Considering a Move to Texas Forum

[thisiswater]

OP, if you do end up in Dallas I would also look at the M-Streets/Lakewood area, especially if your kids are elementary aged. Lakewood and Stonewall Jackson are both amazing elementary schools, you're a ten minute drive from downtown and within walking or biking distance of groceries and restaurants and coffee shops. Many of the houses are also from the 30s and 40s, in a style called a Dallas Tudor which is very charming and gives the neighborhoods a lot of character. They are, by far, my favorite areas in Dallas.

[Grond]

TCR is to work in house on Legacy and live in Frisco.

[OklahomasOK]

tons that cost a bit above 100k for spacious 2k+ square feet houses with low crime and good schools and all that other suburbia love. Roughly a 30 minute commute without traffic to Downtown

I'm curious where these houses are, because any place with good schools and within 30 minutes of downtown is generally $250K plus.

Plano from experience; Most houses in the area are 200kish but many are around 150k (Non-West Plano but still not east)

I'm sure other suburbs around too but not positive

I grew up in one of these central-plano houses, I can vouch for this. Graduated from Plano Senior High. House prices are about $190K-$300K for just about everything east of Coit to Central.

West Plano is pretty ritzy but very nice. Plano is a great place to raise a family but it is VERY white and conservative and offers very little in the way of "culture," if that interests you.

OP, if you have questions about the area, I'd be happy to help.

[chem!]

OP, I live in Plano, have kids in Plano schools, and taught here for 9 years. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

[Stanford4Me]

Before I go forward, let me disclaim that I only summered in BigLaw in Dallas and now work in a different position. My knowledge as it relates to the market for large firms stems from the connections I maintain within the Dallas BigLaw community.

1. Would I be shooting myself in the foot to leave NY so soon or is the need for NY experience just another way that we comfort ourselves while grunting it out here?

I really can't speak to this other than to say that I don't think Dallas and Houston are as "dead end" as people seem to think. Obviously neither market is doing the level of work that NY is doing, but each market has its strengths that develops smart attorneys who have opportunities throughout Texas and the country based on individual circumstances. (That seems a little fluffy but it's the best I could do)

2. Could you offer some thoughts on Houston vs. Dallas? (I do realize that the fact that I have to ask this question outs me as an outsider). I would be interested in thoughts on legal work as well as thoughts on life in general.

To my knowledge, Houston is really booming on the transactional side from work related to energy/oil. From a broader viewpoint, Houston has always had the larger economy thanks to the immense amount of oil money invested into/coming out of the area. Dallas has a strong market as well, however, and I've had recruiters contact me about junior associate positions with firms here in the area. Work is abundant, and work is good.

W/R/T personal aspects of each city, I should admit that I am a lifelong Dallasite (aside from my time spent in NYC for school) and I have a strong anti-Houston bias.

Houston has a lot going for it--good food, decent arts scene, a large and thriving professional community along with the ancillary benefits such a community brings, and a general population that may feel more "Texan" (though I'm not even sure how to fully explain that). I can't get over the loose zoning laws in Houston that make the city feel like a huge mess at times.

I think others have correctly quipped that Dallas feels, at times, like LA lite. There is a tendency for Dallasites to be flashy and pretentious at times but I think you're seeing a strong counter to that culture, especially in areas of Dallas east of 75 (M-streets, Lakewood, Vickery Park) and south of Downtown/30 (Kessler Park, Bishop Arts). When I talk about Dallas I always tell people it's not a place I would vacation per se, there's not much to do here that would be qualified as touristy (though we do have stuff to do), but it's a fun place to live. Great night life, amazing restaurants, access to major sports, SIX FLAGS OVER TEXAS....etc.

In both cities, cars reign supreme. Plublic transit is available but isn't really the most efficient.

3. Are there any firms in particular that I should avoid?

I can't really say.

4. What kind of exit options are there from Texas if my family ends up hating it? Am I going to be stuck or is a transition to another market possible? (I do understand that eventually we just have to settle down somewhere. I'm just not sure how many wildcards one gets before he becomes a legitimate flight risk.)

All I can provide is anecdotal evidence of friends of mine who have transitioned to other markets--Houston, NYC, LA, SF, ATL, DC, and Chicago. I'm not entirely sure how smooth or easy the transitions were, but they weren't limited by the fact that they worked in Texas.

5. Does anyone have any insights on how living in either Houston or Dallas with a family would compare to living in the NYC region?

In either city you'll be better off when compared to NYC. The good firms in both cities pay NYC market, and it's my understanding (though it's unclear) that the top-top firms also pay bonuses/raises comparable to NYC market (in a new attempt to recruit and retain more talent). If you choose Dallas, I don't think it would be feasible to live in the Park Cities this early on. It's a very expensive area and is generally reserved for more established families (or folks who have inherited money). There are lots of suburban options, including options East of Dallas (Sunnyvale comes to mind) and if you decide to relocate, there are plenty of folks here who can give you insight on the pros/cons of the various burbs.

For the most part, commute time from the northern suburbs into town runs about 30 - 45 minutes depending on traffic conditions. If you're leaving during the bulk of rush hour, this can get worse. I know when I summered, a lot of the associates would come in around 10 and just work later because the traffic difference between 8-9 and 10 was drastic.

[thisiswater]

It is possible to get into HP/UP in a single family home for around 800k which may or may not be possible for your family OP, depending on your partner's employment, debt load, etc. It would save you from having to think about private schools which might be worth it for you.
http://www.trulia.com/property/39708152 ... 25#photo-1
http://www.trulia.com/property/30799376 ... 5#photo-10
http://www.trulia.com/property/18255465 ... 25#photo-9

[rdawkins28]

I grew up in one of these central-plano houses, I can vouch for this. Graduated from Plano Senior High. House prices are about $190K-$300K for just about everything east of Coit to Central.

West Plano is pretty ritzy but very nice. Plano is a great place to raise a family but it is VERY white and conservative and offers very little in the way of "culture," if that interests you.

OP, if you have questions about the area, I'd be happy to help.

Plano, like any other place, is what you make of it. Plano is only 55% white (http://www.city-data.com/city/Plano-Texas.html). Right across the street from Plano Senior High (diagonally) is a large apartment complex with mostly African Americans. So yeh, if you choose to associate with only white conservative people, then that Plano could be the place for you. If you choose to associate with diversified people, Plano could also be the place for you.

OP, I've lived both in the Lakewood area and Plano. PM me if you want more info, especially raising your kids and "culture." Most kids in Plano are more cultured than the above poster thinks.

[Cade McNown]

Houston is gross, hot, and full of fat people.

LOL, so is Dallas buddy.

[Devlin]

Houstonian here.

Kind of echoing another poster but, inside Loop 610 is great. Outside of Loop 610 shit/burbs.

For family I would look in to West University Place ("West U") if you got that Big Law salary. By far nicest part of Houston outside of River Oaks (lol at those home prices). West U is actually it's own city so it has zoning, which for some, lack of zoning is major negative with Houston.

If you are not super adverse to a commute the Memorial area is also very nice and great for families. It's just outside of Loop 610.

[BeenDidThat]

I grew up in one of these central-plano houses, I can vouch for this. Graduated from Plano Senior High. House prices are about $190K-$300K for just about everything east of Coit to Central.

West Plano is pretty ritzy but very nice. Plano is a great place to raise a family but it is VERY white and conservative and offers very little in the way of "culture," if that interests you.

OP, if you have questions about the area, I'd be happy to help.

Plano, like any other place, is what you make of it. Plano is only 55% white (http://www.city-data.com/city/Plano-Texas.html). Right across the street from Plano Senior High (diagonally) is a large apartment complex with mostly African Americans. So yeh, if you choose to associate with only white conservative people, then that Plano could be the place for you. If you choose to associate with diversified people, Plano could also be the place for you.

OP, I've lived both in the Lakewood area and Plano. PM me if you want more info, especially raising your kids and "culture." Most kids in Plano are more cultured than the above poster thinks.

People in Dallas, when trying to show diversity, write things about how there is "a large apartment complex with mostly African Americans" nearby.

Don't go to Dallas, OP. Unless you're a douchebag. Then it will work well.

[Devlin]

I grew up in one of these central-plano houses, I can vouch for this. Graduated from Plano Senior High. House prices are about $190K-$300K for just about everything east of Coit to Central.

West Plano is pretty ritzy but very nice. Plano is a great place to raise a family but it is VERY white and conservative and offers very little in the way of "culture," if that interests you.

OP, if you have questions about the area, I'd be happy to help.

Plano, like any other place, is what you make of it. Plano is only 55% white (http://www.city-data.com/city/Plano-Texas.html). Right across the street from Plano Senior High (diagonally) is a large apartment complex with mostly African Americans. So yeh, if you choose to associate with only white conservative people, then that Plano could be the place for you. If you choose to associate with diversified people, Plano could also be the place for you.

OP, I've lived both in the Lakewood area and Plano. PM me if you want more info, especially raising your kids and "culture." Most kids in Plano are more cultured than the above poster thinks.

People in Dallas, when trying to show diversity, write things about how there is "a large apartment complex with mostly African Americans" nearby.

Don't go to Dallas, OP. Unless you're a douchebag. Then it will work well.

lol nice.