2015 Loyola Patent Law Interview Program - unofficial thread Forum

[Bumi]

I keep going back and forth about bidding at Loyola. I'm at a T30 school with ~3.7 GPA (likely around top 15%). I have a B.S. in Neuroscience (patent bar eligible) and worked in a few different labs during undergrad, but that's as far as my science background goes. With that, I know I would only really be qualified (and only actually want to do) patent litigation. I'm not 100% sold on doing patent work at all though, although I do find it interesting, and I definitely want to make the most out of OCI on my campus. I mostly want to increase my chances of getting a job in general...

I'm wondering if bidding at Loyola has any effect on interviews at regular OCI? Could I hurt my chances on campus OCI by doing Loyola? Especially since I don't have a very hard science background?

The details are slightly different, but this is almost exactly the situation I faced. I decided to do PLIP and was INCREDIBLY glad I did. There are many firms at PLIP that aren't likely to be at your oci. Just bid on those. Also, I bid on a lot of cities that I want targeting at oci. For me, there was zero overlap between the firms I bid on at PLIP and on campus, so there was no downside. At worst it's a one-day interviewing bootcamp that gets you ready for oci, and at best you'll have some extra callbacks and offers, which only help you.

[Anonymous User]

About me: CCN medianish (3.2). MechE UG, significant WE, reg. patent agent
Bidding strategy question: Is it a waste to bid Paul Weiss or Skadden at PLIP? Will they reach down to a 3.2 for IP hiring?

I have no idea how competitive you'd be at those two firms, but as a general rule, I would say that firms emphasize different qualifications for lit than they do pros.

At firms that do pros (pretty much all of the boutiques plus a few GP), you'll be very competitive. These firms will care a lot about your undergrad major, uGPA, and your having passed the patent bar.

Firms that are only looking to hire for lit will care more about your law school GPA. Your school rank is strong, and your other IP credentials are good, so I'd guess you'd have a shot of pulling a screener/CB from top firms, but it depends how deep firms are digging for patent lit associates this year.

Some firms are hiring for specialized tech transactions practice groups. I don't know what they'll be looking for, but I'd guess it would be closer to the patent lit qualifications - T14 students with high law school GPA.

You probably don't have a shot at a V20. Those firms simply don't do enough patent lit (and no pros) to warrant bringing on someone whose credentials are significantly lower than their average just for that mech e degree. Go for the boutiques.

[Anonymous User]

About me: CCN medianish (3.2). MechE UG, significant WE, reg. patent agent
Bidding strategy question: Is it a waste to bid Paul Weiss or Skadden at PLIP? Will they reach down to a 3.2 for IP hiring?

I have no idea how competitive you'd be at those two firms, but as a general rule, I would say that firms emphasize different qualifications for lit than they do pros.

At firms that do pros (pretty much all of the boutiques plus a few GP), you'll be very competitive. These firms will care a lot about your undergrad major, uGPA, and your having passed the patent bar.

Firms that are only looking to hire for lit will care more about your law school GPA. Your school rank is strong, and your other IP credentials are good, so I'd guess you'd have a shot of pulling a screener/CB from top firms, but it depends how deep firms are digging for patent lit associates this year.

Some firms are hiring for specialized tech transactions practice groups. I don't know what they'll be looking for, but I'd guess it would be closer to the patent lit qualifications - T14 students with high law school GPA.

You probably don't have a shot at a V20. Those firms simply don't do enough patent lit (and no pros) to warrant bringing on someone whose credentials are significantly lower than their average just for that mech e degree. Go for the boutiques.

Does this change at all with an EE degree? Same grades (medianish), T10, 2 years WE in industry, 1L BigLaw SA.

[Anonymous User]

From personal experience, I am compelled to advise people ITT: if you don't have a technical degree, don't bother going. It'll be a waste of your time/money. Virtually nobody gets a job at PLIP unless they have a CS/EE/ME/Physics BS or a PhD in chemistry.

Please support this broad sweeping generalization with some sort of proof.

Edit: anon cuz i fall into the above category.

There was a time when patent lit was so hot that a high ranked T14er could get a job at PLIP. But patent lit is quickly dying and firms are barely hiring in that area even for people with STEM degrees. And if you are a high ranked T14er, you'll get a job at OCI anyway.

If you want proof just google: patent litigation slowdown.

I dont doubt that you could be right, although you could be making a generalization.

However, why would these firms put NO bar eligibility required and NO special background required if they were searching for specific credentials. If they felt the way you say, why have to sift through automatic NO applications?

[Anonymous User]

From personal experience, I am compelled to advise people ITT: if you don't have a technical degree, don't bother going. It'll be a waste of your time/money. Virtually nobody gets a job at PLIP unless they have a CS/EE/ME/Physics BS or a PhD in chemistry.

Please support this broad sweeping generalization with some sort of proof.

Edit: anon cuz i fall into the above category.

There was a time when patent lit was so hot that a high ranked T14er could get a job at PLIP. But patent lit is quickly dying and firms are barely hiring in that area even for people with STEM degrees. And if you are a high ranked T14er, you'll get a job at OCI anyway.

If you want proof just google: patent litigation slowdown.

I dont doubt that you could be right, although you could be making a generalization.

However, why would these firms put NO bar eligibility required and NO special background required if they were searching for specific credentials. If they felt the way you say, why have to sift through automatic NO applications?

I don't know why firms do that, but they might figure it cant hurt to look at more resumes and who knows, one out of a hundred non-tech people might be a real gem (but again, that gem would have gotten an oci offer anyway.)

[Anonymous User]

About me: CCN medianish (3.2). MechE UG, significant WE, reg. patent agent
Bidding strategy question: Is it a waste to bid Paul Weiss or Skadden at PLIP? Will they reach down to a 3.2 for IP hiring?

I have no idea how competitive you'd be at those two firms, but as a general rule, I would say that firms emphasize different qualifications for lit than they do pros.

At firms that do pros (pretty much all of the boutiques plus a few GP), you'll be very competitive. These firms will care a lot about your undergrad major, uGPA, and your having passed the patent bar.

Firms that are only looking to hire for lit will care more about your law school GPA. Your school rank is strong, and your other IP credentials are good, so I'd guess you'd have a shot of pulling a screener/CB from top firms, but it depends how deep firms are digging for patent lit associates this year.

Some firms are hiring for specialized tech transactions practice groups. I don't know what they'll be looking for, but I'd guess it would be closer to the patent lit qualifications - T14 students with high law school GPA.

You probably don't have a shot at a V20. Those firms simply don't do enough patent lit (and no pros) to warrant bringing on someone whose credentials are significantly lower than their average just for that mech e degree. Go for the boutiques.

Does this change at all with an EE degree? Same grades (medianish), T10, 2 years WE in industry, 1L BigLaw SA.

EE and we definitely help, but it will vary by office/region. I still think Skadden is a definite no, but Ropes/WilmerHale would be a possibility.

[MBR859]

I keep going back and forth about bidding at Loyola. I'm at a T30 school with ~3.7 GPA (likely around top 15%). I have a B.S. in Neuroscience (patent bar eligible) and worked in a few different labs during undergrad, but that's as far as my science background goes. With that, I know I would only really be qualified (and only actually want to do) patent litigation. I'm not 100% sold on doing patent work at all though, although I do find it interesting, and I definitely want to make the most out of OCI on my campus. I mostly want to increase my chances of getting a job in general...

I'm wondering if bidding at Loyola has any effect on interviews at regular OCI? Could I hurt my chances on campus OCI by doing Loyola? Especially since I don't have a very hard science background?

The details are slightly different, but this is almost exactly the situation I faced. I decided to do PLIP and was INCREDIBLY glad I did. There are many firms at PLIP that aren't likely to be at your oci. Just bid on those. Also, I bid on a lot of cities that I want targeting at oci. For me, there was zero overlap between the firms I bid on at PLIP and on campus, so there was no downside. At worst it's a one-day interviewing bootcamp that gets you ready for oci, and at best you'll have some extra callbacks and offers, which only help you.

Thanks for the reply! One of my issues is I'm pretty set on 1 of 2 cities and all the firms I'm eligible for from those cities (don't require phd/engineering) will be at OCI... Would it still be worth it do apply to the same firms? Or should I just bid on some other cities I normally wouldn't but also wouldn't be opposed to moving to?

[Bumi]

Thanks for the reply! One of my issues is I'm pretty set on 1 of 2 cities and all the firms I'm eligible for from those cities (don't require phd/engineering) will be at OCI... Would it still be worth it do apply to the same firms? Or should I just bid on some other cities I normally wouldn't but also wouldn't be opposed to moving to?

I don't know how your oci works or what your stats are or whatever, and I don't know what these markets are. I am surprised that there aren't any patent boutiques in those cities that you could just take a shot at via PLIP.

So I'm not sure what your best strategy should be. I used it mostly for your second idea: if I strike out at oci completely, where else would I be willing to live/work? when I did it, ties didn't seem to be that important even to areas of the country that usually care about ties.

I am pretty sure there are some firms where you're could get a job through PLIP but by the time your summer rolls around, they won't remember or care whether you still wanted to do patent lit. But most of my PLIP experiences were very clearly only so they could hire a patent person, and if you don't want to label yourself as that (particularly now that partner lit isn't as hot) then maybe it's rational not to risk it.

[gimmedanger]

people without STEM degrees - what is your bidding strategy?

is it best to ignore whether employers want to you to be patent bar eligible and just throw a bid down for every firm you are interested it, or do you only apply for firms where the qualifications seem more relaxed?

[Anonymous User]

people without STEM degrees - what is your bidding strategy?

is it best to ignore whether employers want to you to be patent bar eligible and just throw a bid down for every firm you are interested it, or do you only apply for firms where the qualifications seem more relaxed?

Bid for the firms you can't get at your OCI, and go for general practice firms from a litigation angle, not an exclusively IP angle. With the currently poor state of the litigation job market, *No* firm is going to hire a non-STEM to do patent work alone.

[Anonymous User]

Should we put GPAs (undergraduate and law) on our resumes?

[Anonymous User]

Should we put GPAs (undergraduate and law) on our resumes?

Yes that's one of the most important items on your resume.

[Anonymous User]

Should we put GPAs (undergraduate and law) on our resumes?

Yes that's one of the most important items on your resume.

But since we are submitting our transcript as well, is it really necessary?

[Anonymous User]

Transcript is used by recruiting manager to confirm your GPA that you wrote on your resume. No attorney is actually going to see your transcript. If you don't write it, expect that to be the first question in your interviews.

[lhanvt13]

Transcript is used by recruiting manager to confirm your GPA that you wrote on your resume. No attorney is actually going to see your transcript. If you don't write it, expect that to be the first question in your interviews.

UG GPA: Unless you're doing lit. I only got this question asked for prosecution positions. Never in lit.

[Anonymous User]

Hey!! Is anyone having trouble with submitting applications? After the extended deadline, Symplicity says that the apps can come in until 11:59 today but the bidding options are greyed out like the period has closed (even after default resume/transcript upload). This is a pain because there is no way to talk to anyone about it - anyone having this same problem?

EDIT: fixed after deleted resume and re-upload

[nelue]

Transcript is used by recruiting manager to confirm your GPA that you wrote on your resume. No attorney is actually going to see your transcript. If you don't write it, expect that to be the first question in your interviews.

UG GPA: Unless you're doing lit. I only got this question asked for prosecution positions. Never in lit.

I had a few screeners last year at PLIP. The attorneys interviewing me looked at my transcripts and asked questions about things I did in certain undergrad classes....so they may actually see your transcript. Both Lit and prosecution positions. Just an FYI

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone get an email from Sterne Kessler requesting them to submit application to their site as well? Was this sent to all those who bid on them? I guess im hoping it was only sent to those who they wish to interview at PLIP, however I could be wrong.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone get an email from Sterne Kessler requesting them to submit application to their site as well? Was this sent to all those who bid on them? I guess im hoping it was only sent to those who they wish to interview at PLIP, however I could be wrong.

I got one as well. I bid on them. Something similar happened last year with McDermott ...I believe it turned out to go to those who bid on them.

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone get an email from Sterne Kessler requesting them to submit application to their site as well? Was this sent to all those who bid on them? I guess im hoping it was only sent to those who they wish to interview at PLIP, however I could be wrong.

I got one as well. I bid on them. Something similar happened last year with McDermott ...I believe it turned out to go to those who bid on them.

Oh well. I guess we will see eventually.

[mrscooter]

2L here, did PLIP last summer, CS background, T30, can take questions if anyone has them. Got offers for both pros and lit from PLIP, but chose a lit group.

[Anonymous User]

So to those of you applying 3L...did the amount of firms seem pitifully low? I mean, 68 options compared to 84 last year - and half are firms like F&L that have like 15 locations they list individually (even though they ask people to apply to one). As a bio major, I found myself applying to many firms outside my background area and my geographical area. Of course, I would totally accept a job someplace I had never been for the salary, firm, and the subject matter. This makes me wonder... does a top thirdish bio major at a T30 school with the patent bar have any chance in hell at this thing? Or am I just shooting in the dark?

Last year I spent over $1000 on travel and hotel so I am wondering what the point is where you realize you aren't wanted because of all the dam CSC/engineering majors and pHds. And, if I miss the mark 3L at loyola, is it time for me to abandon patent?

[KingsCup]

About me: CCN medianish (3.2). MechE UG, significant WE, reg. patent agent
Bidding strategy question: Is it a waste to bid Paul Weiss or Skadden at PLIP? Will they reach down to a 3.2 for IP hiring?

I have no idea how competitive you'd be at those two firms, but as a general rule, I would say that firms emphasize different qualifications for lit than they do pros.

At firms that do pros (pretty much all of the boutiques plus a few GP), you'll be very competitive. These firms will care a lot about your undergrad major, uGPA, and your having passed the patent bar.

Firms that are only looking to hire for lit will care more about your law school GPA. Your school rank is strong, and your other IP credentials are good, so I'd guess you'd have a shot of pulling a screener/CB from top firms, but it depends how deep firms are digging for patent lit associates this year.

Some firms are hiring for specialized tech transactions practice groups. I don't know what they'll be looking for, but I'd guess it would be closer to the patent lit qualifications - T14 students with high law school GPA.

You probably don't have a shot at a V20. Those firms simply don't do enough patent lit (and no pros) to warrant bringing on someone whose credentials are significantly lower than their average just for that mech e degree. Go for the boutiques.

You never know, I was a 2L last year with a 3.15 from a T20, ME, no WE, and I got interviews with firms ranked as highly as Jones Day and Sidley Austin. Going this year as a 3L with much better statistics, also disappointed in the firms interviewing, but there are a number of firms that I would be incredibly happy to work at, and hoping I've got a decent shot at those

[Anonymous User]

Sorry if this has answered, but when exactly do we get results?

[Anonymous User]

In my year (2010) we got our interview schedule the third week of June