UChicago OCI 2015 Forum

[Robb]

FWIW, here are 500+ firms ranked by number of expected 2015 associates:


Skadden (firmwide) 195
Ropes & Gray LLP, 141
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP, 134
Paul Weiss (NY) 128
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP, 119
Skadden (NY) 108
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP, 108
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP, 100
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP, 98
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, 93
Vinson & Elkins LLP, 72
hogan lovells US LLP, 68
goodwin procter llp, 65
O'Melveny & Myers LLP, 62
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, 58
Foley & Lardner LLP, 56
Perkins Coie LLP, 43
Kirkland & Ellis LLP, 41
cooley llp, 37
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP, 37
venable llp, 37
Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz, PC, 35
dla piper LLP (US), 35
Hunton & Williams LLP, 35
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, 28
McDermott Will & Emery, 27
Bryan Cave LLP, 26
Husch Blackwell, 24
nixon peabody llp, 24
Polsinelli, 22
Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP, 20
Pepper Hamilton LLP, 18
Dinsmore & Shohl, 17
duane morris llp, 17
fox rothschild llp, 17
mcguirewoods LLP, 16
Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP, 15
Dentons US LLP, 14
Stinson Leonard Street LLP, 13
Cozen O'Connor, 12
Littler Mendelson P.C., 12
Barnes & Thornburg LLP, 6
Ogletree, Deakins, Nash, Smoak & Stewart, P.C., 6
Allen & Overy LLP, 0
paul hastings llp, 0
Reed Smith LLP, 0
Weil (NY) 0
Weil (multioffice) 0
Winston & Strawn LLP, 0[/code]

And here are offer rates for the 2014 summer classes:

Barnes & Thornburg LLP, 100% ( 8 / 8 )
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP, 100% ( 74 / 74 )
Cozen O'Connor, 100% ( 15 / 15 )
Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP, 100% ( 95 / 95 )
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP, 100% ( 119 / 119 )
duane morris llp, 100% ( 12 / 12 )
hogan lovells US LLP, 100% ( 58 / 58 )
Hunton & Williams LLP, 100% ( 25 / 25 )
Kilpatrick Townsend & Stockton LLP, 100% ( 9 / 9 )
Kirkland & Ellis LLP, 100% ( 42 / 42 )
Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison LLP, 100% ( 84 / 84 )
Pepper Hamilton LLP, 100% ( 14 / 14 )
Polsinelli, 100% ( 18 / 18 )
Ropes & Gray LLP, 100% ( 99 / 99 )
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, 100% ( 78 / 78 )
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, 100% ( 181 / 181 )
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, 100% ( 93 / 93 )
Stinson Leonard Street LLP, 100% ( 14 / 14 )
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP, 100% ( 141 / 141 )
venable llp, 100% ( 31 / 31 )
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, 100% ( 41 / 41 )
goodwin procter llp, 98% ( 47 / 48 )
dla piper LLP (US), 97% ( 33 / 34 )
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP, 97% ( 119 / 123 )
paul hastings llp, 97% ( 56 / 58 )
Vinson & Elkins LLP, 96% ( 50 / 52 )
cooley llp, 96% ( 48 / 50 )
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP, 96% ( 44 / 46 )
Allen & Overy LLP, 95% ( 19 / 20 )
Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP, 95% ( 19 / 20 )
O'Melveny & Myers LLP, 95% ( 55 / 58 )
Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, 95% ( 35 / 37 )
Foley & Lardner LLP, 94% ( 33 / 35 )
Dentons US LLP, 94% ( 16 / 17 )
Dinsmore & Shohl, 94% ( 16 / 17 )
Bryan Cave LLP, 94% ( 29 / 31 )
McDermott Will & Emery, 93% ( 27 / 29 )
mcguirewoods LLP, 93% ( 13 / 14 )
Perkins Coie LLP, 91% ( 30 / 33 )
fox rothschild llp, 87% ( 13 / 15 )
Littler Mendelson P.C., 86% ( 12 / 14 )
nixon peabody llp, 84% ( 16 / 19 )
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP, 82% ( 28 / 34 )
Husch Blackwell, 74% ( 23 / 31 )
Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz, PC, 65% ( 20 / 31 )
Ogletree, Deakins, Nash, Smoak & Stewart, P.C., 44% ( 4 / 9 )
Reed Smith LLP, #DIV/0! ( 0 / 0 )
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP, #DIV/0! ( 0 / 0 )
Winston & Strawn LLP, #DIV/0! ( 0 / 0 )

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know the rough timeline for knowing whether or not we made the K&E cut-off?

We found out 7/15 last year... which, yea, I have no idea how that relates to when exactly we got grades back. I don't think it was same-day but I don't remember it being that long after. Congrats on being in a position to plausibly ask, though!

[WheninLaw]

Can someone point me to where we can find the info about expected # of 2L SA for San Francisco. I can't seem to find that info on the NALP website. Thanks!

Robb already hooked you up, but also: if you are interested in SF, you should mass mail. There are a lot of SF offices (Kirkland, for example) that don't come to OCI and will give interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone point me to where we can find the info about expected # of 2L SA for San Francisco. I can't seem to find that info on the NALP website. Thanks!

Robb already hooked you up, but also: if you are interested in SF, you should mass mail. There are a lot of SF offices (Kirkland, for example) that don't come to OCI and will give interviews.

Thanks, I definitely plan on mass mailing once career services releases the list of firms that'll be at OCI.

Relatedly, I'm still a bit confused as to how applying / bidding for multiple offices works. It's totally kosher for me to mass mail K&E SF even if I'm interviewing with them for Chicago, right? What about for firms with multiple offices showing up for OCI?

[bearsfan23]

Can someone point me to where we can find the info about expected # of 2L SA for San Francisco. I can't seem to find that info on the NALP website. Thanks!

Robb already hooked you up, but also: if you are interested in SF, you should mass mail. There are a lot of SF offices (Kirkland, for example) that don't come to OCI and will give interviews.

Thanks, I definitely plan on mass mailing once career services releases the list of firms that'll be at OCI.

Relatedly, I'm still a bit confused as to how applying / bidding for multiple offices works. It's totally kosher for me to mass mail K&E SF even if I'm interviewing with them for Chicago, right? What about for firms with multiple offices showing up for OCI?

On Symplicity you will be able to see which firms are interviewing for which offices and whether or not they allow interviews for multiple offices.

[2014]

Can someone point me to where we can find the info about expected # of 2L SA for San Francisco. I can't seem to find that info on the NALP website. Thanks!

Robb already hooked you up, but also: if you are interested in SF, you should mass mail. There are a lot of SF offices (Kirkland, for example) that don't come to OCI and will give interviews.

Thanks, I definitely plan on mass mailing once career services releases the list of firms that'll be at OCI.

Relatedly, I'm still a bit confused as to how applying / bidding for multiple offices works. It's totally kosher for me to mass mail K&E SF even if I'm interviewing with them for Chicago, right? What about for firms with multiple offices showing up for OCI?

For sure but you should assume they know you mass mailed other offices. Many times they won't, and it happens all the time so they likely don't care, but you don't want to get caught in the classic "I'm only interviewing in Chicago!!!" story when their recruiting teams might know that isn't the case.

[Anonymous User]

what is considered URM for biglaw hiring and it is nearly as important as it is for law school admissions?

[Ron Howard]

what is considered URM for biglaw hiring and it is nearly as important as it is for law school admissions?

Basically just that same ethnic groups that it is for admissions, and being a women can help too. But I don't think the edge for URM is anywhere close to where it is for admissions. I mean, a 164 URM can get into Columbia, but I doubt someone with a comparably crappy GPA, who is clearly beneath many cutoffs, is likely to fare as well with elite firms.

[Ron Howard]

Magnificent post, Robb. Thank you!

[WheninLaw]

what is considered URM for biglaw hiring and it is nearly as important as it is for law school admissions?

Basically just that same ethnic groups that it is for admissions, and being a women can help too. But I don't think the edge for URM is anywhere close to where it is for admissions. I mean, a 164 URM can get into Columbia, but I doubt someone with a comparably crappy GPA, who is clearly beneath many cutoffs, is likely to fare as well with elite firms.

I'm not certain this is true, though I think much of it is anecdotal and firm dependent. For instance, GDC has gone WAY BELOW its cutoff for certain groups. I'd probably treat as a solid bump: if you weren't competitive, it might make you marginally competitive, and so forth.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone point me to where we can find the info about expected # of 2L SA for San Francisco. I can't seem to find that info on the NALP website. Thanks!

Robb already hooked you up, but also: if you are interested in SF, you should mass mail. There are a lot of SF offices (Kirkland, for example) that don't come to OCI and will give interviews.

Thanks, I definitely plan on mass mailing once career services releases the list of firms that'll be at OCI.

Relatedly, I'm still a bit confused as to how applying / bidding for multiple offices works. It's totally kosher for me to mass mail K&E SF even if I'm interviewing with them for Chicago, right? What about for firms with multiple offices showing up for OCI?

For sure but you should assume they know you mass mailed other offices. Many times they won't, and it happens all the time so they likely don't care, but you don't want to get caught in the classic "I'm only interviewing in Chicago!!!" story when their recruiting teams might know that isn't the case.

AFAIK Kirkland talks to their other offices. Best to just pick one location for them. See the old thread for more info.

[WheninLaw]

Can someone point me to where we can find the info about expected # of 2L SA for San Francisco. I can't seem to find that info on the NALP website. Thanks!

Robb already hooked you up, but also: if you are interested in SF, you should mass mail. There are a lot of SF offices (Kirkland, for example) that don't come to OCI and will give interviews.

Thanks, I definitely plan on mass mailing once career services releases the list of firms that'll be at OCI.

Relatedly, I'm still a bit confused as to how applying / bidding for multiple offices works. It's totally kosher for me to mass mail K&E SF even if I'm interviewing with them for Chicago, right? What about for firms with multiple offices showing up for OCI?

For sure but you should assume they know you mass mailed other offices. Many times they won't, and it happens all the time so they likely don't care, but you don't want to get caught in the classic "I'm only interviewing in Chicago!!!" story when their recruiting teams might know that isn't the case.

AFAIK Kirkland talks to their other offices. Best to just pick one location for them. See the old thread for more info.

As everything, this very much depends on stuff like GPA. I did SF, LA, DC, and Chicago, and they didn't care at all.

Edit: If anything, I think it helped, since it let me spin a really plausible I LOVE KIRKLAND story.

[Ron Howard]

what is considered URM for biglaw hiring and it is nearly as important as it is for law school admissions?

Basically just that same ethnic groups that it is for admissions, and being a women can help too. But I don't think the edge for URM is anywhere close to where it is for admissions. I mean, a 164 URM can get into Columbia, but I doubt someone with a comparably crappy GPA, who is clearly beneath many cutoffs, is likely to fare as well with elite firms.

I'm not certain this is true, though I think much of it is anecdotal and firm dependent. For instance, GDC has gone WAY BELOW its cutoff for certain groups. I'd probably treat as a solid bump: if you weren't competitive, it might make you marginally competitive, and so forth.

Yes, they will go below the cutoffs, but I don't think the effect is as big as it is for admissions (certainly depends on the firm though as well as other soft factors). Anyway, I think our disagreement may reside more in our use of the term "way below" than in our actual understanding of the matter.

[Anonymous User]

178 and want chicago transactional. ... assuming safest approach is to bid ny.... but if I do bid only chicago plus mail non OCI chicago, is it still a crazy risk?

Don't want to out myself but decent non GPA related softs and ties to chicago.

[2014]

178 and want chicago transactional. ... assuming safest approach is to bid ny.... but if I do bid only chicago plus mail non OCI chicago, is it still a crazy risk?

Don't want to out myself but decent non GPA related softs and ties to chicago.

I'd put your odds at like 75-80% at getting SOMETHING in Chicago but the issue is that not all firms here have robust corporate practices and because of your grades and the competitiveness of the market you are likely to be choosing between 1-2, MAYBE 3 firms. If your options are 2 Chi firms with narrow corporate practices and you could have had a Simpson or Cravath or w/e offer, you may look back at it with regrets.

That being said, if you are really more all in on Chi than you are all in on corporate or all in on getting a job then you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Anonymous User]

176.5 and want ny transactional. what would be my best chances of landing a job in ny (considering splitting with chicago)? what would be some firms that i should cross off the list and what firms woudl you recommend that i mass mail? i have w/e in and ties to ny.

[WheninLaw]

176.5 and want ny transactional. what would be my best chances of landing a job in ny (considering splitting with chicago)? what would be some firms that i should cross off the list and what firms woudl you recommend that i mass mail? i have w/e in and ties to ny.

The CB report is pretty helpful for questions like this.

Spitting is probably not going to happen. Are you a URM? Any work experience?

[Anonymous User]

176.5 and want ny transactional. what would be my best chances of landing a job in ny (considering splitting with chicago)? what would be some firms that i should cross off the list and what firms woudl you recommend that i mass mail? i have w/e in and ties to ny.

The CB report is pretty helpful for questions like this.

Spitting is probably not going to happen. Are you a URM? Any work experience?

is the CB report a hard 25-75 cut-off? Just going with NY is fine. I am not a URM but have work exp. in consulting for 2yrs in ny.

[WheninLaw]

176.5 and want ny transactional. what would be my best chances of landing a job in ny (considering splitting with chicago)? what would be some firms that i should cross off the list and what firms woudl you recommend that i mass mail? i have w/e in and ties to ny.

The CB report is pretty helpful for questions like this.

Spitting is probably not going to happen. Are you a URM? Any work experience?

is the CB report a hard 25-75 cut-off? Just going with NY is fine. I am not a URM but have work exp. in consulting for 2yrs in ny.

Not a hard cutoff by any means, but gives you a decent idea. If the consulting experience is relevant, I think you will be in okay shape. The obvious places are out (Wachtell, Boies, etc.), but for the vast majority of firms, you have a shot. Be prepared to explain bad grades and be knowledgable about practice areas.

Someone with more NY experience will likely be more helpful.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone point me to where we can find the info about expected # of 2L SA for San Francisco. I can't seem to find that info on the NALP website. Thanks!

Robb already hooked you up, but also: if you are interested in SF, you should mass mail. There are a lot of SF offices (Kirkland, for example) that don't come to OCI and will give interviews.

Thanks, I definitely plan on mass mailing once career services releases the list of firms that'll be at OCI.

Relatedly, I'm still a bit confused as to how applying / bidding for multiple offices works. It's totally kosher for me to mass mail K&E SF even if I'm interviewing with them for Chicago, right? What about for firms with multiple offices showing up for OCI?

For sure but you should assume they know you mass mailed other offices. Many times they won't, and it happens all the time so they likely don't care, but you don't want to get caught in the classic "I'm only interviewing in Chicago!!!" story when their recruiting teams might know that isn't the case.

AFAIK Kirkland talks to their other offices. Best to just pick one location for them. See the old thread for more info.

As everything, this very much depends on stuff like GPA. I did SF, LA, DC, and Chicago, and they didn't care at all.

Edit: If anything, I think it helped, since it let me spin a really plausible I LOVE KIRKLAND story.

I had callbacks with two offices and it took weeks longer than everyone else in the market for them to give me my offer. Recruiting said they wanted to make sure both offices were ready to give me an offer before extending one. Seems like doing two sets of callbacks increases your chances to screw up and doesn't help too much.

[N.P.H.]

178 and want chicago transactional. ... assuming safest approach is to bid ny.... but if I do bid only chicago plus mail non OCI chicago, is it still a crazy risk?

Don't want to out myself but decent non GPA related softs and ties to chicago.

I'd put your odds at like 75-80% at getting SOMETHING in Chicago but the issue is that not all firms here have robust corporate practices and because of your grades and the competitiveness of the market you are likely to be choosing between 1-2, MAYBE 3 firms. If your options are 2 Chi firms with narrow corporate practices and you could have had a Simpson or Cravath or w/e offer, you may look back at it with regrets.

That being said, if you are really more all in on Chi than you are all in on corporate or all in on getting a job then you gotta do what you gotta do.

Agree. Also laterals from firms like STB/DPW to Skadden/Kirkland/Sidley aren't rare. Think long-term.

[Anonymous User]

176.5 and want ny transactional. what would be my best chances of landing a job in ny (considering splitting with chicago)? what would be some firms that i should cross off the list and what firms woudl you recommend that i mass mail? i have w/e in and ties to ny.

The CB report is pretty helpful for questions like this.

Spitting is probably not going to happen. Are you a URM? Any work experience?

is the CB report a hard 25-75 cut-off? Just going with NY is fine. I am not a URM but have work exp. in consulting for 2yrs in ny.

Not a hard cutoff by any means, but gives you a decent idea. If the consulting experience is relevant, I think you will be in okay shape. The obvious places are out (Wachtell, Boies, etc.), but for the vast majority of firms, you have a shot. Be prepared to explain bad grades and be knowledgable about practice areas.

Someone with more NY experience will likely be more helpful.

Thanks for the reply. I am just starting and people on previous board seems to focus on slot numbers and CB minimums. Is CB minimum referrring to the 25% cutoff line as well? thank you

[2014]

OCS used to only give CB min and max instead of 25/75 so as recently as 2 years ago we had to go with far less useful information.

That being said, the 25ths should be taken with a grain of salt at best. There is often a pretty sizable contingent of people with good grades who clean up in New York and drag the whole list up so the 25th by no means reflects a slim chance, it's actually probably closer to the median of people who are truly considering the firm.

To 176.5 anon specifically, in NY you are a long shot for Cravath, SullCrom, DPW, and perhaps Simpson but none are wasted bids. Your targets are more likely to be the smaller class size firms with only 21 interview slots which are unfortunately a perilous unpredictable shit show, but your odds are still quite good. Mass mail at least every NY firm with a 10+ person class who doesn't come to OCI though.

[eazye]

Want lit, leaning just nyc, strong ties and some interesting softs, will interview well, 179 and change. Is anything off the table besides Wachtell? Is Boies in play?

[2014]

Want lit, leaning just nyc, strong ties and some interesting softs, will interview well, 179 and change. Is anything off the table besides Wachtell? Is Boies in play?

Wachtell is a long shot but worth a bid at the end of your list. Boies is less likely imo, they are cutting their summer class size I believe and were already LR/clerk heavy. Given that you want lit it's probably worth a bid though. Cravath takes diversity and uGPA into account so should either not be your strong suits it might hurt your odds, but absolutely a must bid.

Other than that every 42 slot firm is going to be more likely than not and the 21 slot ones will be a coin flip at worst (assuming you are being candid about interviewing well).