Venture Capital/Start-Up Lawyer, AMAA Forum

[Anonymous User]

Looking-to-lateral OP here.

I would love to talk more with you about this by PM/e-mail/phone, but since we are anonymous we can't PM...I don't want to out myself.

[crit_racer]

junior associate here. you can PM me.

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone speak to the ability of an associate to lateral offices within the firm?

E.g., does Cooley allow this seamlessly?

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone speak to the ability of an associate to lateral offices within the firm?

E.g., does Cooley allow this seamlessly?

[Anonymous User]

I don't know why intra-firm lateraling would be any different for these firms than it is for any other firm. This question has been addressed ad nauseam. Short answer--it all depends.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know why intra-firm lateraling would be any different for these firms than it is for any other firm. This question has been addressed ad nauseam. Short answer--it all depends.

You're right, it depends...on the firm. Which is why I asked about those firms specifically.

I know of several firms that intra-firm lateral without so much as a bat of an eye. I know of others that require a compelling justification. I know of still others that make it basically impossible.

Forgive me for asking for insight from someone with personal experience with this process at one of these firms.

[s1m4]

Bumping this thread - any of the OPs still here? What did you end up doing, are you happy with your decision, and where are you now!?

[TheNavigator]

Do you know much about the Boston market? I get the impression that Goodwin and Foley are top shops for that kind of work in Boston.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP, but posted in this thread when it first popped up.

Bumping this thread - any of the OPs still here? What did you end up doing, are you happy with your decision, and where are you now!?

I wound up going in-house, doing general corporate work at a startup (client of the firm, though not one I worked on myself). This was probably the best field of biglaw for me to get into and it worked out from an exit perspective. I've seen people from my group go into startups, mature tech companies, some financial companies/banks (especially those with cap markets experience), etc. Some took some time to find a good landing spot, though, so nothing is guaranteed.

Do you know much about the Boston market? I get the impression that Goodwin and Foley are top shops for that kind of work in Boston.

Things may have changed recently since I've gone in-house and no idea how things have adapted to Covid, but
I think Goodwin generally has a leg up in terms native Boston firms and I'd add Wilmer and probably Latham and Cooley to the Foley tier.

[TheNavigator]

[/quote]
Things may have changed recently since I've gone in-house and no idea how things have adapted to Covid, but
I think Goodwin generally has a leg up in terms native Boston firms and I'd add Wilmer and probably Latham and Cooley to the Foley tier.
[/quote]
Any idea where Ropes and Choate fit into that?

[Anonymous User]

Same anon as above.

Things may have changed recently since I've gone in-house and no idea how things have adapted to Covid, but
I think Goodwin generally has a leg up in terms native Boston firms and I'd add Wilmer and probably Latham and Cooley to the Foley tier.

Any idea where Ropes and Choate fit into that?

Below those firms, I think to the extent you see them as players in the field it's generally on the investor side or (for Ropes) the strategic that's investing (or later buying up the startup), especially in the life science space.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP, but posted in this thread when it first popped up.

Bumping this thread - any of the OPs still here? What did you end up doing, are you happy with your decision, and where are you now!?

I wound up going in-house, doing general corporate work at a startup (client of the firm, though not one I worked on myself). This was probably the best field of biglaw for me to get into and it worked out from an exit perspective. I've seen people from my group go into startups, mature tech companies, some financial companies/banks (especially those with cap markets experience), etc. Some took some time to find a good landing spot, though, so nothing is guaranteed.

Do you know much about the Boston market? I get the impression that Goodwin and Foley are top shops for that kind of work in Boston.

Things may have changed recently since I've gone in-house and no idea how things have adapted to Covid, but
I think Goodwin generally has a leg up in terms native Boston firms and I'd add Wilmer and probably Latham and Cooley to the Foley tier.

Awesome! Was partnership ever a consideration for you? Did it seem like something achievable if you stuck around a bit?

[Anonymous User]

Things may have changed recently since I've gone in-house and no idea how things have adapted to Covid, but
I think Goodwin generally has a leg up in terms native Boston firms and I'd add Wilmer and probably Latham and Cooley to the Foley tier.
[/quote]
Any idea where Ropes and Choate fit into that?
[/quote]

Foley is a step below the top Boston firms. Goodwin, Gunderson, Cooley and Latham are tops (and I think Goodwin and Cooley are probably top in the subgroup). Foley has a pretty decent practice though, and it’s above a lot of the other players in the Boston tech scene.

Ropes and Choate may have clients who do some work in this space, but in general, are not big players.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP, but posted in this thread when it first popped up.

Bumping this thread - any of the OPs still here? What did you end up doing, are you happy with your decision, and where are you now!?

I wound up going in-house, doing general corporate work at a startup (client of the firm, though not one I worked on myself). This was probably the best field of biglaw for me to get into and it worked out from an exit perspective. I've seen people from my group go into startups, mature tech companies, some financial companies/banks (especially those with cap markets experience), etc. Some took some time to find a good landing spot, though, so nothing is guaranteed.

Do you know much about the Boston market? I get the impression that Goodwin and Foley are top shops for that kind of work in Boston.

Things may have changed recently since I've gone in-house and no idea how things have adapted to Covid, but
I think Goodwin generally has a leg up in terms native Boston firms and I'd add Wilmer and probably Latham and Cooley to the Foley tier.

Awesome! Was partnership ever a consideration for you? Did it seem like something achievable if you stuck around a bit?

Same anon as before.

Not really, my goal was really to go in-house from the start, that's one reason I wanted to do corporate instead of lit (though not the only reason; I'm happy to say I haven't touched the Bluebook or Westlaw/Lexis since I graduated law school). But I got burnt out as a midlevel, I was on a couple IPOs at the same time (always a risk when you have a lot of startup clients and the market is roaring) and balancing those with my other work was really exhausting. I think it may have been possible if I was willing to make the sacrifices in terms of family and personal life, judging by who made it at my firm while I was there, at least for non-equity, though I'm not sure I had the personality to be the kind of client development machine that gets you to equity/rainmaker status.

[Anonymous User]

Things may have changed recently since I've gone in-house and no idea how things have adapted to Covid, but
I think Goodwin generally has a leg up in terms native Boston firms and I'd add Wilmer and probably Latham and Cooley to the Foley tier.

Any idea where Ropes and Choate fit into that?
[/quote]

Foley is a step below the top Boston firms. Goodwin, Gunderson, Cooley and Latham are tops (and I think Goodwin and Cooley are probably top in the subgroup). Foley has a pretty decent practice though, and it’s above a lot of the other players in the Boston tech scene.

Ropes and Choate may have clients who do some work in this space, but in general, are not big players.
[/quote]
Do you think Goodwin or Cooley would win out for VC in Boston? It seems Cooley’s #1 overall, but Goodwin probably has a hometown advantage. Also do you have any idea how QOL there may compare to Foley, which by all accounts is great by biglaw standards?

[Anonymous User]

If someone is finishing a summer program at a finance-oriented law firm, would M&A/PE be better than Fund Management for lateralling to a VC/emerging companies practice in a few years?

Are there things I should do in 3L if I want to eventually lateral to VC/emerging companies?

[Anonymous User]

Do you think Goodwin or Cooley would win out for VC in Boston? It seems Cooley’s #1 overall, but Goodwin probably has a hometown advantage. Also do you have any idea how QOL there may compare to Foley, which by all accounts is great by biglaw standards?

Same anon as before.

Again, it's been a couple years since I was too close to this, but I think Goodwin definitely has the edge for life science startups and it's closer for tech startups but still probably edge to Goodwin.

No opinion on QoL, I've only worked at one firm before going in-house and hard to compare with what I hear from friends who have been at other places.

[Anonymous User]

If someone is finishing a summer program at a finance-oriented law firm, would M&A/PE be better than Fund Management for lateralling to a VC/emerging companies practice in a few years?

Are there things I should do in 3L if I want to eventually lateral to VC/emerging companies?

Same anon as before.

Maybe some marginal benefit to M&A, since the dealwork is probably closer to what a VC deal looks like, you gain more general corporate experience, and there will inevitably be some M&A work when your startups get acquired/do deals so some of it will be directly transferable.

I don't think there's really anything to do as a 3L to help lateral down the road. Maybe if there's a class on VC/startup finance or something, that could help a little in terms of showing interest, but by that point it'll be more about your experience.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping thread again for some advice. My hometown is becoming one of the rising "silicon" cities (think Salt Lake City, Phoenix and such) and I have been doing emerging cos. work for a few years now. I have an opportunity to go to a mid-size firm (barely Am law 100) there and do great in terms of work, but the pay is severely under market from what I hear (friend and recruiter in market say about half of Cravath scale, $5k annual bumps, ~$15k-$20k bonus if you bill more, no special covid or market bonuses) but just 1900 hours required (although my friend said most are billing closer to 2,000+). I think my prospects of making partner there would be much much higher especially with my experience and network there but it sounds like I would make more money as an associate on the coast than I would as a partner in that market. I looked around at possible living situations there and while I could stay with my brother for a little bit, the housing options are surprisingly more expensive than expected. Buying will cost me at least $500k and these are like 1600 sq ft and renting an apartment is about $1200+. I will need a car there too.

I want to make good money for the amount I will work and I don't know if I should take advantage of this chance to "get in at the ground floor" as my clients would say to become one of the leading attorneys in this practice in my hometown and any related benefits that would come with that. I probably need to make the move back by the end of 2021 if I'm going to do it.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping thread again for some advice. My hometown is becoming one of the rising "silicon" cities (think Salt Lake City, Phoenix and such) and I have been doing emerging cos. work for a few years now. I have an opportunity to go to a mid-size firm (barely Am law 100) there and do great in terms of work, but the pay is severely under market from what I hear (friend and recruiter in market say about half of Cravath scale, $5k annual bumps, ~$15k-$20k bonus if you bill more, no special covid or market bonuses) but just 1900 hours required (although my friend said most are billing closer to 2,000+). I think my prospects of making partner there would be much much higher especially with my experience and network there but it sounds like I would make more money as an associate on the coast than I would as a partner in that market. I looked around at possible living situations there and while I could stay with my brother for a little bit, the housing options are surprisingly more expensive than expected. Buying will cost me at least $500k and these are like 1600 sq ft and renting an apartment is about $1200+. I will need a car there too.

I want to make good money for the amount I will work and I don't know if I should take advantage of this chance to "get in at the ground floor" as my clients would say to become one of the leading attorneys in this practice in my hometown and any related benefits that would come with that. I probably need to make the move back by the end of 2021 if I'm going to do it.

Assuming you are currently in one of the big locations for this work, one thing I would keep in mind with expanding to a new market is rate pressure. As you know bills can already be an issue in this field but there is going to be higher pressure on that in a secondary market where folks balk at near-NYC biglaw rates. Obviously the safer route is to stay where you are at. The relative merits also in part depends on whether you see growth in the sector as happening everywhere (my personal guess) or leaving certain areas and moving to others (another popular view). Also wonder if you might be able to dip your toes in the water and dabble from distance, or with frequent trips, and see if you get any traction. As I think you can tell I don't see the move as necessarily all roses so would probably not, at least for now, unless you were feeling really energized by taking the risk. It really is a big fish in small farm issue but sounds like lots of questions about the new location.

[Anonymous User]

I’m very interested in this EC/VC practice area but wondering how much “law” there is compared to plain M&A and Cap. Markets?

Is there ever legal research? Writing?

[Anonymous User]

I’m very interested in this EC/VC practice area but wondering how much “law” there is compared to plain M&A and Cap. Markets?

Is there ever legal research? Writing?

No research or memos. Market accepted standard documents. you will need to know enough about other practices tho to be able to refer clients and counsel. Being starts ups they’ll need guidance on everything from labor and employment, IP, licensing and equity compensation and benefits and learn enough about your clients business to know what other issues will be relevant (eg export control laws, privacy compliance). I like the work but 1 hour of ECVC is harder than 1 hour of M&A. The former you could be billing to 3-4 clients in an hour versus 1 in the latter. When you have a lot of clients calling and emailing with day to day questions on top of your financings and other deals, the backlog can build.

[Anonymous User]

As far as exit opportunities for generalist ECVC, is it possible to go in-house at a VC firm? Or are the best exits usually in-house roles (like with cap markets & m&A)? Do funds lawyers go in-house at VC firms?

[Anonymous User]

As far as exit opportunities for generalist ECVC, is it possible to go in-house at a VC firm? Or are the best exits usually in-house roles (like with cap markets & m&A)? Do funds lawyers go in-house at VC firms?

I rarely see ppl go in house to VC firms. The typical route is going in-house to one of your clients. For some ppl like myself, I’m not comfortable with the risk of joining a startup unless it was pretty much pre-IPO stage and at that point they’ll be bringing in pretty experienced folks for top of the totem pole and the pay. But def better hours, more fun, etc.

[Inhousefuture]

""' rarely see ppl go in house to VC firms. The typical route is going in-house to one of your clients. For some ppl like myself, I’m not comfortable with the risk of joining a startup unless it was pretty much pre-IPO stage and at that point they’ll be bringing in pretty experienced folks for top of the totem pole and the pay. But def better hours, more fun, etc."""

1. How hard was it for you to get into your specific group?

2. How hard is it to get an in-house position from your type of firm job?

3. For the In-house positions that are available for say a third year to six year:

A. What are compensation packages like both in terms of salary and equity?

B. For In-house positions, do these positions often come with the ability to experiment with business duties or at least get to watch business folks up close and learn from them?

Thanks