&finance/credit lawyers?

How big is the lateral market in HK for US lawyers with 3~5 years of debt financing experience (V10 NY)?

Thanks

Sounds like you'd have options. As you might imagine, that's kind of the sweet spot for laterals.

can you elaborate? cuz I heard some ppl (ppl not currently working in Asia tho) say that finance lawyers could have trouble finding a position in Asia or are less valued than M&A and cap markets lawyers. By finance here I mean levfin, structured fin, and not project fin.

So, any practice in Asia you're going to be more of a generalist than someone in NYC. That's just part of the deal--at the very least, you're going to need to be more flexible. Having worked in finance of any variety will give you a useful skill set. It's true that you may not end up doing lev fin, but that's an upside.

An associate in the 3-5 year range with high-pressure deal experience and attention to detail is almost always worth a look: still young enough to be repurposed but old enough not to need potty training is an attractive proposition in most practices.

Thanks. Can I pm some questions?

[ozymandius]

You mentioned that the demand for laterals are mostly concentrated in M&A and capital markets, but what about banking&finance/credit lawyers?

How big is the lateral market in HK for US lawyers with 3~5 years of debt financing experience (V10 NY)?

Thanks

Sounds like you'd have options. As you might imagine, that's kind of the sweet spot for laterals.

can you elaborate? cuz I heard some ppl (ppl not currently working in Asia tho) say that finance lawyers could have trouble finding a position in Asia or are less valued than M&A and cap markets lawyers. By finance here I mean levfin, structured fin, and not project fin.

So, any practice in Asia you're going to be more of a generalist than someone in NYC. That's just part of the deal--at the very least, you're going to need to be more flexible. Having worked in finance of any variety will give you a useful skill set. It's true that you may not end up doing lev fin, but that's an upside.

An associate in the 3-5 year range with high-pressure deal experience and attention to detail is almost always worth a look: still young enough to be repurposed but old enough not to need potty training is an attractive proposition in most practices.

Thanks. Can I pm some questions?

Sure.

[Anonymous User]

Is there any position for those who come directly out of law school without prior US experience? I speak a local language--looking at both Sing and HK but mostly the former. Would appreciate any feedback! I have families there and would like to come back.

[Anonymous User]

Is there any position for those who come directly out of law school without prior US experience? I speak a local language--looking at both Sing and HK but mostly the former. Would appreciate any feedback! I have families there and would like to come back.

Check your school's OCI list. I know some of the bigger firms (Skadden, dpw etc.) interview for direct hires into their Asian offices.

[Anonymous User]

You mentioned that the demand for laterals are mostly concentrated in M&A and capital markets, but what about banking&finance/credit lawyers?

How big is the lateral market in HK for US lawyers with 3~5 years of debt financing experience (V10 NY)?

Thanks

Sounds like you'd have options. As you might imagine, that's kind of the sweet spot for laterals.

can you elaborate? cuz I heard some ppl (ppl not currently working in Asia tho) say that finance lawyers could have trouble finding a position in Asia or are less valued than M&A and cap markets lawyers. By finance here I mean levfin, structured fin, and not project fin.

So, any practice in Asia you're going to be more of a generalist than someone in NYC. That's just part of the deal--at the very least, you're going to need to be more flexible. Having worked in finance of any variety will give you a useful skill set. It's true that you may not end up doing lev fin, but that's an upside.

An associate in the 3-5 year range with high-pressure deal experience and attention to detail is almost always worth a look: still young enough to be repurposed but old enough not to need potty training is an attractive proposition in most practices.

So when HK offices hire US corporate lawyers, are they often hired more or less as "generalists"?

I don't mind leaving levfin. I'm all for getting repurposed into a M&A or Cap Markets or even as a generalist, but my concern is how competitive I'll be compared to other asian m&a or cap markets lawyers trying to break into HK.

From what I gather, it seems like the specific skillset acquired from doing levfin isn't very useful in HK, aside from general skills you mentioned (e.g., attention to detail, working under high pressure, which can be acquired doing any kind of work in top NY firms). I heard its partly because HK deals don't use Loan Syndications & Trading Association (LSTA) model in their credit agreement. Comparing that to cap markets where the specific expertise is essential, I wonder if I would be as desirable as other asian Cap Markets/M&A lawyers from peer firms in NY.

That being said, would you recommend trying to change my practice within my current firm? I'm fairly junior and I might have a shot at moving over to M&A and Cap Markets.

Thanks!

[candidlatke]

Does it matter if you can speak but not read the pertinent language? Or do you need to have both?

[Anonymous User]

I will probably land a big law job from OCI. But, I am a F1 student so I am at very significant risk of not getting a H1b visa. I'd say the risk is around 50%. If so, I would have 1 year of work experience when I need to leave for Asia. I'd know 5 months in advance if I have to leave.

How hard is it to land on my feet in Asia (HK highly preferred because I speak Mandarin) in this scenario? I would like to know the damage so I can decide whether to head off the disaster. Off the top of my head, I plan to do Eb5 investment immigration or try to get married. Obviously both plans have significant downside, so I wouldn't do them unless it's nearly impossible for me to stay employed either in U.S. or Asia.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I am a junior associate at a v20 firm. I plan to move to Asia after getting 3-4 years of experience in the US.
Unfortunately my firm doesn't have an office at the particular Asian country I plan to move. I grew up in that country and have a citizenship as well.
1. How should I apply for lateral positions? How do you know about job openings? Should I apply to the home office or satellite office directly? Or use a recruiter?
2. Someone told me that applying directly to a satellite office will not get you the same level of salary as the home office and COLA? Is that true?
3. Can you name a reputable recruiter that is specialized in an Asian market?

Thanks

[berkeleygoogles]

How fluent do you have to be?

I'm conversationally fluent in Mandarin (pretty much native but would have to learn technical terms) but my reading/writing isn't amazing. If I had to guess my Mandarin reading/writing is probably the level of a Chinese 5th grader lol.

[Anonymous User]

For those firms (US or UK based) that hire 2Ls directly for their Asian offices, will the training be good enough that there won't be a need to go through NYC?

[Anonymous User]

What's the COLA for HK offices and do they vary from firm to firm?

Are there any US tax lawyers abroad?

Hi were you a tax lawyer looking to move into HK?